Neutral & Ground bars - OK to use either if bonded?

[cwrandolph]

I am planning to have a 100 amp sub panel in the new garage fed from the 200 amp main panel in my house. The neutral and ground bars are bonded in the main panel and whoever wired it has neutral and ground wires connected to both bars. The only open terminals that would accept the wires going to the new panel are on the neutral bar (#1 AWG aluminum neutral and #2 AWG aluminum ground). Is this OK? The neutral and ground bars will be separated in the garage panel

 

[rlitman]

When the neutral and ground are bonded in your main panel, both bars serve the same purpose.

Your picture has some other red flags for me though. Two wires in breakers not rated for that use. And while you can group together grounds on the ground bar, each neutral should be under its own screw.

 

[dave*99]

I believe there is a rule about how the neutral bar and ground bar are used in your main panel.
One neutral conductor per screw.
Two ground conductors per screw.
Never a ground and neutral under one screw.

@rlitman types faster than I

 

[Jim greengo]

I am planning to have a 100 amp sub panel in the new garage fed from the 200 amp main panel in my house. The neutral and ground bars are bonded in the main panel and whoever wired it has neutral and ground wires connected to both bars. The only open terminals that would accept the wires going to the new panel are on the neutral bar (#1 AWG aluminum neutral and #2 AWG aluminum ground). Is this OK? The neutral and ground bars will be separated in the garage panel

As long as it's the main panel.

 

[Jim greengo]

When the neutral and ground are bonded in your main panel, both bars serve the same purpose.

Your picture has some other red flags for me though. Two wires in breakers not rated for that use. And while you can group together grounds on the ground bar, each neutral should be under its own screw.

Sq d breakers are the only ones I ever come across that are designed for 2 wires landed on a 1p breaker.

 

[dave*99]

It's good practice to keep the grounds and neutrals separate in case you ever need to convert your main panel into a sub panel. If you added an ATS and generator, that would require separation.

 

[rlitman]

...@rlitman types faster than I

I never could keep up with Kevin. Luck of the draw today I guess.

I wholeheartedly agree that keeping them separated makes things easier if you ever want to add an ATS.

Sq d breakers are the only ones I ever come across that are designed for 2 wires landed on a 1p breaker.

That's what I thought too, but I just looked it up and found pictures of some CHF breakers with 2-wire clamps. Anyway, if the breaker is meant to accept two wires, it will hold them independently and not together in a single lug. It'll be obvious, and the 2-wire use comes with lots of caveats (only Cu, both wires same size, etc.).

 

[wyliesdiesels]

hard to tell from your picture but looks like both bars are stacked on the same riser. can you take a pic that is zoomed out.

if the ground bar is mounted on the enclosure, then only grounds should go on it as it is not code permissive to carry neutral current thru the enclosure.

 

[cwrandolph]

hard to tell from your picture but looks like both bars are stacked on the same riser. can you take a pic that is zoomed out.

if the ground bar is mounted on the enclosure, then only grounds should go on it as it is not code permissive to carry neutral current thru the enclosure.

It doesn’t look like the ground bar is mounted to the enclosure - it’s mounted to a plastic bracket. Hope these pics help. Let me know what you think.

 

[dave*99]

Post a photo of the whole panel.
It looks very full.
Is there room to screw another ground bar to the panel? That could help you if you need to add anything.
Where does the wire from your ground rod(s) tie into the panel?
Some of the experts will recognize the panel and offer good advice.
Who is the manufacturer?

 

[MBfreak]

The Neutral and Earth circuits shall be totally separated and connected to each orher thru a removable link in the fuse panel.
Otherwise it will be difficult/impossible to make an insulation ( megger ) test.
And you are also likely to screw up the ground fault monitor/trip breakers.

Ola

 

[wyliesdiesels]

The Neutaral and Earth circuits shall be totally separated and connected to each orher thru a removable link in the fuse panel.

not true for many main panels and main service panels that only have one bar for both neutral and ground. like my meter main. only has 1 bar thats bolted to the enclosure.

Otherwise it will be difficult/impossible to make an insulation ( megger ) test.
And you are also likely to screw up the ground fault monitor/trip breakers.

Ola

nope. that doesnt screw them up. GFCIs dont care about EGCs and we dont even have GF monitoring on residential panels in the states.

 

[MBfreak]

It appears that I will have to reeducate me to the wonderful solutions in residential modern US installations.

Ola

 

[wyliesdiesels]

It appears that I will have to reeducate me to the wonderful solutions in residential modern US installations.

Ola

most commercial and some industrial buildings dont even have GF monitoring.... the main place youll find ground fault monitoring is on ungrounded services where there is no grounded conductor.

 

[Norcal]

most commercial and some industrial buildings dont even have GF monitoring.... the main place youll find ground fault monitoring is on ungrounded services where there is no grounded conductor.

They have ground detectors, GF is required for wye services over 150V to ground 1000A & larger. (480Y/277V)