Need your opinion plz

[lilscorpion]

I have a good HVAC company that I’ve been using and Ive been given really good service (or so I think) for a while now. We have an annual service agreement where they come and inspect our system prior to summer and winter, do basic clean out, and make sure we’re ready for the approaching weather. Very few fixes have been necessary and the techs act and behave like pros.

A month ago I found out that a 6’ duct which attaches directly to the trunk isn’t actually connected to the trunk. So we have essentially a 4x10 hole leaking cool or hot air directly into the ceiling cavity in the basement.

Pre summer cleaning a week ago - I pointed out the issue to the tech doing our cleaning and he worked me up a quote. I’m responsible for cutting a hole in the basement ceiling so they can remove the 6’ duct. They do have to remove part of the trunk to get it reattached. During the cleaning they were planning to install a smart thermostat (Ecobee). The quote - $119 fixed (like no matter what). When they went to install it they weren’t totally sure how to replace the Honeywell one that was there because it has an intermediate board.

The quote I received - two line items:
1) re-attach the duct: 2 techs x 2 hours. $1200
2) install digital thermostat - $119 + $219 for requiring an incorrectly installed humidifier.

So I called for clarification. Yes, for the duct re-attachment they are charging $300 per hour but it’s “fixed rate and includes all materials”. For the thermostat they’re charging the additional $219 to remove the intermediary module and “make the wiring look nice” and to throughly test to ensure it works. They do use a quoting system so it turns out they created the itemized quote to fit what they think they should charge vs items that reflect the work. Ok, whatever.

My issues - $300 per hour to refit a duct where I provide access? This isn’t about how much work it is, it’s the hourly rate. Maybe they’ll need to provide duct dope or a little tin and screws

Issues with the Thermostat install - they said “$119 fixed rate” but now they need to test my system specially to make sure it works correctly and charge me more to make the wiring look good.

Should I feel anything other than offended that a company I have come to trust and have never challenged before would give me such a quote?

 

[PelicanPines]

That's something... if I made the hole to fix it... I would fix it better than they could... myself. Then patch the hole and move on.

That rate is crazy.

 

[fastevo9]

I personally would find another HVAC company immediately. I worked in the field and my employers rates for residential in NYC were never that high. You have a contract with them I would like to assume they could work out a tighter rate for labor not covered under the contract. Then there is the fact that they inspect your system every year and never caught this? The biggest kicker is they want you to do all of the hard labor then they will take 2 seconds to attach a hard duct with screws or a flex duct with a zip tie. Total BS in my opinion.

 

[nadogail]

What was your annual service agreement written on? They seem to feel it was written on Toilet Paper because they are treating you like what we wipe up with Toilet Paper.

Time for a "Come To Jesus" meeting with whomever is managing that outfit.

 

[Jackfre]

Must say it is a good thing you asked for a price beforehand rather than having to fight it out later. I would tell the service manager that both ends of the material are there and simply need reattaching. Ask him to get out of the "Flat Rate" book and take care of a good customer. If they can't/won't you then have a decision to make. The thermostat issue has some merit. Thermostats are no longer like buying a T87 and connecting two wires. I think only geniuses can install stats today.

 

[lilscorpion]

Must say it is a good thing you asked for a price beforehand rather than having to fight it out later. I would tell the service manager that both ends of the material are there and simply need reattaching. Ask him to get out of the "Flat Rate" book and take care of a good customer. If they can't/won't you then have a decision to make. The thermostat issue has some merit. Thermostats are no longer like buying a T87 and connecting two wires. I think only geniuses can install stats today.

Hopefully he’ll call me tomorrow though I’m now not expecting much. You all have pretty much confirmed my reaction was in line.

Regarding the thermostat - they did say initially that the install was “fixed rate” and he said it multiple times. Had he said “we charge per hour” then I get it be he didn’t. He said flat rate. I don’t feel like I’m taking advantage either. If my furnace was was a 2 wire install and it took them 10 minutes would they have charged me less than the fixed rate? If the answer is no, they’re gouging OR they don’t want my business.

I personally would find another HVAC company immediately. I worked in the field and my employers rates for residential in NYC were never that high. You have a contract with them I would like to assume they could work out a tighter rate for labor not covered under the contract. Then there is the fact that they inspect your system every year and never caught this? The biggest kicker is they want you to do all of the hard labor then they will take 2 seconds to attach a hard duct with screws or a flex duct with a zip tie. Total BS in my opinion.

Think they use the contract as a mechanism to get into your house and get work when they’re not busy. I pay $20 per month to get 2 inspection calls a year.

There have been 5 companies to inspect our system since we purchased the house 12 years ago. None of them caught this. To be fair the inspector who did the initial inspection though, he did catch it kinda. Said airflow at that vent was less than he expected.

That's something... if I made the hole to fix it... I would fix it better than they could... myself. Then patch the hole and move on.

That rate is crazy.

Agreed. I’m going to end up doing it myself. I’m more than capable, I just figured it might be worth paying them because they could do it faster.

What was your annual service agreement written on? They seem to feel it was written on Toilet Paper because they are treating you like what we wipe up with Toilet Paper.

Time for a "Come To Jesus" meeting with whomever is managing that outfit.

If you ask them, the annual service agreement gives me 2 cleanings and a discount in service. In this case, the quote actually says that my member saved me $212.41. Guess they actually thought the repair should have cost $1412.41. Lol

The manager attempted to call me and left a less than enthusiast message. When I attempted to return his call I got VM.

 

[BillK]

A month ago I found out that a 6’ duct which attaches directly to the trunk isn’t actually connected to the trunk. So we have essentially a 4x10 hole leaking cool or hot air directly into the ceiling cavity in the basement.

My first question is how did you find this out ??

Next would be....if you have the skills to make access to it why dont you just reattach it yourself ????

Their price for doing it sounds outrageous but without some pictures to see what is really involved it might not be that bad at all.

As far as installing a digital thermostat goes ...... I just replaced mine a few weeks ago and it pretty much was a 20 minute job ? Take the old one off the wall, put the new one in its place and hook up the wires ?

How about some pictures ??

 

[lilscorpion]

My first question is how did you find this out ??



Next would be....if you have the skills to make access to it why dont you just reattach it yourself ????



Their price for doing it sounds outrageous but without some pictures to see what is really involved it might not be that bad at all.



As far as installing a digital thermostat goes ...... I just replaced mine a few weeks ago and it pretty much was a 20 minute job ? Take the old one off the wall, put the new one in its place and hook up the wires ?



How about some pictures ??

I’m about to post up the bigger story in another projects thread but I’ll do the short version here - our house’s hvac is jacked. No returns upstairs where the bedrooms are. We’ve had so many companies out because we’ve been looking for ideas on how to solve the problem. The shirt story is there have been only 2 reasonable recommendations:

1) add a big return up through the middle of my garage (no Fn way)

2) put a second unit in the attic - > $10k

We’ve learn what settings we need to have in order to keep it cool enough throughout the day and have been living with it. Three weeks ago we decided to re-tile the fireplace. After demo exposed behind the fireplace I realized that there was a return immediately below my master bedroom wall. After a little drywall cutting I realized the studs between the two floors lined up. No Fn way again. I spent the next 2 weekends in the walls and attic turning it into a return, then moved the floor vents in the master, etc.

On the last day, while my wife was thinking I had graduated HVAC school now, reminded me that the vent in the 1/2 bath in the main floor has never worked. So I took a look. I dropped my cell phone into the duct and took a video.

Clearly the duct was mis-aligned about 4 feet in but there’s this round green thing in there. WTF? My basement is fully finished except in the until it’s room. After having gotten behind the fireplace I knew where all the pipes now are so I went into the into the utility room to see if I could find it up in the joists.

My main setup has a trunk and return running under/over.

I had just learned that these two feed ducts go up to the bedroom but I knew that the six connected one has to be right here somewhere because the bathroom is right above me.

To set context, there’s about 15 lbs of **** in a 5 lb can right here. Red arrows are the master ducts. At the end of the blue arrow is the AC coolant, exhaust vent to attic for the water heater, the gas line in, and water lines.

What I had never noticed until then was there’s another feed above all of that in the cavity.

When I popped my head up in the hole, what do I see? A takeoff box, which is supposed to be physically connected to the trunk, is free from the trunk and not connected to the feed duct. (In the pic it’s just sitting there because I just re-aligned it kinda until it can be fixed).

While I was realigning it I found out what the green thing was...it’s a tennis ball. Bet one of the dogs lost it down the vent when we were redoing the tile in the half bath 8 years ago.

There’s no direct (enough) access to reattach it. Camera makes it look like there’s more access than there is. After some contemplating, the only way I could figure getting to the duct is through the trunk.

It has sheet metal hems all the way around. I could have given it a go but the trusted HVAC company was already planning to be here in a few days so I thought I might ask them to quote it since they’d know the easiest way.

During the visit, the guy politely pointed out the easy way. Cut an access hole in the ceiling, right under the vent in the bathroom, and slide it out reconnect everything, and slide it back in as one piece. Then they can remove the trunk as a whole unit and fasten/seal it from the inside.

At the time of the visit, he was thinking 2 people, 3 hours each. I though he was crazy. Quote came back 2 hours, 2 people...but $300/hour. I get it could take them 2 hours (after casually having a coffee to wake up first) but I don’t feel like the work justifies the rate.

One upside to the visit is that the tech pointed out that there’s an ~ 6” wide by 10” long access hole that was cut at some point back in the red circle. I think I can remove the exhaust duct (green line) and get my hands up in there enough to re-attach the takeoff from the inside.

So I’ll cut the hole in the drywall and fix it myself. I’m also going to time myself and see if I can do it in 2 hours without a helper. F-them. [emoji857]

The thermostat issue...it isn’t difficult Peres but our system ain’t simple. There’s an intermediate module that interacts with a slightly sophisticated thermostat upstairs via 3-wires (input on left). The module translates out to the various accessories (on the right). The Ecobee back maps to the modlue outputs on the right...sorta.

Our system has a humidifier, a heat pump, and a little elf (I think). Can I figure it out? Probably. I’m a little concerned I’ll kiss something though just because I don’t know. E.g. the heat pump can’t run under a certain outdoor temp. The smart thermostat will use internet to figure that out and the old system had an actual temp prob outside. Do I only know enough to get in trouble? Or get it done? Since our trusts HVAC company had a fixed $119 smart thermostat install it seemed like I could let the pros do it. I guess they meant “fixed” as in “if and only if it’s easy”.

As I suspected, the tech lead didn’t even try to call me back today. Again, no issue with paying for labor, just not paying through the nose for labor.

 

[Innovate1]

They could have at least taken you out for dinner and/or drinks first...

 

[Dumber than lumber]

So flat rate is $600?
Or ....? What is the price ?

 

[BillK]

Good lord that looks like a mess. Makes me appreciate my straight 85 or 90+ gas furnace and no frills R22 AC system. No variable speed fans or compressors etc etc etc. It will probably need replacing in the next few years and the same thing will go right back in its place.

Seems like this stuff is getting worse than the new cars. At what point do the maintenance costs outweigh the extra efficiency ?? I think the cars are already way past that point.

 

[lilscorpion]

So flat rate is $600?
Or ....? What is the price ?

I’ll let you guys read it. Simple - sounds like everything is wrong or general work. I’m flat disappointed. No call back by the lead tech, no attempt by the office. Nothing. Bummer, I liked Nytech.

Thermostat install, per the tech, would be no more than $119. He said it multiple times while he was here. The quote? Thermostat install is explicitly “basic” @ $119 but they added fixing “improperly wired humidifier” to beef the price. When I asked what was wrong with how it was wired (it’s 2 wires and works perfectly) the tech said “oh that’s just for us to make the wiring all nice and test that it works”.

 

[lilscorpion]

Good lord that looks like a mess. Makes me appreciate my straight 85 or 90+ gas furnace and no frills R22 AC system. No variable speed fans or compressors etc etc etc. It will probably need replacing in the next few years and the same thing will go right back in its place.

Seems like this stuff is getting worse than the new cars. At what point do the maintenance costs outweigh the extra efficiency ?? I think the cars are already way past that point.

Yeah the HE stuff adds some complexity but most of what I’ve shown is basic refrigerant and duct stuff. It’s the builders that are clowns. I swear they don’t even consider HVAC when building the house and it’s make it work when they get to it. It yes...it’s a mess.