Network cables, telephone, alarm system - conduit

[Shovelhead]

New construction.
Building Shop first.

Want to bury some conduit from shop towards house pad so they can hold hands with:
telephone
internet
security system
intercom
and ???

I'm thinkin two 3/4" and a 1" run. And a spare 3/4 or 1".
But,
I don't know baby **** from apple butter about ethernet cables or security systems, cameras, etc. and how many required to do what I "may" want to do.

What you tech type folk say?
How many and what size conduit would you run for this awful predicament?

Pretty sure one CAT5 or 6 cable can take care of telephone and internet, right?

Bear in mind, this will be an all steel building with ZERO cell service. In the woods.

Thanks

 

[jeepxj]

you want a 1" conduit buried. there is plenty of discussion between ethernet or fiber out to a shop.

but whatever you put in there will cover all network needs. one active run. i'd pull a backup just to be safe and call it a day. then use a switch in the shop to split it up to all the device needs.

 

[lonestardiver]

Run 4 cat 5 for phone and internet and a spare pull cord to make any additions easier.

You’ll have 2 in service and 2 spares.

Regarding security and intercom, not sure what the requirements are for those. Again run spares and a pull cord for additional lines in the future.

 

[Shovelhead]

To be more clear. maybe.

Question is not what type of cable/wires to use right now.
Question is what size and how many conduit runs to bury.
Also, what about interference between the different services I listed.
Can they all be in the same conduit?
Separate conduit in the same ditch?
Separate conduit in the same ditch with a minimal amount of spacing between each conduit?

Thanks

** I'm very familiar with running conduit and pull rope/string, pulling in a string for future, etc.
Substation Maintenance for many years.
near 40 yrs at the "light company"

 

[jeepxj]

1" is plenty for communication wiring.

1 is plenty

no interference issues for copper or fiber. you need to use fiber if physical distance between buildings is over 250' or so.

can be in same ditch as power/water/sewer. just put them on opposite sides of the ditch. a few inches is plenty.

 

[Jim greengo]

Do yourself a favor and put your electrical related stuff in a seperate ditch.
And keep sewer and water as far apart as possible ,if they have to be in the same ditch put 1 of them on a shelf atleast a couple of feet away.
As far as pipe size goes 1 1/2" isn't that much more expensive than 1" ,and it's a lot easier to work with.

 

[Shovelhead]

Thanks Jeep.

Buildings will be about 30’ apart.

 

[jeepxj]

by the time this thread hits page 5 you will be digging a full tunnel with enough internet capacity for all of north america.

 

[Shovelhead]

Do yourself a favor and put your electrical related stuff in a seperate ditch.
And keep sewer and water as far apart as possible ,if they have to be in the same ditch put 1 of them on a shelf atleast a couple of feet away.
As far as pipe size goes 1 1/2" isn't that much more expensive than 1" ,and it's a lot easier to work with.

Electric Service to the house will definitely be in its own ditch.
I will have another ditch running parallel with the water line.

What do you consider “electrical related stuff”?
I would think a security system and intercom would be electrical.
The network cable would be Comm cable.

Does the Comm/network cable need to be in a separate ditch?

 

[mcbane]

Smaller than a highway tunnel but I went with 1-1/4 because the pipe didn’t cost more than 1” at the time. Maybe price conduit before deciding. To an extent, bigger is better because it is always hard, when you change your mind later, to pull another wire through the already partially populated conduit.


Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[Shovelhead]

by the time this thread hits page 5 you will be digging a full tunnel with enough internet capacity for all of north america.

LOL

I can believe that.
Too bad everybody posting didn’t have to provide their credentials for said topic.

I’ll prolly end up putting in what I initially said and I know nothing about network cables.

 

[Shovelhead]

Smaller than a highway tunnel but I went with 1-1/4 because the pipe didn’t cost more than 1” at the time. Maybe price conduit before deciding. To an extent, bigger is better because it is always hard, when you change your mind later, to pull another wire through the already partially populated conduit.


Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

Shouldn’t be a reason to change my mind if it’s planned properly from the get go.
I’d rather have two smaller conduits dedicated for a specific service and a spare, than a big *** pipe with the thought of pulling everything I may think of through it later.

 

[jeepxj]

LOL

I can believe that.
Too bad everybody posting didn’t have to provide their credentials for said topic.

I’ll prolly end up putting in what I initially said and I know nothing about network cables.

i'd rather see a bigger single conduit run than 2 smallers personally. then you can pull pre-made cables thru making it even easier to install.

my credentials are a holiday inn express stay last year and a daytime job in internet plumbing. my side gig is essentially fixing redneck wifi setups like yours.

 

[Shovelhead]

my side gig is essentially fixing redneck wifi setups like yours.

Well yer my huckleberry, almost.
Part hippie, part redneck, and always a suspect.

Good point about the terminated cables.
Been wondering what chy-waneeze instruction paper and Ethernet crimpers I may wind up with.

 

[jeepxj]

Just buy premade Fiber or copper. Plug n play.

 

[MFortie]

I specify minimum 1-1/4” conduit runs for any underground technology runs. Even if it’s only one cable. Easier to pull and the contractors are happier...

YMMV

 

[jeepxj]

I specify minimum 1-1/4” conduit runs for any underground technology runs. Even if it’s only one cable. Easier to pull and the contractors are happier...

YMMV

no no no. he needs at least this big for a single run. speccing anything less is just a waste of time

 

[jeepxj]

did you consider using a wireless local connection? These days, the current Wireless moderns are pretty strong signal and it always reduces a lot the overhead of putting all the cables and the risk of those get deteriorated

if he has a trench open for power its trivial to put in another run of conduit for networking low voltage. I do agree if its already closed up then a PtP wireless bridge is a great solution.

 

[MFortie]

no no no. he needs at least this big for a single run. speccing anything less is just a waste of time

?

Sounds like you’re saying the same thing - nothing smaller than 1-1/4”...

 

[Shovelhead]

yes, wireless is a great option for some folks. Also requires mounting an antenna to my metal building and line of sight, and signal loss, and...
Have not ruled it out. But if it ended up not satisfying me, I'd have 12' of concrete porch to bust out to run a conduit.
This is all about having conduit in place before concrete is poured that will block access.

Thanks

 

[Denwood]

You are only running 30 feet. Bury 2 x 1.5" for data and call it done. That will give you plenty for anything you're doing. You can run security sensors, intercom etc. over CAT5 or 6 which gives you lot's of extra pairs for security, automation hubs, POE cams, WIFI AP, etc. I have two CAT6 to my shop, and wish I had a few more so my POE cams could be powered from the house vs in the shop.

Then search here for all the spirited threads on fibre vs CAT6

 

[jeepxj]

yes, wireless is a great option for some folks. Also requires mounting an antenna to my metal building and line of sight, and signal loss, and...
Have not ruled it out. But if it ended up not satisfying me, I'd have 12' of concrete porch to bust out to run a conduit.
This is all about having conduit in place before concrete is poured that will block access.

Thanks

run an 8 pack of 2" runs under the concrete just in case.

 

[Shovelhead]

run an 8 pack of 2" runs under the concrete just in case.

yer killin me man

 

[theoldwizard1]

Do you really want a "plain old telephone" (POT) wire (CAT 3) ? Very few local phone comanies will even sell you that service unless you live out in the boonies !

Security systems are almost all WiFi or Ethernet (wire) based.

Almost everything now runs on WiFi. The problem with WiFi is distance. There are several ways to solve this. For a second building, I would run direct burial CAT 6 rated cable through a 1" conduit. Plug it into the back of you modem (most modems still have 2 "hardwired" ports) and then, in the other building into a wireless access point (WAP)/router.

If you still have cable TV (dying fast, replaced by WiFi and streaming) you can run a RG6 wire from a powered splitter, through the conduit. Don't forget to leave a pull string !

 

[kaffine]

Electric Service to the house will definitely be in its own ditch.
I will have another ditch running parallel with the water line.

What do you consider “electrical related stuff”?
I would think a security system and intercom would be electrical.
The network cable would be Comm cable.

Does the Comm/network cable need to be in a separate ditch?

Security and intercom can be run with the network cable.

 

[reader2580]

I just ran two shielded Cat6 cables through a 3/4" conduit about 190 feet. No real issues pulling the cables through my conduit. I did shielded because the conduit is on top of another conduit with 100 amp service in it.

These cables are going to a freestanding solar install. I can't really do fiber as I don't have power out there for a transceiver. I don't have any breaker slots open there to add a breaker for a receptacle.

 

[NockOn]

I just ran two shielded Cat6 cables through a 3/4" conduit about 190 feet. No real issues pulling the cables through my conduit. I did shielded because the conduit is on top of another conduit with 100 amp service in it.

These cables are going to a freestanding solar install. I can't really do fiber as I don't have power out there for a transceiver. I don't have any breaker slots open there to add a breaker for a receptacle.

I hope you terminated with shielded RJ45 and using surge protection like this RiteAV - Outdoor Ethernet POE+/RJ-45 Surge Protector (Shielded) for Thunder & Lightning Protection (Gigabyte) https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B00FY7GMEW/?tag=atomicindus04-20


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[nadogail]

When planning a conduit run that you will own and use; keep in mind that bigger is better.

 

[Innovate1]

Best to check with the AHJ on any particular requirements... I had a track hoe on site for other stuff so it was a 24" ditch with power on one side, gas on the other and low voltage conduit in the middle. 1' between power and low voltage is ok - more might be better but that is enough. Technically I was an inch or 2 under the 24" separate between gas and electric but the AHJ was fine with it. I didn't put in a spare conduit. Water and sewer were separate. You buildings are fairly close so it may not be a problem but surge protectors on low voltage lines are good insurance.

 

[jensenjl]

Always use larger/more than you think you'll need. There is always something else you want to put in there. Also, use steel over PVC. I've had too many PVC conduits break and have to cludge an alternate route down the road.

 

[chrismenke]

You know what is more expensive than conduit? Trenching.

I always advocate for the biggest possible pipe (both literally and metaphorically). I don't know anyone who's ever come back and said, gee, I wish I'd installed less.