New Auto Repair Garage..need help

[tdkkart]

I talked to one of my prospect hires this weekend. He has 20 years experience as a mechanic. He is currently making $400 a week. He asked if I would give his son who is 25 years old a try. He explained that his son is as good if not better than him. He said that if I would hire his son on at $8 an hour he would be happy. He is currently making $8 an hour working as a mechanic for a car lot. We have a state run agency called Workforce that is online. I did a search as if I were looking for a job and found 8 job listings for mechanics at $10 an hour.

Anybody that has 20 years verifiable experience and is still making $10/hr($400/wk) isn't somebody I'd want working for me because he's apparantly too stupid to even go out and get himself a job that pays what it should.

25 years ago I was offered $10/hr plus a company truck to stay on as the the mechanic for a rental equipment outfit that I worked for while I was going to tech school. I turned it down for a $8/hr job that was guaranteed to give me $13 within 3 years, and has now gone to nearly 3x my starting wage at the rental outfit.

There's a ton of jobs available for $10/hr that are far less demanding and a whole lot cleaner than being a grease monkey, anyone too stupid to get one deserves to stay where they're at.

 

[hoarder1212]

You found 8 job listings for 10/hr because good mechanics will not work for that! You get what you pay for and if you only want a couple of wrench beaters then that's the right price. I would personally be embarrassed to offer any one with the ability of an ASE mechanic 10/hr.

 

[Thumper]

Damn.........10 buck an hour mechanics.....I don't know about that ****.

I can understand your dream.....I just hope it don't turn into a nightmare!

 

[krusty the clown]

The economy hasnt changed the fact that people still drive their cars.

no they still drive them in need of repairs..........and they will try to fix then themselves. most shops in this area are struggling to survive.

i hve no overhead and my tools for the most part are paid for, i usually get 20hrs of work a week. i'm eating more bologna (with hellmanns of course) than steak.

 

[sammerdog]

Anybody that has 20 years verifiable experience and is still making $10/hr($400/wk) isn't somebody I'd want working for me because he's apparantly too stupid to even go out and get himself a job that pays what it should.....

....There's a ton of jobs available for $10/hr that are far less demanding and a whole lot cleaner than being a grease monkey, anyone too stupid to get one deserves to stay where they're at.

On behalf of all the apparantly stupid people of Michigan who would love to find a job paying $10/hour, I would humbly like to ask "where?"

Full disclosure: Sammerdog is a white male, not elligible for Veteran's preference, nor Obama's Work Opportunity tax credit.

 

[W-Cummins]

On behalf of all the apparantly stupid people of Michigan who would love to find a job paying $10/hour, I would humbly like to ask "where?"

In Iowa... I couldn't get any one to baby sit my kids for $10.00 per hr ( of course that might be saying some thing about the kids ))
The unemployment rate for Iowa City was the lowest in the nation last month @ 3.2%

William...

 

[djd99]

On behalf of all the apparantly stupid people of Michigan who would love to find a job paying $10/hour, I would humbly like to ask "where?"

Full disclosure: Sammerdog is a white male, not elligible for Veteran's preference, nor Obama's Work Opportunity tax credit.

I agree, I have many unemployed friends in Michigan that would kill for 10/hour right now. And sorry to say most are not stupid! Like I said Most..... I have one friend with a engineering degree who still can't find a job unless he moves out of Michigan, and he took a job at Bugerking so he had scratch to continue to look. It's pretty sad.

 

[Alowes2837]

This is exactlty what I meant when I said there are good techs looking for work. It may seem degrading to some to take a job paying only X an hour but remember these people still have mortgages to pay and families to feed so they shouldn't be knocked.
Rather than employ what has been described as a wrench beater I would be looking at a good qualified and certified tech, you must remember though that when things get better you will need to change thier pay accordingly otherwise they will be off leaving you back where you started.

 

[krismoriah]

Well in my area the car dealerships that are closed are being turned into Used Auto Malls...I saw one that was converted into a Flea Market.. GM dealerships are coming next I think.

What are they going to do rebuild all new dealerships?

 

[Steve from Socal]

I know you don't want to hear this and your area may lag the rest of the country but, older cars will not last much longer in general terms. Unless you have the skilled workforce to deal with current technology you will be just another statistic.

You may be able to hire "mechanics" for 10 bucks an hour, do you have a real lead mechanic to assign the tasks and keep them from making costly mistakes? If you don't have the knowledge and insight to lead your troops you need a good captain.

Every one here who has voiced concern with your idea is doing so because they do understand the biz and it is far less black and white than you seem to realize.

If all you work on is junk then all you can expect is a meager living and lots of problems with both your help and customers.

Steve

 

[krismoriah]

per your advice..I found a dealer liquidating.

What are these worth?

I have to act on this tomorrow..having a hard time finding what they are worth.

3 challenger 2 post lifts. He wants $1000 each.

Hunter Alignment system with FMC rack.. wants $3500 (he says its not updated)..shop went out of business 3 months ago.

This is a car dealership and everything in his shop must go..everything is left except for tire mount and balance equipment.

Jacks, air compressors, oil drains, coolant machines...

The more I buy the more I save he says...everything must go by the weekend.

 

[vette]

HI all First let me say I find this thread very interesting because there are a lot of good points made here and I have been in this exact position. First off where I am a McDonalds empl. makes more than $10. an hour [good for you bad for me].2nd I agree look to specialize,electronics is the future diagnostics and repair{just an obd scaner just wont cut it] how about a smoker for emissions[it will be everwher soon] a flasher for the computers[they get $300. a shot here] and most important the knowledge to know what the codes mean and how to fix it. Here it's $95-$100 an hour labor if it takes you 4hr what should have taken 2hr. you lose.
This is why I walked away and know own a small machine shop that just builds race motors for things that interest me .Of course I have a reg. job to pay the bills.[Maybe I should make that shop bigger mmmmmm.]

 

[autoace]

This is exactlty what I meant when I said there are good techs looking for work. It may seem degrading to some to take a job paying only X an hour but remember these people still have mortgages to pay and families to feed so they shouldn't be knocked.
Rather than employ what has been described as a wrench beater I would be looking at a good qualified and certified tech, you must remember though that when things get better you will need to change thier pay accordingly otherwise they will be off leaving you back where you started.

Just because times are tough, does not mean qualified individuals should work for peanuts..................you are right, they have mortgages, car payments, kids..............................because people are out of work, people are being taken advantage of pay rate wise. sad

Everyone wants something for nothing, that is why we are soo screwed as a whole.

 

[rsanter]

let me throw some experience into the mix based on the fact that I had a shop.
this is only my view based on my personal experience and nothing else.

I started playing with cars as a teen. I did some buying and selling as I came across good deals and then that evolved into me doing some side work on other peoples vintage cars.
I then got involved in racing with a friend and we got a small shop to hold the racecar and be a 'hobby shop' for us as we have very limited space at home.
for some extra money we made a plan that we would build race cars and racing engines (hopefully for the guys we were racing against).
that plan did not work too well and its a good thing that we were not reliant on this for our income. we were both still working jobs, so for now we were OK.
while our compeditors did not seem to want us to build them a racecar or a race engine, they did bring us a couple of wrecked racecars to fix. I still have some side work going from before and then we started getting some work in doing some fabrication and streetrod and restoration type work.
over time it bacame a full time job and developed into a buisness that was actually doing well. I had friends working for me on the side but I was doing most the work. my partner was still working and paying half the shop for his personal use and had no problem with me running a buisness on my side.
to make a long story short, it justified me getting into a bigger shop after a couple of years and then I saved my money and was able to buy a parts store when the deal came up after a few more years.
so far so good. I was young and had few other bills and nobody to worry about but myself.
fast foreward. as the buisness grew I eventually wanted to start a bodyshop so I can control more of the process. the paint and body was the most stressfull part of a build as I was reliant upon other shops to do it.

so let me get to my point.
because the bodyshop was the one thing I was involved with that I was not the 'expert' on. this was the most unstable part of the buisness and the most stressfiull part.
the best day was the day I was able to sell it to the guy that was running it for me.

if you are not an expert or at least knowledgble in the buisness you are doing, you are in for a rough road in my opinion.
I went into this with a base clientelle from when I was doing it as a hobby so I had that advantage. I did no advirtising as I had no money for it, people knew about me can found their way to me through word of mouth

just my 2cents

bob

 

[jhn9840]

Is this a new business that you and a partner are trying to get off the ground, or an existing one that someone left you as an inheritance?

jhn9840
John

 

[35mastr]

let me throw some experience into the mix based on the fact that I had a shop.
this is only my view based on my personal experience and nothing else.

I started playing with cars as a teen. I did some buying and selling as I came across good deals and then that evolved into me doing some side work on other peoples vintage cars.
I then got involved in racing with a friend and we got a small shop to hold the racecar and be a 'hobby shop' for us as we have very limited space at home.
for some extra money we made a plan that we would build race cars and racing engines (hopefully for the guys we were racing against).
that plan did not work too well and its a good thing that we were not reliant on this for our income. we were both still working jobs, so for now we were OK.
while our compeditors did not seem to want us to build them a racecar or a race engine, they did bring us a couple of wrecked racecars to fix. I still have some side work going from before and then we started getting some work in doing some fabrication and streetrod and restoration type work.
over time it bacame a full time job and developed into a buisness that was actually doing well. I had friends working for me on the side but I was doing most the work. my partner was still working and paying half the shop for his personal use and had no problem with me running a buisness on my side.
to make a long story short, it justified me getting into a bigger shop after a couple of years and then I saved my money and was able to buy a parts store when the deal came up after a few more years.
so far so good. I was young and had few other bills and nobody to worry about but myself.
fast foreward. as the buisness grew I eventually wanted to start a bodyshop so I can control more of the process. the paint and body was the most stressfull part of a build as I was reliant upon other shops to do it.

so let me get to my point.
because the bodyshop was the one thing I was involved with that I was not the 'expert' on. this was the most unstable part of the buisness and the most stressfiull part.
the best day was the day I was able to sell it to the guy that was running it for me.

if you are not an expert or at least knowledgble in the buisness you are doing, you are in for a rough road in my opinion.
I went into this with a base clientelle from when I was doing it as a hobby so I had that advantage. I did no advirtising as I had no money for it, people knew about me can found their way to me through word of mouth

just my 2cents

bob

Well said Bob. Here 10.00/Hr techs are comeback techs. Tires will fall off and it will get ugly.

Unemployment pays a 1.50 more here in Ca.

You will need to have real automotive auto techs.

Guys that work for used car lots are not the caliber that I would use as lead guys.

Car lot owners are just patch cars up and get them ready for the lot or auction. They dont beleive in spending money on cars.

I did lots of fleet work for used car lots in the 90,s. It was good steady cash,But they are some of the cheapest ball busting customers that you will ever have to deal with.

I would buy all that equipment that you listed from that dealer. those prices are not out of line.

Good luck and I hope you do well.

 

[nate379]

I have no idea where you figure $700-800 a month on groceries. You must eat steak for every meal or something!

For a while only my Dad was working and he made about $400/week take home. We did just fine. My Mom spent about $150 every 2 weeks for grocceries.

Now this is mid 90s, but still inflation hasn't go up that high!

While in high school I worked full time and I was making $6.50/hr toward the end. (about 10 years ago)

I have always wondered this, how does a grown man making a lousy 400(325.00 after taxes) bucks a week, support anything....................It is 2009, groceries and house consumables for a family of 4 is about 700 to 800 bucks a month, that is just at the grocery store. WTF.........................................there is nobody over the age of 21, with marketable skills, that would work as a mechanic for a measely 10 bucks an hr., unless they are naive or ignorant.

45 bucks for an oil change is not that bad these day for cars like Saab, Volvo, Toyota.......they all need per OEM, synthetic blend oil, of specific wt., no more 10w30 barrel oil fits all, those days are over.

Oh well, I'm not trying to rain on everyones' parade, I just want to know what planet they live on, where this makes sense. I have been self-employed for so long, maybe I have forgotten, but the pay rates sound like an insult to me.

In 1987, as a teenager, I made 10 bucks an hr. cleaning pools, I cannot imagine any man, 20+ years later being paid so little.

 

[krusty the clown]

but still inflation hasn't go up that high!

boy it has here. the price of groceries has doubled and/or tripled over the last few years. i live alone and i spend over $100 per week. and no i don't eat steak often.


as far as the rest of this debate i think autoace is the only one who really has his finger on the pulse. do those of you who think $10 an hour is a great paying job work in the auto repair industry? do you still have the 1960's attitude of goober pyle servicing andy's sherriff's car?


why would anyone with 30 years of experience and $60k worth of tools work for $10 an hour? you can make that at McBurgers and they will supply the spatula!

 

[35mastr]

I think Nate is comparing small Alaskan towns to the Big Cities.

Its not the same. My wife spends at least 150.00 a week at the store and does not bring home a whole lot. We dont eat steaks either.

 

[35mastr]

I have no idea where you figure $700-800 a month on groceries. You must eat steak for every meal or something!

For a while only my Dad was working and he made about $400/week take home. We did just fine. My Mom spent about $150 every 2 weeks for grocceries.

Now this is mid 90s, but still inflation hasn't go up that high!

While in high school I worked full time and I was making $6.50/hr toward the end. (about 10 years ago)

Yes it has. On that salary you could not live in a run down apartment here.

The illegal Mexicans make anywhere from 12.00-20.00 an hour if they are skilled. And its all under the table cash money.

They will pay you 800.00-1,000.00 a month just to live out of your garage.

 

[sammerdog]

$800 to $1000 a month will buy a heckuva lot of house here in the midwest.

Of course at $10 an hour.....

....we're right back to square one, huh?

 

[Merkava_4]

I talked to one of my prospect hires this weekend. He has 20 years experience as a mechanic. He is currently making $400 a week. He asked if I would give his son who is 25 years old a try. He explained that his son is as good if not better than him. He said that if I would hire his son on at $8 an hour he would be happy. He is currently making $8 an hour working as a mechanic for a car lot. We have a state run agency called Workforce that is online. I did a search as if I were looking for a job and found 8 job listings for mechanics at $10 an hour.

Do I plan on following this trend? No. Will I fill my shop up with these guys? No.

Will these guys that are busting knuckles for $10 an hour be happy to just change tires and brakes and do oil changes? Yes. Will I give them raises based on performance and work ethic? Yes.

You can kiss your new business goodbye if you're gonna be hiring techs at $8-$10/Hr. You wont get quality work out of that. Out here in California, lube techs get paid $12/Hr and drivability techs $25-$28/Hr.

 

[krismoriah]

Went to the dealer that is going out of business today and closed some deals.

3 Challenger 2 post lifts barely used ($2500 for all three)

Devilbiss 6.5 HP 80gallon air compessor with all the works and flex hoses..1 year old for $350

Three 20 gallon air evacuation oil drains ($100 for all 3)

3 horizontal tire racks for $200

1 Working Pepsi machine from the 80's for $100


Tomorrow I am going to look at an Ammco 4000 brake lathe for $500 and a Hunter p411 alignment machine and FMC rack for $2500 (he included them in a lease to the new tenants...but they might not be using them so he will sell either now or in a year when their lease is up)


The fun part is getting those lifts out of there....

 

[Wesley B]

Cool, sounds to me like you got some really good deals there. If you can, post some pics so everyone can see how you did.

 

[krismoriah]

I forgot.. He is selling a waste oil heater.. Horizon Model 200 (200,000 BTU) with 2 (250 Gal) storage tanks. He is asking $2000 for the whole lot.

I have been trying to nail down a price for new.. I think it comes to $7500.

I need to take a good look at it tomorrow. It looks almost new. I guess I can resell it if i dont use it.


Will get some pics tomorrow.

 

[Alowes2837]

You have got some good deals there apart from the tire rack at $200 think what it could have cost to build from scrap metal. That is the thing a non tech/engineering background is up against You could have made one yourself for about $90 if that. This thread should not be about the pay per hour like it has been but honest advice to help people like krismoriah. Damn I'm doing the same thing and moving continents to do it and all help and advice is usefull.

 

[Alowes2837]

Just out of intetest what is the going rate rate for a good ase master tech in Orlando as may be looking for one. If this suits anyone mail me as might need to talk.

 

[krismoriah]

The tire racks arent the cheapos that sit outside the shop..they are very very large rack systems for indoor storage. Each rack holds 50 tires. They look like this
http://www.shelving-direct.com/family/metal_point_plus_storage_tire_rack/16.htm#

So if I bought 3 of the above new..it would have cost me $750 plus shipping..whereas I paid $200

I can still back out of anything that I bought along the way. I just commited to these things so that nobody would come in today and ****** them up.

Here is what I missed yesterday..

1)Hunter TC3500 tire changer
2)Hunter DSP 9000 tire balancer
complete with about 200 lbs of weights and all the accessories.. Sold for $2000

3)Toro Wheelhorse Riding Mower from the 1970s.. I really wanted this for myself..it was in mint condition.. it sold for $250

 

[krismoriah]

Alowes2837,

http://www.jobpath.com/CSH/Details....7e2297e14741a9ae108e28ddbd19a6-305243079-wm-6

$11-$22/hr


http://www.careerbuilder.com/JobSee...D&siteid=cbindeed&Job_DID=J8H26377JT154C1R622

$10-$22/hr

 

[35mastr]

Went to the dealer that is going out of business today and closed some deals.

3 Challenger 2 post lifts barely used ($2500 for all three)

Devilbiss 6.5 HP 80gallon air compessor with all the works and flex hoses..1 year old for $350

Three 20 gallon air evacuation oil drains ($100 for all 3)

3 horizontal tire racks for $200

1 Working Pepsi machine from the 80's for $100


Tomorrow I am going to look at an Ammco 4000 brake lathe for $500 and a Hunter p411 alignment machine and FMC rack for $2500 (he included them in a lease to the new tenants...but they might not be using them so he will sell either now or in a year when their lease is up)


The fun part is getting those lifts out of there....

You did very well,Tire racks and all.

This is the kind of stuff that will put you ahead rather than buying new.

As your business grows then you can eventually replace worn out equipment with new.

 

[35mastr]

This thread should not be about the pay per hour like it has been but honest advice to help people like krismoriah. Damn I'm doing the same thing and moving continents to do it and all help and advice is usefull.

The advice is honest. Those kinds of wages will put you under before you start.

A good tech that you dont need to baby sit does not make that kind of money.

 

[e-tek]

I think this experience bears repeating here....

When I left University, the first job I took - because of the money - was manager at a body shop. The owner had NO experience, but was a "businessman". We had 5 office staff, 7 bodymen, 2 painters, 1 FT Certified mechanic, 1 prepper and a janitor. The owner leased a CTS Caddy through the business and leased cars for me and the accountant too. He spent his days out on his yacht, coming in on payday to hand out the checks and pay his 10K a month in rent. We had the best equipment too: 2 booths, computerized mixing equipment, an alignment rack, the works. I was paid $65K a year, the journeymen $28.00/hr. Everyone did well. I'm guessing the owner made close to $100K/yr.

 

[cashishift]

But not all car rotors are going to be that cheap. I would venture to guess those "cheap" rotors will cause a lot of comebacks and headaches. A lot people are'nt going to spend several hundred dollars on new when they can get them resurfaced for around $80.

Resurfacing for 80 bucks

local place here charges 13 bucks a rotor, 8 a drum.

 

[autoace]

I have no idea where you figure $700-800 a month on groceries. You must eat steak for every meal or something!

For a while only my Dad was working and he made about $400/week take home. We did just fine. My Mom spent about $150 every 2 weeks for grocceries.

Now this is mid 90s, but still inflation hasn't go up that high!

While in high school I worked full time and I was making $6.50/hr toward the end. (about 10 years ago)

No, I shop carefully.............family of 4.............tons of inflation, groceries have doubled in the past year and a half. My estimate covers house supplies also, like personal hygene stuff and the like.

I don't know what planet folks live on

 

[Wesley B]

Resurfacing for 80 bucks

local place here charges 13 bucks a rotor, 8 a drum.

He said he was going to charge at least $20 a piece. So, YES $80.

 

[Alowes2837]

Actually those are some nice tyre racks and well worth the money you paid. As I said before I wish you all the best of luck, let us know how things go.

I love e-tek's story, if only things could be that easy. Mind you money does make things easier. If I was paying someone $65k a year I'd expect them to be making me a shed load of profit.

 

[Joe Mamma]

I love e-tek's story, if only things could be that easy. Mind you money does make things easier. If I was paying someone $65k a year I'd expect them to be making me a shed load of profit.

$65k a year AND a car!

Joe Mamma

 

[Fueler]

This got to be a long one. To the original poster. Just some thoughts.
I can't decide if you are wanting to be a quicky lube/tire/brake biz or a high end auto tech center. I can't see being both.

If it's a quiky thing then you need entry level people.
It it's a modern tech shop then you need good experienced people. At least one has to be a whiz with all the electronic systems.

Fleets look like a plum in the beginning but they will beat you silly for price concessions and don't be surprised when you don't get paid close to on time.

This may have been mentioned but for equipment choices why not go 2 towns over and visit shops and ask the pertinent questions?

 

[CarCrafter]

I don't want to be a naysayer here and tell you that starting an auto repair shop is impossible. If you are passionate about it and will devote the necessary energy and capital, then go for it.

Before you get ahead of yourself though, you really do need to nail down a business plan. I see in several posts now that you've mentioned a hypothetical wage bracket for your staff already. Now is that going to be hourly, salary or flat rate? Are you going to have any type of bonus incentive? Who is going to dispatch/ assign the work? Who is going to deal with the customers, greeting, selling ?? How much is this individual going to be compensated? What type of work are you going to perform and what type of work are you going to turn away? What are your hours going to be? How much per labor hour will you charge? What is your warranty policy? What are the state/ local requirements for operating a garage? What are you going to do with regards to hazardous waste? What is your break even? How long will it take for you to recoup your initial investment?

Try to answer some of these questions and you will find that your questions in regards to equipment were elementary.

I too am in a similar predicament, but I am taking my time to develop my business model and to get answered as many of these questions before I flip that light switch on. The better prepared you are, the more likely you'll succeed. I am a ASE Master Tech & L1 with more than 15 years experience. I've been a service manager at little 12 bay tire stores in California, to large multi-line import dealerships that have over 25 techs. I currently work as a line tech at a dealership, and I get paid on the flat rate scale. Do you know what that is? I can tell you that the 20 year old oil change kid would laugh at you if you offered to pay him $10/hr. I'm in Michigan now by the way, the minimum wage in our state is $7.40/hr. He has maybe $1000 in tools, I have about 60 times more invested. Even so, the experience I've gained is probably going to make the most difference in ensuring my business has the best chance of survival. While you don't have that experience, I still wouldn't talk you out of starting this business if it is indeed your dream. I would suggest that you hire the best dam manager that money can buy. If you are serious, you may even want to go and work as a service writer at different shops to gain some experience.

 

[krismoriah]

I claimed the oil burner today with the 2 (250 gallon) tanks.

I got a nice package deal.. Oil burner, Welder, Large Cooling fan, and a $2500 Hotsy steam cleaner for $3500

I am going to look at the Ammco 4000 brake lathe really close tomorrow.. I priced them at about $3000 on ebay.. I think I can get it for $750


Tomorrow I go in with a crew of 4 guys, a hoe and two trucks and trailers. It will be hell.

I dont have alot of time to cover all the bases you asked... you made alot of interesting points.. thanks.

This will be much clearer once I break ground and start building.. I have a crazy mess going on right now with taking advantage of these deals and also still working on the property. I havent went into much detail about the property because I dont want to jinx it. Needless to say I am looking at around .75 acre in a really busy congested part of town. There is a lot beside me going for $400K.. I will get this lot for $15K. (if all goes well).

My partner wants to flip this property instead of build on it.. I am leaning that way too.. to build more capital towards the final result.