New air compressor fluctuating ??

[Fixnfly]

Today I wired up my new Industrial air 60 gallon compressor using 10 gauge stranded wire and a 30 amp breaker. When I turn it on, the motor runs but the rpms of the pump are fluctuating and the motor is making a slight clicking sound
I only let it run for about 20 seconds or so and the breaker never tripped.
The breaker is on the bottom right in the picture.
I'm sure someone here knows what I did wrong!

 

[BuffettFan]

I'm not an electrician, but it looks like it's a 230v motor wired to 110v.
Not sure 10ga wire is nearly heavy enough either. Mine is wired with 6 AWG

 

[rattle_snake]

Yes you need to use a 30A double pole breaker (similar to the 100A that is in there). 10ga is right size for a 30A circuit.

I see some other issues too. I would expect all gnds on one buss, all neutral (white) on the other. No red wires to GND. Not sure what the blue wire is.

Is this panel bonded (aka neutral connected the GND)?
If it is a subpanel then it likely shouldn't be.

 

[pattenp]

You can burn up the motor running it on 120V. As said the motor is 240V so you use a double pole breaker. A 240V compressor does not use a neutral.

Also as said if this is a subpanel the neutrals need to be isolated, not bonded to ground.

Another thing is the wires to the neutral/ground bar should only be bare, green or white.

And white wire in NM used as a hot need to be marked as red or black.

And I don't see a neutral wire for the main feeder unless it's out of the picture. The main feeder should be 4 wires.

Is this a detached garage? If so, how is the feeder run to the garage? The feeder wire looks like SER cable.

I'll stop now.


*

 

[Milton Shaw]

That whole box is wired wrong. Turn it off and get someone over to rewire it that know what they are doing. The only breaker that looks right is the double pole on the top left. The one under it is a duplex that is wired with a black and white to it-trying to make it a two pole 240 volt but its not. The grounds and neutral bars are both wired wrong and never should have blue and red wires on either neutral or blue. Either get someone over or get a good book on wiring and learn what you are doing, don't run anything at they are wired now.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Wow.

Thats gotta be a first on here.

Yeah your motor is struggling because its operating with half the voltage it should be running on.

I will wait to ask more questions til you respond to pattenp's questions.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

That whole box is wired wrong. Turn it off and get someone over to rewire it that know what they are doing. The only breaker that looks right is the double pole on the top left. The one under it is a duplex that is wired with a black and white to it-trying to make it a two pole 240 volt but its not. The grounds and neutral bars are both wired wrong and never should have blue and red wires on either neutral or blue. Either get someone over or get a good book on wiring and learn what you are doing, don't run anything at they are wired now.

Actually based on the white button on that breaker, its a GFCI so the 2 neutrals going to it are correct.

 

[The Tool Tyrant]

wow.

Thats gotta be a first on here.

Yeah your motor is struggling because its operating with half the voltage it should be running on.

I will wait to ask more questions til you respond to pattenp's questions.

^^ x2

 

[Evan(CA)]

That's a GFI or arc fault breaker guys, the white is not being used as a hot.

OP Get a two pole 30a breaker to replace the single you have it hooked up to now and connect the black and red leads to it from your compressor. It looks like you are using blue as a ground, not code compliant but if it's your personal property tape it green and call it good. There is a good chance you need to isolate the grounds and neutrals in that panel but without more information everyone else is just guessing.

 

[ForceFed70]

I agree with the others. There is very much wrong with this wiring and panel in general. It's pretty clear to me that the OP doesn't have the skill required to do this job. He should stop what he's doing and get help from a professional.

 

[Marctrees]

Fixnfly - You seriously need to listen to the guys above.

Numerous mistakes shown in panel.

Some very possibly dangerous to life or property. Marc

 

[Fixnfly]

The box was wired by a local electrician who has been in business for awhile.
It was then inspected by another person who bought it off. Power comes off a pole near the detatched garage.
I'm not arguing with anyone but I want to make it clear that I did not wire the box. (Other than the compressor wiring)

The breaker below the double pole main is indeed a GFI breaker.

I used a A/C whip and it came with black/red/green wires. No blue. Red is the new white.

The box is not a subpanel, it is wired directly to a pole near the detached garage.

 

[Fixnfly]

I did not know neutral wires are supposed to on a different bus than the ground wires. The wiring book I have must have steered me wrong. Seeing that the electrician wired neutral and ground on the same bus made me think it was acceptable.

 

[Fixnfly]

Here's some more pics of the box to help answer more questions...

 

[PCustoms]

I did not know neutral wires are supposed to on a different bus than the ground wires. The wiring book I have must have steered me wrong. Seeing that the electrician wired nuetral and ground on the same bus made me think it was acceptable. I will separate them.

This is a main panel (from what you described). The neutral and ground are bonded together, see the green screw and "strap" about midway up on the right side? That is creating a common electrical path for ground and neutral.

This (main panel) is the ONLY place this is allowed.

To fix your issue you need a 30A double pole breaker, it will replace the current lower right breaker and fill the space above it. Make sure it is the correct brand and model to fit your panel. You will also need to take the red wire that you currently have on the ground bar and move it to the breaker.

Please post a pic how you have it wired at the motor.

You should have black to L1, red to L2. Green is the ground, there should be a green screw that grounds the metal parts of the motor and compressor.

At the panel, green goes to the ground buss, red goes to one screw on the breaker and black goes to the other. This feeds 120v relative to ground on each wire, which gives the motor 240V (I've simplified that a bit).

As others have said, right now you are giving the motor half power. This will kill it in short time.

 

[mm08822]

If that panel is a main panel then grds and neutrals mixed together are not a problem. It will be a main panel if there is no other disconnect between it and meter.

I assume the "blue" wire is green just looks off color in pic.

The red on the neutral bar i assume is from your incorrect compreszor wiring.

Can you confirm each of these points?

 

[pattenp]

To make sure this is not a subpanel, this panel is fed directly from the meter and there is no disconnect breaker/switch at the meter for this panel? And, the only main disconnect is the 100A main breaker that's in the panel? If the feeder is coming off a breaker/switch at the meter then the feeder also needs to be 4 wires and not 3. Is this panel a fairly new install? Sorry for all the questions but I've seem so called electricians install things not to NEC standards.

 

[Marctrees]

Fixn - Please elaborate on "wired directly to a pole"


Is there no disconnect outside, or "before" this panel ?

JUST a Meter ??

So, you cannot shutoff the feed to this panel w/o calling the Power Company ?

Marc

 

[Marctrees]

Pattenp - sorry, stepped on your toes. Marc

 

[Marctrees]

If anyone didn't notice .. Fixn took pretty good photos, that are multi zoomable, for me anyway..I guess stuff can show different on diff computers.

The left side bar does have the bare of the SE connected, and one solid #6 , assuming to a rod.

And, the horizontal strap bonding both bars in center of bar height.

But, no 4th grounding conductor incoming. Marc

 

[Fixnfly]

If that panel is a main panel then grds and neutrals mixed together are not a problem. It will be a main panel if there is no other disconnect between it and meter.

I assume the "blue" wire is green just looks off color in pic.

The red on the neutral bar i assume is from your incorrect compreszor wiring.

Can you confirm each of these points?

It is a main panel.
There is no blue wire,it's actually green.
The red wire is neutral. I could not find 10 gauge stranded wire in conduit with the correct color.

 

[PCustoms]

It is a main panel.
There is no blue wire,it's actually green.
The red wire is neutral. I could not find 10 gauge stranded wire in conduit with the correct color.

Go back and read my post. You DO NOT have a neutral in this dedicated 240V circuit.

Red wire needs to come off that buss and go to the double pole breaker, which you need to install.

Stop using the compressor until you fix this

 

[Fixnfly]

Please post a pic how you have it wired at the motor.

Here's the wiring at the switch

 

[lakeroadster]

Here's the wiring at the switch

The black and red should both be hot.

The red should go to one pole of a double pole breaker, the black to the other breaker pole.

And don't use crimp connectors... just clamp the bare wires into the device.

 

[Fixnfly]

Go back and read my post. You DO NOT have a neutral in this dedicated 240V circuit.

Red wire needs to come off that buss and go to the double pole breaker, which you need to install.

Stop using the compressor until you fix this

OK.
I will replace the breaker with a 30 amp double pole.
The compressor only ran about 10 seconds or so.

 

[Marctrees]

Fixnfly sed - "It is a main panel."

I may be beating a dead horse, but please tell How you know this is a "Main", meaning your "Service Panel", and NOT a "Sub Panel"


Thank you, Marc

 

[Marctrees]

Lake sed - "And don't use crimp connectors... just clamp the bare wires into the device."

Totally agree, except those look like female flag stakons there, so he has male flags on the
Switch ?

Marc

 

[Fixnfly]

Fixnfly sed - "It is a main panel."

I may be beating a dead horse, but please tell How you know this is a "Main", meaning your "Service Panel", and NOT a "Sub Panel"


Thank you, Marc

It's not powered by any other panel.
It's connected directly to a meter. Everything was installed back in 2012

 

[Marctrees]

Thank you. Marc

 

[Fixnfly]

Lake sed - "And don't use crimp connectors... just clamp the bare wires into the device."



Marc

I don't like them either but they came with the compressor. I will eliminate them.

 

[Evan(CA)]

Fixnfly sed - "It is a main panel."

I may be beating a dead horse, but please tell How you know this is a "Main", meaning your "Service Panel", and NOT a "Sub Panel"


Thank you, Marc

I don't usually correct spelling mistakes but ffs man, sed? I hope English is your 2nd language.

 

[Fixnfly]

Ok
New 30a double pole breaker installed!. I have not fired up the compressor yet, I'll wait till someone checks my work first.

 

[pattenp]

Looks good... let her rip.

 

[mm08822]

Pattenp - sorry, stepped on your toes. Marc

And isn't that the first point described in post 16 that OP was asked to verify?

 

[Marctrees]

I don't usually correct spelling mistakes but ffs man, sed? I hope English is your 2nd language.

"Sed" is taken from my past, In Downtown Mpls in the 60's and 70's there was a huge billboard w a guy saying "Sez" for "Says".

The guy was beckoning people to his Bar.

Actually, it was painted on the wall of a brick building.

It was iconic in Mpls for maybe 3 decades.

All my Buds from back then adopted the concept.

So it's kinda fun to use a derivative of it, for me, if not for you.

You Spelling Nazi You !!!!! Marc

 

[American Locomotive]

Ok
New 30a double pole breaker installed!. I have not fired up the compressor yet, I'll wait till someone checks my work first.

Do you understand the actual reason why you need a double pole breaker in this application? The compressor motor is 240v (which the nameplate on the motor says!).

You panel has two separate hot wires coming into it. Without getting into the details and simplifying it, you can think of one as hot +120v relative to neutral and the other as -120v relative to neutral.

So if you install a single pole breaker, you're only tapping into one of the hots, giving a maximum potential of 120v. With the double pole breaker, you're connecting across the "+120v" and the "-120v", giving a total potential of 240v.

 

[Fixnfly]

The compressor is running as it should now!
Sure would have been alot less trouble if the manufacturer could supply some information in the manual.
I want to say thanks to those of you who chose to help instead of criticize.
Some of you guys really blow things out of proportion.
Now it's time to do some plumbing and start buying more air tools!

 

[laser3kw]

Now it's time to do some plumbing and start buying more air tools!

Glad you got it running!

 

[donpauli2]

Call me stupid here but I'm curious if this panel is supplied direct from a meter base. I got the 240 part down. BUT I see some 120 singles in there but no Neutral from said meter base coming in. Am I not seeing the obvious here. ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[wyliesdiesels]

The compressor is running as it should now!
Sure would have been alot less trouble if the manufacturer could supply some information in the manual.
I want to say thanks to those of you who chose to help instead of criticize.
Some of you guys really blow things out of proportion.
Now it's time to do some plumbing and start buying more air tools!

Information such as? The motor nameplate gives you everything you need to know.

Often manufacturers dont want any liability thrown their way so they defer to hiring a licensed electrician to install the electrical for the compressor.

Just out of curiosity, how did you come up with using a 30a single pole breaker vs another amperage and double pole?

BTW- whatever you do for the plumbing DONT use PVC...unless you want the potential for plastic shrapnel...

Call me stupid here but I'm curious if this panel is supplied direct from a meter base. I got the 240 part down. BUT I see some 120 singles in there but no Neutral from said meter base coming in. Am I not seeing the obvious here. ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thats what the OP said.... also notice the solid copper wire that presumably goes to one or more electrodes.

And yes you missed the bare aluminum neutral in the SEU wire that goes to the lower portion of the left neutral bar... but now that you brought this up and Ive seen the SEU, it brings more questions to my mind.... below

The box was wired by a local electrician who has been in business for awhile.
It was then inspected by another person who bought it off. Power comes off a pole near the detatched garage.
I'm not arguing with anyone but I want to make it clear that I did not wire the box. (Other than the compressor wiring)

The breaker below the double pole main is indeed a GFI breaker.

I used a A/C whip and it came with black/red/green wires. No blue. Red is the new white.

The box is not a subpanel, it is wired directly to a pole near the detached garage.

I see that this main panel is fed by gray jacketed SEU.

Is there any splices in a junction box on the garage where this SEU may transition to another cable type?

OR does this gray jacketed SEU run all the way to the pole underground?

If this cable runs all the way to the pole underground, then it is incorrect.

SEU is NOT permitted to be ran underground because of the bare neutral. Which, with water, will rot and turn into a paste substance.

Hopefully the electrician that wired this did it correct. Otherwise you will need to have it replaced.