Need US Made Compressor Purchase Help, Going into Analysis-Paralysis!

[haanzel]

I have searched a lot on here already and I think I may be going into analysis-paralysis and could use some help!

I am looking for a good US made compressor. I have searched used on CL and FB MP for a long time and hardly any pop up that is in a price-point I am willing to pay (ie, not going to pay $1200 for a Champion with unknown history when I can get a new one for 1800), or the few that I am interested I miss out on. So I have started to look at new.

Names I have looked at are Saylor Beal, Kellogg American, Champion, Curtis, Devilbliss. I believe Curtis is not all US made anymore. Out of that list, Saylor, Kellogg and Champion are my top choices , so really want to stay with those unless there is a

Wants/needs are below

• budget: I'd like to stay under $15-1700, but I will spring to $2500 for the right one. really want to be closer to the 1700 mark though
• uses will be air tools and my Coats tire machine which requires 15cfm . I can't say I would not use it for paint or blasting some in the future but if I do it will be very infrequent
• min 15cfm, would like more so the tire machine works easily
• phase 1
• USA Made
• low RPMs for longevity
• not loud, quieter the better
• vertical, must be vertical for space savings

Models under consideration.

• Champion VRV5-80- https://www.tptools.com/Champion-5HP-2-Stage-80-Gal-Air-Compressor,6248.html according to this, parts are made in US and foreign countries. Any idea what is foreign? Their website if confusing , may options and I am unsure what series I should be looking at
  
• Saylor- VT-737-80. Having a hard time finding a dealer. I did find Paxon
  
• Kellogg - V8051-335. Having a hard time finding a dealer

Am I missing any others?

Some questions

• Lube- splash lube is ok but if it is worth going with with piston lube for the cost?
• Is an after-cooler/intercooler needed?
• Is a magnetic starter needed

So given the above, what would be the top choice or two?

 

[CGarage]

Eaton

 

[TuxThePenguin]

Am I missing any others?

Jenny GT5B (~$2000) and W5B (~$2500)

 

[driftpin]

Where do you live? Put that below your screen name. Someone local to you may have a 'hook-up.' That could be me. Or, someone else.

 

[haanzel]

Where do you live? Put that below your screen name. Someone local to you may have a 'hook-up.' That could be me. Or, someone else.

Updated, I am in the lonestar state

 

[vanapplebomb]

Saylor Beal is about as American as it gets, but $$$. Pumps and assembly are done here in Michigan. Kellogg is back again, and is mostly American as well. Good proven pump design.

There are several other American assembled units, such as MAT industries Sanborn MFG. they make all their ASME tanks in house And assemble them in Minnesota. Some foreign components, but not a bad budget option in the 60-120 gallon market. Sold under dozens of different names. Industrial Air, Sanborn, Dewalt, Masterforce, Eastwood, MAC Tools just to name a few.

Magnetic starter use depends on the type of motor and the power level required. At a certain point, usually around 5hp, you run into the limit of how much current the pressure switch can hold reliably before failure. Less than 5hp typical just use the pressure switch directly to switch on and off the motor. Those motors will typical have a thermal overload protection switch (TOPS) built in to deal with overload conditions. At 5hp you start to see magnetic starters for power switching to the motors, where the pressure switch just energizes the magnetic starter solenoids. The mag starter assemblies most often have a built in overload protection mechanism, which eliminates the need for a motor with TOPS. This makes the mag starter assembly specific to the motor. In other words, a 7.5 HP motor will trip the overload protection on a mag starter made to pair with a 5hp motor. At 7.5 + hp, all motors will require a mag starter. To my knowledge, nobody makes a pressure switch capable of directly switching a 7.5 hp or larger motor.

 

[Mesozoic]

Quincy is American and makes a variety of models I have experience with, none of which are bad.

IMHO, fitting an aftercooler is always a bonus.

 

[finn]

You have eight wants on the list, and two of them are actually the same, in my eyes, low rpm and low noise.

Almost any vertical compressor out there satisfies the other requirements if you aren’t hung up on American made.

I don’t think a five hp motor is required, and a smaller motor like the 3 hp on my ancient Champion will run the compressor slower, increasing life and reducing noise.

Sounds like light duty to me, and an intercooler certainly isn’t required, nor is pressure lube.

I can vouch for the Champion, although any on your list are overkill.

 

[Trm303]

When I was in your shoes, I was only shopping the used market but it was between Champion, Saylor Beall, and Quincy based off of hours of reading, quality, and parts availability, I just bought whatever good deal I could find first.

Keep an eye out for Speedaire’s on the used market, from my understanding, not all but quite a few of them are rebranded Champions, (can’t speak for brand new) but the Champion pumps are pretty distinct so you should be able to distinguish them fairly easily. I picked mine up for $300 in very good condition when I was unable to find a reasonably priced Saylor Beall or Champion.

Quincy’s IMO are very hard to stumble upon for a good deal but they do pop up, the comparable model to the ones previously listed would be a 325. They have been making them forever so if you continue your search in the used market, keep in mind the record of change number following the model number which can tell you how old the unit is. The new ones are in the 100’s and the single digits go back the 50’s, if you want a newer one, as long as it’s blue you should be pretty good.


Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[Monza Harry]

I bought a used Ingersoll T30 (5HP) back in '95, prices were pretty high back then, (I paid 1/2 of new including the brand new Baldor 5HP motor and starter, pump had been rebuilt and the previous owner discovered that he needed a bigger unit and traded it in on his new one) this one is definitely all American built. I am very happy with the purchase. My compressor was rated at 23 CFM @ 100# I believe the newer ones are globally sourced and are rated at a lower CFM. As to noise level it is one if not the quietest piston compressor I have heard, but it is probably close to 30 years old, and things have changed at most companies to survive today's marketplace. I'll suggest that you find a good local(ish) industrial supplier and talk with them, they will steer you in a good direction. Harry

 

[vanapplebomb]

Just a quick note about Quincy and IR, staying within the posters budget for a new compressor, you are lookin at the QT series Quincy or the consumer grade IR stuff... both of which are pretty poor value for money in my view. You pay for the name. The QT5 assembly quality control has taken a dive as of late. The IR consumer grade compressors have less than impressive hotter running pumps with poor efficiency. Most are Indian made. If it were my own money on the line, I wouldn’t bother with either of them. Also, if an American company is important to you, IR is not American. They moved headquarters to Europe some years ago now.

Seriously, look into a used Saylor Beal or Kellogg. With SB still chugging away here in Michigan, and the Kellogg name back in business with the original pump design, parts are easy to come by, and they should outlast you even is used heavily. For new compressors in your budget, MAT Industries Sanborn MFG is good value for what you get. The V5048055 is a good entry level 5HP 80 gallon unit. The V5018055 is a step up with a mag starter and Baldor motor.

 

[Mesozoic]

I’m happy with my Quincy QT-54, which is a very recent addition to my garage. I got it on sale for a hair over $1K and immediately installed an aftercooler. The unit is 100% American made, including the Baldor motor. I would recommend it. We have a Quincy screw at my office and that thing is also amazing, but totally overkill for residential use.

 

[Iron Beaver]

I think the best value in cheaper compressors is Rolair. Others may disagree.

 

[Mesozoic]

I think the best value in cheaper compressors is Rolair. Others may disagree.

Looks good. Come to think of it, I've seen many subcontractors performing jobs using Rolair compressors. What's the price point on a 60 gal upright 2-stage? I couldn't find pricing anywhere.

 

[redmondjp]

As stated above, you can find a Speedaire-branded Champion, most often with a 3 phase motor, for relatively little, and then put a single-phase motor on it. I just bought an 80 gallon, 2-stage with the Champion RV15a pump on it for $180 for my brother, but he already had a single phase motor for it. Speedaire also uses Campbell Hausfeld compressors (you can ID by looking at the pump).

Businesses typically use 3 phase power, and typically buy new compressors. So you can often find a good deal on a used compressor with a 3 phase motor.

 

[haanzel]

Appreciate all the responses. Speedaire was on my list too, forgot to put that down. That is a Champion? I do see a lot more Ph3 compressors, and have thought about swapping it with a Ph1 motor. Guess I can figure out what motor to add when/if I cross that bridge.

 

[mille755]

You may also consider using a variable frequency drive to take your single phase and convert it to 3ph. Generally good new vfd's are very expensive, more so than a good new or used single phase motor. But used industrial grade vfd's can be cheap, just remember that if the vfd is not rated for single phase input you must derate the output by a factor of 1.73.

 

[redmondjp]

Appreciate all the responses. Speedaire was on my list too, forgot to put that down. That is a Champion? I do see a lot more Ph3 compressors, and have thought about swapping it with a Ph1 motor. Guess I can figure out what motor to add when/if I cross that bridge.

'Speedaire' is nothing more than a brand name used by Grainger - all Speedaire compressors are made by other existing compressor manufacturers, but painted for, and marketed by Grainger. It's the least-expensive way to buy a Champion compressor that is painted a different color - not all Speedaire compressors are made by Champion - you have to look at the pump to ID the manufacturer.

 

[MacMcMacmac]

The amount of changes, mergers and acquisitions in the compression industry over the past decade has been pretty amazing.

IR is based in Ireland now.

Curtis is owned by Fu Sheng. They also bought the rights to some of the smaller Elliott PAP line of turbocompressors.

Some Quincys are ABAC pumps out of Italy. Rolair pumps are as well. ABAC is one of many Atlas Copco brands, as is Quincy. They are Swedish company. Which builds most of its stuff in Belgium. They do have a turbocompressor plant in Voorheesville NY. They also own Chicago Pneumatic and Grimmer Schmidt.


Kelloggs are, or were, made by LaPlante Compressors in Hong Kong, as are all of those Saylor Beall knockoffs. Maybe they have a plant in the US now, I'm not sure. Barring import tariffs, I don't see why they would. LaPlante claims they were making Kelloggs even when they were a CompAir division. The workmanship on later Kelloggs compared to the older ones makes me believe this was so.

Gardner Denver and IR merged a few months ago. Who knows what that will mean for their products going forward.

GD is the parent company of Champion and CompAir. This is why you can buy a Hydrovane with Champion written on it. And a Champion with Gardner Denver written on it.

All one big happy family. So far. Probably lots or "rationalization" (i.e. layoffs) coming for a lot of working folks.

 

[SMK_72]

I am looking for a used Saylor Beall 705 (5hp) compressor. However, I know there are SB knockoff's out there. Does anyone know what to look for on the compressor to identify a real Saylor Beall 705 versus a knock off china compressor? I have seen several on Marketplace/Craigslist that look exactly like SB's compressors but the units don't have the SB logo on the tank or compressor. I have seen Stewart Warner, AMP, and others without brand names that have compressor's that looks like a Saylor Beall 705's. Did SB make compressors for other brands?

 

[MacMcMacmac]

SB does not make anything for other companies. SB will have MADE IN USA embossed on the crankcase, although earlier ones may not.

Knockoffs will have metric fasteners, which is not a simple thing to eyeball certainly.

Knockoff pumps will have a part number embossed over the filter inlet. SB will have a part number embossed over one of the intercooler ports between two raised ridges.

SB:

Knockoff:

SB cooling fins on the head look thicker and more shallow. This is because there is a lot more metal below the valves than the knockoff. The knockoff has two very prominent separate flanges for the intercooler, the SB has a lot more metal between them.

The rear bearing carrier on a SB will have a part number just below the crankcase breather port. The squared part of the case is in in is also wider than the knockoff.

The back of the crankcase of the 705 will also have a nicely milled surface over almost the entire end of the case.

View media item 61603
Some of these features may be different or missing on older pumps.

You may be able to find distinguishing part numbers on any pumps you find. SB numbers seem to be pretty prominent, so that should help.

 

[TonyJ]

One other very easy to spot difference is the Sb does not have the 3/4 inch square plugs in the top of the intercooler. I have a Sb clone 705 and a original Sb 705 and also a original 707. The clone was on a AMP brand compressor

 

[TonyJ]

Real Sb 705. Small hole is for the interstage pop off valve. Clones have two 3/4” plugs in the top of the intercooler

 

[SMK_72]

Thank you MacMcMacmac and TonyJ. This information is very helpful. I am going to look at this Stewart Warner compressor today and will look for your clues. I suspect that this is going to be a clone. The owner bought this new in the late 80's.

 

[SMK_72]

Looks like my image links are not showing. I think it's because I am a new member.

 

[SMK_72]

I need 5 posts before I can post images (this is number 5)

 

[SMK_72]

Do you think this is a real Saylor Beall 705 or a clone?

 

[SMK_72]

Still no images?
https://photos.app.goo.gl/xJTSC5QEFwrfFf3fA

 

[SMK_72]

https://photos.app.goo.gl/5XY6h7yYJhYsbnP98
https://photos.app.goo.gl/1LQ5mZQjy43V1UFs9

 

[SMK_72]

I had the owner send me a photo of the head. It looks like a SB head casting with ribs and a part number over the center port and no part number over the intake. But, it has the pipe plugs on top of the intercooler...???

https://photos.app.goo.gl/yzxwwfZHRPVvjj9N7

 

[Ing3018]

Do you think this is a real Saylor Beall 705 or a clone?

The intercooler casting is wrong. Note- Sometimes you see the two plugs on a genuine SB intercooler located on sides of the casting at the bottom. But, the head looks convincing. There is an long aftercooler sort-of discharge tube looping behind the pump to the tank, which does not look original.
Who knows what may have been done over the years to keep this compressor going....
These things are easy to rebuild, if needed. Figure that into your budget if your inspection shows the need. Run the pump from zero to 175 psi. Should fill up in 6-7 minutes on a 80 gallon tank.

 

[TonyJ]

Those are the 2 3/4 plugs that I was talking about. That’s a dead giveaway that it’s a clone. And just because it’s a clone doesn’t mean it’s a bad pump and not worth having. My clone will do the same as the original and it is even quieter

 

[TonyJ]

Another difference that I have found which can’t be seen without taking them apart is the way the valves are made. The OG 705 the valves have 4 long slots that the air passes thru and the clone has a bunch of holes that the air passes thru

 

[Ing3018]

Also, some of the 705 clones have a finned aftercooler. Those are easy to spot. Example:
https://www.surpluscenter.com/Air-Pneumatics/Air-Compressors-Vacuum-Pumps/Belt-Driven-Compressors/23-CFM-Air-Compressor-Two-Stage-5-HP-CI5-4-1066.axd

 

[SMK_72]

Thank you all for your help. I am going to pass on this one and keep looking for a real Saylor Beall. I agree that this compressor would probably get the job done, but I used to work in a US industry that was devastated by China product and I would really struggle with knowing it was made in China.

Thanks again, and I now know what to look out for during my search.

 

[Crazyhorse]

Those are the 2 3/4 plugs that I was talking about. That’s a dead giveaway that it’s a clone. And just because it’s a clone doesn’t mean it’s a bad pump and not worth having. My clone will do the same as the original and it is even quieter

I believe the older Saylor Beall's also had the plugs on top.
This one is listed as a 67. I have a Stewart Warner branded compressor from the late 70's judging by the tank date, and I'm pretty confident they were real Saylor Beall's. The block, cylinders, head, and unloader all match casting number wise, and design detail wise match photos identical also. The only difference seems to be the paint color is a little different.

 

[Iron Beaver]

Looks good. Come to think of it, I've seen many subcontractors performing jobs using Rolair compressors. What's the price point on a 60 gal upright 2-stage? I couldn't find pricing anywhere.

This is a very late reply, I know, but...

Two-Stage Air Compressors

Shop Two-Stage Air Compressors on Ferguson Home

www.aircompressorsdirect.com

They seem to have gone up as late. Probably because Chinook (the pump OEM) is in a country that may have been hit fairly hard by the pandemic

 

[MacMcMacmac]

Hold on to your hats. If inflation was being measured the same way it was in the early 70's we'd already be in double digit territory.

 

[Walkers]

One thing you mentioned that hasn’t been addressed is blasting. For you tire machine, it can run off the static pressure in the tank, it doesn’t use 15cfm for long periods. Everything else is intermittent. Body sanders can really **** some air too, but the biggest thing by far is the blasting. 25cfm is even pretty limited for blasting. If you really want to do blasting you should be looking at motor size of 7.5 horse (should be rated at about 5500 watts). Anything smaller and you will do a lot of waiting for your compressor to catch up.

 

[Honch]

Wants/needs are below

• budget: I'd like to stay under $15-1700, but I will spring to $2500 for the right one. really want to be closer to the 1700 mark though
  • Eaton 5 HP Quiet Air Compressor, Single Phase, 2 Stage, 80 Gallon Tank, Vertical, Industrial Plus PS05V080I1 $2,400.00
  • Eaton 7.5 HP Quiet Air Compressor, Pressure Lubricated, 2 Stage, Single Phase, V4, 80 Gallon Tank, Vertical, Industrial PES07V080V1 $2599.00
  • Both of these are available cheaper if you depending on how you spec them, silent air, auto drain etc.
• uses will be air tools and my Coats tire machine which requires 15cfm . I can't say I would not use it for paint or blasting some in the future but if I do it will be very infrequent
  • If you can afford to overbuy on the size, a big compressor underused is less problematic than a small one overused.
• min 15cfm, would like more so the tire machine works easily
  • 5 HP = 17 SCFM @ 175 PSI / 19 SCFM @ 100 PSI
  • 7.5 HP = 31 SCFM @ 100 PSI
• phase 1
  • Both are single phase
• USA Made
  • Eaton Compressor maintains engineering, service support and manufacturing in the USA.
• low RPMs for longevity
  • 5 HP = 800 pump RPM
  • 7.5 HP = 860 pump RPM
• not loud, quieter the better
  • Eaton claims a 25% reduction in DB for both
• vertical, must be vertical for space savings
  • Both are vertical

Eaton Polar Air sells only from their site, the box store versions of these compressors are branded EMAX. They also make some other rebranded compressors with very similar specs, Flexilla, Badboy etc. From my searching the Polar Air's are cheaper than the rebranded versions and come with a 5 year non-prorated warranty. One of the reasons they are cheaper is the shipping is on top of the price, where the box stores have it tagged on. They do allow you to pick them up at the factory to save the shipping costs.

Based on your wants/needs they are probably worth a look.