New 20 AMP Circuit

[Perfuseme]

hi, first post, and thanks in advance.

id like to add a new 120 20 amp circuit to my finished standard 2 car garage with 9ft ceiling for addition of 3 plug outlets and power to a Canarm Model# CP56FRBK ceiling fan. The fan has a speed control Model# CN5041. I don't think adding a new circuit to the box or running the wire to the devices will be a major issue. I do have blown in insulation in the walls which will require some creative fishing, but we shall see. The plugs are going to be relatively high, probably only 2-3 ft from the top and reside in cabinets to provide cabinet lighting, tool chargers, power strips, and possibly a centered TV. My primary question, at the planning stage is regarding the speed control position in relation to the fan. Does it have to be before the fan in the circuit or can it be anywhere? my plan "now" is to run the 3 plugs from right to left to a location next to the current light switch and wired garage door opener just outside the laundry room door. At this location i will put the speed control for the fan and then run power back up the wall to the fan centered in the garage to end the circuit. It makes more sense to hit the fan first, then the plugs, and end with the speed control but you gotta do what you gotta do.

 

[soapii]

Power goes into the controller first then out to the fan. So yes the controller is between the fan and fuse panel.

--Joe

 

[Labradorian]

hi, first post, and thanks in advance.

id like to add a new 120 20 amp circuit to my finished standard 2 car garage with 9ft ceiling for addition of 3 plug outlets and power to a Canarm Model# CP56FRBK ceiling fan. The fan has a speed control Model# CN5041. I don't think adding a new circuit to the box or running the wire to the devices will be a major issue. I do have blown in insulation in the walls which will require some creative fishing, but we shall see. The plugs are going to be relatively high, probably only 2-3 ft from the top and reside in cabinets to provide cabinet lighting, tool chargers, power strips, and possibly a centered TV. My primary question, at the planning stage is regarding the speed control position in relation to the fan. Does it have to be before the fan in the circuit or can it be anywhere? my plan "now" is to run the 3 plugs from right to left to a location next to the current light switch and wired garage door opener just outside the laundry room door. At this location i will put the speed control for the fan and then run power back up the wall to the fan centered in the garage to end the circuit. It makes more sense to hit the fan first, then the plugs, and end with the speed control but you gotta do what you gotta do.

without a diagram its hard to see what you are doing here, but you have to make sure that the speed control is connected only to the fan and that it is connected in Series(inline) with it. You can certainly go to the fan first, then carry on to the plugs, but you have to branch off from the fan to the speed controller. I don't see how you will end the circuit with the speed control unless you want your plugs to be affected by the speed controller.

 

[Perfuseme]

without a diagram its hard to see what you are doing here, but you have to make sure that the speed control is connected only to the fan and that it is connected in Series(inline) with it. You can certainly go to the fan first, then carry on to the plugs, but you have to branch off from the fan to the speed controller. I don't see how you will end the circuit with the speed control unless you want your plugs to be affected by the speed controller.

from circuit breaker it will be directly to 1st plug then to 2nd plug, then to 3rd plug, over to speed control and lastly to the fan. the fan doesnt have to be on its own circuit does it? The speed control doesn't effect the plugs if its placed after them does it?

 

[2ManyProjects]

hi, first post, and thanks in advance.

id like to add a new 120 20 amp circuit to my finished standard 2 car garage with 9ft ceiling for addition of 3 plug outlets and power to a Canarm Model# CP56FRBK ceiling fan. The fan has a speed control Model# CN5041.

without a diagram its hard to see what you are doing here, but you have to make sure that the speed control is connected only to the fan and that it is connected in Series(inline) with it.

Correct.

from circuit breaker it will be directly to 1st plug then to 2nd plug, then to 3rd plug, over to speed control and lastly to the fan.

That will work; BUT there are some caveats...

the fan doesnt have to be on its own circuit does it?

No. I didn't look up the specs for that model; but typical ceiling fans have very low current requirements (usually on the order of 3-4 amps, at most).

The speed control doesn't effect the plugs if its placed after them does it?

Correct.

HOWEVER...

Per current code, ALL 120V outlets installed in garages MUST be GFCI-protected. There are several ways to do this, the easiest/simplest/cheapest of which would be to use a standard GFCI-duplex outlet in the "first" box in the chain, powered directly from the circuit breaker; then run the other ("normal") duplex outlets from the "Load" terminals of the GFCI outlet.

The problem here is, GFCIs don't play nicely with SOME motors, and the additional complication imposed by your fan-speed control can only exacerbate this issue, not ameliorate it. So if you run the fan (and its control) off the "last" outlet, you are asking for trouble.

Therefore I would suggest that in the "first" box, you make up a three-way pigtail to power the GFCI outlet's "Line" terminals, with the other "output" side of that pigtail going DIRECTLY to the fan control. Then wire the rest of the outlets as described above.

 

[Perfuseme]

Per current code, ALL 120V outlets installed in garages MUST be GFCI-protected. There are several ways to do this, the easiest/simplest/cheapest of which would be to use a standard GFCI-duplex outlet in the "first" box in the chain, powered directly from the circuit breaker; then run the other ("normal") duplex outlets from the "Load" terminals of the GFCI outlet.

The problem here is, GFCIs don't play nicely with SOME motors, and the additional complication imposed by your fan-speed control can only exacerbate this issue, not ameliorate it. So if you run the fan (and its control) off the "last" outlet, you are asking for trouble.

Therefore I would suggest that in the "first" box, you make up a three-way pigtail to power the GFCI outlet's "Line" terminals, with the other "output" side of that pigtail going DIRECTLY to the fan control. Then wire the rest of the outlets as described above.

[/QUOTE]

So essentially the first plug should be GFCI and it protects the downstream plugs. but the fan power branches off before the GFCI plug. I had an electrician buddy tell me i didnt have to have GFCI for some reason but i forgot what he said. i dont mind following code.

 

[Paul_VR6]

You don't need it for a *dedicated* use. Such as a not easily moved fridge, oven, etc. where something else won't be plugged in.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

You don't need it for a *dedicated* use. Such as a not easily moved fridge, oven, etc. where something else won't be plugged in.

Those exceptions are no longer in the code, beginning with the 2011 version. The only equipment that does not need it is hardwired snow melting equipment. Prior to 2011 code, it was not required above 7 ft if I recall, and also not required for dedicated receptacles where there were no open receptacles (single outlet for a single fridge), but those exceptions no longer exist if your state/locale is on 2011 code version.

Charles

 

[Bowtie Billy]

Just set a junction box and branch out of it to the fan controller and then to the first recept....

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Therefore I would suggest that in the "first" box, you make up a three-way pigtail to power the GFCI outlet's "Line" terminals, with the other "output" side of that pigtail going DIRECTLY to the fan control. Then wire the rest of the outlets as described above.

^^^This is the only way you will be happy and successful with this in the end^^^^

Charles

 

[2ManyProjects]

So essentially the first plug should be GFCI and it protects the downstream plugs. but the fan power branches off before the GFCI plug.

Exactly.

I had an electrician buddy tell me i didnt have to have GFCI for some reason but i forgot what he said. i dont mind following code.

As later noted by Charles, it can depend somewhat on which edition of the NEC your local AHJ is currently following/enforcing. There WERE a handful of "special case" exceptions in the older versions which have been eliminated in the current iteration.

That said, I am among those who consider the blind all-encompassing requirement for GFCI-only outlets in garages (including those with essentially zero chance of ever seeing water) to be a bit over the top, and more the product of bureaucratic over-reaching than any real safety issue. As a PRACTICAL matter, there CAN be situations where they are neither needed (from a safety standpoint) nor desirable (from an operational standpoint). But IF they are legally required in your location (which they probably are, or soon will be), then unfortunately, that is the end of the story. And besides, from a "resale value" point of view, it is generally better to go ahead and follow the latest code, even if you are not YET required to do so.

Just set a junction box and branch out of it to the fan controller and then to the first recept....

That will work too. Which approach will be preferable will depend on the physical layout of the garage and the relative locations of the various devices.

 

[Paul_VR6]

Thanks for the heads up on the '11 changes, see what I get for not keeping up!

 

[Perfuseme]

Just set a junction box and branch out of it to the fan controller and then to the first recept....

This is what I ended up doing. Junction box in the attic where main line comes in from breaker. From there down the wall to a GFcI and 2 more plugs down the wall. Also from the junction to the fan control and the to the fan. Also from junction box I ran an extra plug in the attic for lights or fan or tools.

Also ran a 2nd 20 amp circuit into a junction box in attic that il use later to run some plugs to the eves for Xmas lights and what ever the hell else I can think of.

Texturing and painting now. Il get some pics up of the whole process once I get done.

Thanks again!

 

[Norcal]

The exceptions were gone in the 2008 NEC also, and to "2ManyProjects" what does water have to do w/ GFCI requirements? A GFCI is a proven & inexpensive safety device, I would have rather had the requirements for them expanded then AFCI's which really cannot be proven to do a ****** thing....


When GFCI's were first required in garages the rationale was that outdoor equipment would be plugged into the garage receptacles.

 

[2ManyProjects]

The exceptions were gone in the 2008 NEC also, and to "2ManyProjects" what does water have to do w/ GFCI requirements?

Mostly for the same reason GFCIs are required in bathroom and kitchen applications: The possibility that a human will be in "wet" contact with something that eventually finds its way to Earth ground magnifies the risk, should the "normal" path-to-ground fail (or be rendered moot) for any reason.

A GFCI is a proven & inexpensive safety device, I would have rather had the requirements for them expanded then AFCI's which really cannot be proven to do a ****** thing....

No argument on that point. I just don't see the utility, let alone the "need", to GFCI-protect (for example) ceiling mounted outlets used for such things as garage door openers.

Or, take the "quick & dirty" approach to installing lights which comes up here regularly... i.e., buying a bunch of cheap plug-in "shop lights", and installing duplex outlets in the ceiling to power them. I am definitely NOT a fan of this approach, for all sorts of reasons. But that said, I also don't think it necessarily rises to the level of something which should be outright banned (which, given the potential incompatibility between GFCIs and fluorescent lights, it effectively is, now).

When GFCI's were first required in garages the rationale was that outdoor equipment would be plugged into the garage receptacles.

And for any outlet located where that is a reasonable possibility, I have absolutely no issue with requiring it to be GFCI-protected. It's the "wide brush" over-application of the requirement to outlets which, by virtue of their location, DON'T present an enhanced shock risk, that I have something of an problem with.