Network outlets....hdmi...speakers....etc....HELP

[alex2929]

I have a shop and a nice little bar room I am slowly making progress on. I am working on the electric inside the bar room. I have a couple outlets planned where I think I may put a tv. What's everyone's thoughts on additional TV related stuff? Would it be smart to run any sort of Network outlet or HDMI? I am not real good with that stuff so looking for help. I had ideas of a couple TVs between the bar and shop and thought it may be nice if I could have them on the same channel to conserve internet demand? I also was thinking of speakers inside the bar, shop, and outside on the porch. I thought it would be nice if they could be controlled together or separate but I'm not real sure how to go about that either. Any thoughts or ideas would be great....I know enough to make it happen with some guidance I think.

 

[Stobal]

You could always make runs of cat6 Ethernet cable between possible sites for the tvs, speakers. It’s pretty easy to run hdmi over cat6. You can also use it to coordinate and control amps for speakers. The cable itself is pretty reasonable price wise. (I would get 100% copper not copper clad cable). The other stuff you would need varies in price depending on what exactly you are trying to achieve. This almost certainly a better option than running a very long hdmi cable. Those tend to be expensive because long lengths of hdmi often require active cables and need to be well constructed (read expensive) for reliable signal transmission.

 

[Roobaix]

Data guy here

When talking splitting signal to go to multiple TV's, are you using a cable box or something like a Roku/Apple TV/FireStick?

-Cable box: Run RG6 to each TV from the single cable box, and use a splitter at the cable box to go to each TV. You won't be able to easily change the channel unless it's near at least one of the TVs though. You could get an IR for the remote control and put it on top of the TV, which would be easy enough and relatively inexpensive.

Or just get another cable box and call it a day. That's what I would do.

-Roku/Apple TV/FireStick: You'll likely need an HDMI splitter/combiner.

 

[dcg9381]

I did a bunch of AV work in my last residence. The trickiest thing is HDMI. It's very particular and although it's a "standard" some devices do not play well with others for high end functions like CEC. It drove me nuts after spending a lot of money to centralize all our AV in a single closet location.

My advice:

1. Always use "premium" rated cables. Runs beyond 30' really can't be done without going to an "active" cable which may have compatibility problems. Active cables are fine, but again, verify that they work with your equipment via #2 below.
2. Your best bet is to get it all setup and laid out before you stick it in the wall, make sure it functions. Particular attention to encoding compatibility and successful resolution... Test CEC if you're going to use that.
3. The best "future proof" solution is probably 1 - 1.25" conduit with a pull string...

I haven't done HDMI over CAT6, but yes, it's possible.

I ran RG6 to every TV and centralized it. Then I discovered Amazon's Fire Recast DVR, which is mounted down in my shop. Our local TV channels and more are provided to 6 TVs via Fire Recast... I only have a single RG6 antenna connected and it's down at the shop (about 300' away). IE - I did a bunch of RG6 work and have never used it.

 

[ltusler]

Look in to "Smurf Tube" to each location where you may want a device. Minimum of a 3/4" and a open back backbox or mud ring. Run them to a common location where you will locate any splitters, hubs, wifi device or whatever network you decide on. Then pull cat 6, coax etc as needed. Provide a double duplex outlet there as well. Its nice if you can dedicate at least a 3'x3' sized plywood backboard for the network.

 

[remagenman]

Before you board anything up plan where you want your tv's, amp and speakers. have an outlet at each tv location and an outlet where your amp goes to power your speakers. Have a diagram of where the speaker wires will go connected to your amp.

How are you getting music to your amp? cd player, Fm or internet? In my shed I have a tablet connected to Spotify (using wifi) connected to a bluetooth receiver thats connected to my amp. Turn them on and just hit play. I also have a CAT6 cable connected to a pc that is connected to a 42" tv when I want to view **** online but also have access to my NAS inside the house that has access to my thousands of movies and music.

So, to future proof I would run a cat6 to your amp location for sure. Its faster and more stable than wifi. They have long HDMI cables, Monoprice and Amazon are your best bets for this. Will your TV's be connected to speakers via the amp? What will you play on the tv's? A diagram will just let you know what you have to run.

 

[wssix99]

Run lots of CAT-6. Hou can transport HDMI on 2 CAT-6 lines and just about anything else. For a TV location, I would run at least 4 CAT-6 lines to and from your data hub and wherever your sound/video sources will be. In my house, everything runs back to a central patch panel where I can tie the wires into data service or link them together for things like HDMI, etc.

 

[67carl]

My advice is shop here when you're ready to buy all the stuff,

HDMI Cable, Home Theater Accessories, HDMI Products, Cables, Adapters, Video/Audio Switch, Networking, USB, Firewire, Printer Toner, and more! - Monoprice.com

Monoprice, Inc. (DBA. MonoPrice.com) specializes in the wholesale distribution of world class cable assemblies for home theater, PC, and high technology industries. MonoPrice.com offers a wide range of products from standard PC products, network cables, and HDMI cables to custom cable assemblies...

www.monoprice.com

 

[dcg9381]

HDMI Cable, Home Theater Accessories, HDMI Products, Cables, Adapters, Video/Audio Switch, Networking, USB, Firewire, Printer Toner, and more! - Monoprice.com

Monoprice, Inc. (DBA. MonoPrice.com) specializes in the wholesale distribution of world class cable assemblies for home theater, PC, and high technology industries. MonoPrice.com offers a wide range of products from standard PC products, network cables, and HDMI cables to custom cable assemblies...

www.monoprice.com

Monoprice is great, but see advice on "fickleness" of HDMI. Last thing you want is to hard wire a home for 8K HDMI only to figure out that components (or cables) are not compatible.

 

[67carl]

Monoprice is great, but see advice on "fickleness" of HDMI. Last thing you want is to hard wire a home for 8K HDMI only to figure out that components (or cables) are not compatible.

I am certainly not an expert, but if you get the cable that matches your system it will work the same, whether it's a $200 cable or a $20 cable. By all means, test it before it goes into the wall. I would. I fell into the con that "premium" cables were better bs until I did some research. I would allow that 8k, being new, is harder to find evidence that "premium" cables don't offer anything a cheaper cable does, but for other cables the evidence is there and easy to see.

For proof I'll cite these credible sources. It's a lot to read, so for brevity look at the first link from PC Mag and scroll down to the Testing HDMI Cables section and read it. There is very clear evidence that it doesn't matter. It's not just that source, there's copious scientific evidence to easily be had If you look. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and if paying a lot of extra money works, you believe there is a difference, then go ahead. I'm sorry if this comes across as argumentative, I just want to offer an alternative to spending a lot of money when it makes no difference.

https://www.pcmag.com/news/slaying-the-cable-monster-what-you-need-to-know-about-hdmi-cables

https://www.cnet.com/culture/why-all-hdmi-cables-are-the-same/

https://www.cnet.com/tech/home-entertainment/why-all-hdmi-cables-are-the-same-part-2/#

 

[Stobal]

I am certainly not an expert, but if you get the cable that matches your system it will work the same, whether it's a $200 cable or a $20 cable. By all means, test it before it goes into the wall. I would. I fell into the con that "premium" cables were better bs until I did some research. I would allow that 8k, being new, is harder to find evidence that "premium" cables don't offer anything a cheaper cable does, but for other cables the evidence is there and easy to see.

For proof I'll cite these credible sources. It's a lot to read, so for brevity look at the first link from PC Mag and scroll down to the Testing HDMI Cables section and read it. There is very clear evidence that it doesn't matter. It's not just that source, there's copious scientific evidence to easily be had If you look. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and if paying a lot of extra money works, you believe there is a difference, then go ahead. I'm sorry if this comes across as argumentative, I just want to offer an alternative to spending a lot of money when it makes no difference.

https://www.pcmag.com/news/slaying-the-cable-monster-what-you-need-to-know-about-hdmi-cables

https://www.cnet.com/culture/why-all-hdmi-cables-are-the-same/

https://www.cnet.com/tech/home-entertainment/why-all-hdmi-cables-are-the-same-part-2/#

This is potentially very bad advice not because it is totally wrong it’s just over simplified. “Cables that match your system isn’t really a thing.” Now what is true is that as long as an HDMI cable has sufficient bandwidth and is able to transmit the signal the required distance that is as good as the signal is going to get. A more expensive cable would not improve performance. This doesn’t mean that the cheapest HDMI cable will suffice though. A cheaper cable may not have sufficient bandwidth for the signal it is being fed, (think of the difference in data quantity between an 8k transmission and a 1080p) or a cheaper cable may not be able to get the signal the required distance. HDMI starts getting really iffy on longer runs especially if the cable is not an “active cable”. That isn’t some hocus pocus term invented by silly cable snake oil salespeople. It’s an actual technology that actively amplifies and error corrects the signal (like a chip built into the cable). There cannot really be a “cleaner” signal when it’s digital which will result in better picture or sound. Either the cable will work or it doesn’t. If a cheap cable and an expensive cable both work the picture and sound will be the same. Now whoever wrote those cnet articles is also not an expert and it’s a terrible title for the piece. If you read through it at one point he says “The more expensive cables were more likely to transmit the data over long runs with a wide range of equipment.” He doesn’t even really address the idea of active cables versus passive ones. I definitely would not use those as good sources to research what you need. The one from pcmag is much better in that it actually addresses the idea of bandwidth and explains why HDMI cables are in fact not all the same and that you need to have one rated for the for the amount of data you are transmitting.
Without more details it’s difficult to give very specific recommendations but as I stated above and many other posters have echoed a running cat6 cable is best solution for maximum future flexibility. Obviously If the poster knows where his speakers are going to be and knows where the amp that will power said speakers will be it would be smart to go ahead and run the speaker wire. What I would avoid is purchasing any long HDMI cable unless it can be immediately tested before it is fished through wall cavities and returned if necessary. HDMI is fickle at the best of times due to the “handshake” requirement between devices. Once you start adding splitters, multiple sources and displays this only increases the likelihood of issues. Throw in long distances and it’s the perfect storm for a frustrating experience.

 

[67carl]

This is potentially very bad advice not because it is totally wrong it’s just over simplified. “Cables that match your system isn’t really a thing.” Now what is true is that as long as an HDMI cable has sufficient bandwidth and is able to transmit the signal the required distance that is as good as the signal is going to get. A more expensive cable would not improve performance. This doesn’t mean that the cheapest HDMI cable will suffice though. A cheaper cable may not have sufficient bandwidth for the signal it is being fed, (think of the difference in data quantity between an 8k transmission and a 1080p) or a cheaper cable may not be able to get the signal the required distance. HDMI starts getting really iffy on longer runs especially if the cable is not an “active cable”. That isn’t some hocus pocus term invented by silly cable snake oil salespeople. It’s an actual technology that actively amplifies and error corrects the signal (like a chip built into the cable). There cannot really be a “cleaner” signal when it’s digital which will result in better picture or sound. Either the cable will work or it doesn’t. If a cheap cable and an expensive cable both work the picture and sound will be the same. Now whoever wrote those cnet articles is also not an expert and it’s a terrible title for the piece. If you read through it at one point he says “The more expensive cables were more likely to transmit the data over long runs with a wide range of equipment.” He doesn’t even really address the idea of active cables versus passive ones. I definitely would not use those as good sources to research what you need. The one from pcmag is much better in that it actually addresses the idea of bandwidth and explains why HDMI cables are in fact not all the same and that you need to have one rated for the for the amount of data you are transmitting.
Without more details it’s difficult to give very specific recommendations but as I stated above and many other posters have echoed a running cat6 cable is best solution for maximum future flexibility. Obviously If the poster knows where his speakers are going to be and knows where the amp that will power said speakers will be it would be smart to go ahead and run the speaker wire. What I would avoid is purchasing any long HDMI cable unless it can be immediately tested before it is fished through wall cavities and returned if necessary. HDMI is fickle at the best of times due to the “handshake” requirement between devices. Once you start adding splitters, multiple sources and displays this only increases the likelihood of issues. Throw in long distances and it’s the perfect storm for a frustrating experience.

Thanks, I appreciate the clarification!

 

[Stobal]

Of course! I think the intention of these types of articles is noble, companies like Monster Cable and several less-known but exponentially worse offenders have been ripping customers off for years benefitting from and promoting pseudoscientific beliefs in order to rip people off. If someone has limitless disposable income and wants to use that to buy magic products….more power to them; that is the beauty of capitalism. With that being said limitless disposable income has never been something I struggled with, and probably doesn’t describe the majority of us so I applaud any attempt to provide transparency.

 

[MarvinBerry]

Rather then fixed jacks & burying runs in the walls forever... what we do in recording studios is PVC drops with access panels.

Unless your 110% sure that you'll never need to alter the lines its best to go with drops. That way you can change & update easily. Or at least easier.

 

[kbuhagiar]

Based on everything I've read here so far, it looks like Cat6 cabling is the best all-around bet for AV/network connectivity. Which is nice since the previous owners installed two leads to each room of our new house, home-runned to a patch panel in the office closet.

 

[Denwood]

The smartest thing I did in our extensive home theater reno is run all the cables I needed via the stud cavities, but also installed 2” PVC conduit with nothing in it from main equipment closet to the front and back of the theater. Needless to say, this conduit has saved my bacon twice now for new or upgraded cable runs.

 

[Pflumph]

Conduit. Period.
Ask this question 20 years ago and the answer was a Cat3 and RG59. 15 years ago it was Cat5, RG6 and maybe VGA. Now it's Cat6 and HDMI. 15 years from now, some other tech is going to replace whatever you install today. Fiber, maybe? By the way, Cat8 cable was ratified in 2016... Maybe we finally get to wireless HD at an affordable price (I actually went to FireTV sticks and a local streaming server - No wires to pull and $20 to replace. Another option). 10 years ago someone, somewhere spent a metric crapton of money on a new theater in their house. A week later Dolby released Atmos. That poor guy needed 4 more speakers...
Any way you slice it, the "right" answer today will almost certainly be wrong in 5/10/15 years.
Make a plan to get whatever wires you may need later to the places you may need them. The expense of a bunch of pipe or smurf tube to an A/V closet is tiny compared to the cost of ripping out drywall because the new HD-whatever standard requires 20 gauge conductors in the cable instead of the 22 gauge conductors in the one you finished into the wall.
BTDT

 

[Stobal]

Rather then fixed jacks & burying runs in the walls forever... what we do in recording studios is PVC drops with access panels.

Unless your 110% sure that you'll never need to alter the lines its best to go with drops. That way you can change & update easily. Or at least easier.

This is a good point. The blue flexi-tube is good for this also. Leave a pull string and it’s great future proofing.

 

[dcg9381]

Thanks, I appreciate the clarification!

When you start reading about the "standards" for HDMI, you'll start to understand that things (best case) can get wonky.
HDMI 2.0 is backwards compatible with everything. So an "active" cable that is HDMI 2.0 compliant "should" work for everything that's an HDMI 2.0 standard or older. HDCP 2.2 is not backwards compatible with 4k video. And then, pile on ARC and CEC compatibility and audio encoding standard across AV devices.

My audiophile friends tell me to buy only "premium" rated cable that is also rated for resolution and HDMI version. That's probably a good place to start.

My response to this, after having bungled HDMI implementation on one home and had big trouble with HDMI implementation on a home in 2021 is to lay it out and make sure stuff works before you put it in the wall.

I've finally gotten a home where a single (small) remote is setup per TV and it controls the A/V system located in a closet. it's a life changer (if you have a non-technical spouse anyway), even designing and implementing with 4K rated cables (both active and passive) - I had trouble with advanced features like CEC across components.

And I agree with everyone else, the only way to future proof this is to run conduit or blue "smurf tube" - it's worth it long term.

 

[infinkc]

in my home and shop i ran 2 pairs of cat 6 to every location where i thought id want a tv or a computer. cat 6 you can use it to run hdmi/audio over long distances.

All my tvs are being fed from a central location with hdmi to cat6 adapters. I also have my computer being split over cat 6 via Ethernet to kvm so i can use the same computer in different locations.

 

[alex2929]

So I’m getting farther with this….I bought 1000ft box of cat 6 tonight.

I essentially have a 54 x 56 shop. Inside of it I have a 20x24 bar room with a loft above it for storage. I also have a 16’ porch on the front side of it. I am kind of planning to have 2 tvs. I want 4 or 5 possible locations/outlets though. I also would like speakers Inside bar room, shop, and the porch. So essentially 3 sets of speakers and 2 tvs. For my shop speakers I was considering something a little bigger….more like speakers a DJ may use and for my porch I have some klipch outdoor speakers and won’t need anything too big for the bar room either.
I would love to have the flexibility to control this stuff together and/or separate. Radio on some speakers and maybe a football game from the tvs through other speakers, etc.
Any thoughts or ideas how to make this happen would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Milton Shaw]

When you are terminating the Cat 6, Legrand makes a tool for their ends that terminates and cuts all 8 wires at the same time. That beats the heck out of punching down each wire one at a time.

 

[dcg9381]

When you are terminating the Cat 6, Legrand makes a tool for their ends that terminates and cuts all 8 wires at the same time. That beats the heck out of punching down each wire one at a time.

This one?

 

[Roobaix]

Fluke makes one as well.

 

[Plump]

The quality of the cable does matter in my real-world experience. Agree that "Monster Cable" and some of this overpriced crud is crazy and makes no difference but using the "free" cable that comes with my wall mounts proved the difference in quality. I'm 100% a Monoprice guy and it has made all the difference in the world, especially with longer HDMI runs, to get signals to separate TV's. This is especially true with runs off my HDMI splitter. Cheap cables literally won't work. It's not that much more expensive to get a decent cable and make your stuff run. (And I'm SUPER cheap )

 

[Alchase]

I have a shop and a nice little bar room I am slowly making progress on. I am working on the electric inside the bar room. I have a couple outlets planned where I think I may put a tv. What's everyone's thoughts on additional TV related stuff? Would it be smart to run any sort of Network outlet or HDMI? I am not real good with that stuff so looking for help. I had ideas of a couple TVs between the bar and shop and thought it may be nice if I could have them on the same channel to conserve internet demand? I also was thinking of speakers inside the bar, shop, and outside on the porch. I thought it would be nice if they could be controlled together or separate but I'm not real sure how to go about that either. Any thoughts or ideas would be great....I know enough to make it happen with some guidance I think.

Personally, I would ditch the whole cable HDMI and CAT6 in the wall idea completely. I would add many electrical outlets not just a couple. Unless you have a Home Server serving up 8K movies, what would the purpose of the in wall HDMI serve?

I would run a separate cable box and maybe add a decent Blue Ray player. For internet I would run a Mesh network.

For your Speakers, inside the bar, shop, and outside on the porch. I would run wireless as well. I would use Apple's Home Kit and either multiple Apple Homepod Mini's linked to play the same music, you can control this through the App. Or any number of other wireless speakers (Sonos etc...) that can produce amazing sound especially for their size, and you can control what each speaker plays, even if they are all different. Play rock in the Bar Room and JazZ if you like, outside at the same time.
I have large plastic totes full of CAT 5, CAT 6, and HDMI, that I had previously used in my old house. I have not strung on lick of either in my new house.
That would be different if I was running a Media Server from a separate location.

 

[dcg9381]

Personally, I would ditch the whole cable HDMI and CAT6 in the wall idea completely. I would add many electrical outlets not just a couple. Unless you have a Home Server serving up 8K movies, what would the purpose of the in wall HDMI serve?

I don't have a media server, but all of my home's A/V is in a single closet. All the receivers sit in that closet. Many modern TVs offer CEC (volume control of the reciever) via HDMI. All of the usual mess of cables and A/V equipment is removed. TV installs are "clean" and everything is operated by small Amazon Fire remotes that are simple enough for everyone. Course, that closet has 2 circuits of dedicated power and vent fan in case it gets hot.

Sure you can do 4k over wifi, but my wi-fi has better things to do..

 

[Alchase]

I don't have a media server, but all of my home's A/V is in a single closet. All the receivers sit in that closet. Many modern TVs offer CEC (volume control of the reciever) via HDMI. All of the usual mess of cables and A/V equipment is removed. TV installs are "clean" and everything is operated by small Amazon Fire remotes that are simple enough for everyone. Course, that closet has 2 circuits of dedicated power and vent fan in case it gets hot.

Sure you can do 4k over wifi, but my wi-fi has better things to do..

nice!

I had a Home Media server for years, Hundreds of DVDs, Blue Rays, and Music catalogs. When I was disassembling it for our move to the new house, my wife said she had actually never used it, not once. WTH?
It dawned on me, every time we watched a movie together, I got it started, LOL.

Now she thinks she is a technological genius when she uses Apple Play from her iPhone or iPad to our TVs for Facetime with the grand kids.

 

[GarageSpider]

Just be careful with CAT cable, CCA is being sold everywhere, which is aluminum wire, coated with copper (copper clad aluminum) and that is ****. It is not compliant with the standards, and is cheap. Also, if you are not running in a conduit, always pull extra feeds. I've got a couple of regrets on that, that would require pulling the drywall to add more. But I dropped in a switch at the back of the TV.

 

[Shovelhead]

So I’m getting farther with this….I bought 1000ft box of cat 6 tonight.

I essentially have a 54 x 56 shop. Inside of it I have a 20x24 bar room with a loft above it for storage. I also have a 16’ porch on the front side of it. I am kind of planning to have 2 tvs. I want 4 or 5 possible locations/outlets though. I also would like speakers Inside bar room, shop, and the porch. So essentially 3 sets of speakers and 2 tvs.
I would love to have the flexibility to control this stuff together and/or separate. Radio on some speakers and maybe a football game from the tvs through other speakers, etc.
Any thoughts or ideas how to make this happen would be greatly appreciated.

Old post but this is pretty close to where I’m at in wiring my shop.
AUDIO/VIDEO

I will have a modem with less than stellar internet service(not fiber) in my metal building.
Would like a TV and music at that location as well as in a separate room inside of the shop, and on a covered porch.

Never have I worked with anything but Sat Tv ,, coax, banana plug audio cables and speaker wire. My equipment is old. Stereo tuner, CD player, neither of which are even capable of holding hands with a USB stick. Hey! There’s an acronym I know.
All these acronyms for media servers, internet, WiFi, streaming, blah blah blah, are above my pay grade.

Help! LOL

Not interested in using my stoopid telephone as a command center.
I have Dish network and Amazon Fire Stick.
My next step is to get internet service and see if I can reliably use the Dish Anywhere app to stream television. I have my doubts with the antiquated system from our provider.