lol there is a difference between making a long nose slip joint plier similar in overall design and intended purpose to another and making a long nose slip joint plier that aside from logo is nearly indistinguishable from another brand, down to the thickness and color hue of the grips. Harbor Freight clearly put effort into making a product virtually identical to the Snap-on, perhaps in effort to imply they are from the same factory, whatever the reason, it's bizarre and not equivalent to the ball detent socket retainer
New bestest pliers, SO LN47ACF
- Thread starter Buckgnarly
- Start date
The one thing the Icon stuff is doing differently than SO is the handle material - it's thicker and spongier than what SO is using, and really comfortable.
KnurledNut
Well-known member
Snap-on was likely influenced by Kraeuters three position.
The long nose slip joint design itself went back to the Vacuum Grip era mentioned in post #78.
Pinemarten
Well-known member
I'm betting Kraeuter, and Igarashi used a joint much like the HF pliers use. Snap-on modified the joint enough to get a patent back around 2009. The prior joint geometry would not be patent infringement of Snap-on's intellectual property. If the older joints had been patented, they have long since expired.
Now if HF starts making them in green.......................
Now if HF starts making them in green.......................
I feel like someone at SO has the idea that a patent protects them far more broadly than it actually does, and has marketing value as much as anything else. The latter is true, but only to a point - you have to be able to communicate the "Why" of a patent though. It seems like they're happy enough to use the general public's limited understanding if IP as an outrage shield. They're not alone in that for sure...
Yeah - I never paid attention to handle colors and stuff like that until Snap On came out with that blue (sorta) recently. I like that color a lot...
Only color variety HF offers is on their tool boxes.
I wanted to see if I could visually notice a difference between the HF and the SO joint design in pictures. I don't see the 3 position needle nose on the HF site for some reason, but the regular slip joint is there. Comparing the HF slip joint and the LN47, the center position hole of the three looks "higher", or closer to the plier tip, on the SO than on the HF. Taking a quick look at the patent drawings, I don't see any hard dimensions other than a range of 160-175* in the angles in the slots between the holes. Or it says it could also be 180* . It doesn't seem like 180* should be patentable, unless there's never been a patent granted on that.
So I wonder if the HF uses a 177* angle
It does look less shallow than SO, but pictures can be deceiving.
So I wonder if the HF uses a 177* angle
It does look less shallow than SO, but pictures can be deceiving.
Last edited:
bcradio
Well-known member
It will be out next yearI wanted to see if I could visually notice a difference between the HF and the SO joint design in pictures. I don't see the 3 position needle nose on the HF site for some reason, but the regular slip joint is there. Comparing the HF slip joint and the LN47, the center position hole of the three looks "higher", or closer to the plier tip, on the SO than on the HF. Taking a quick look at the patent drawings, I don't see any hard dimensions other than a range of 160-175* in the angles in the slots between the holes. Or it says it could also be 180* . It doesn't seem like 180* should be patentable, unless there's never been a patent granted on that.
So I wonder if the HF uses a 177* angle
Seems like Icon copied both these Snap On pliers and the Knipex Twin Grip for 2024. Too bad they don't combine them. This Snap On plier with the Knipex adjustable box joint would in my mind be an improvement over the Snap On design. While the original is great, that Knipex hinge would give even a finer adjustment and can't switch out of a position once engaged without pressing the button. Plus a box joint eliminates sideways play - even when old and badly worn, there are no sideways forces if it is supported on both ends.
I wouldn't mind if all adjustable pliers used that design, it just always seems like the best choice.
I wouldn't mind if all adjustable pliers used that design, it just always seems like the best choice.
Wamsutta
Well-known member
LN49ACF would've made more sense since the overall length is 9 inches.
Great idea. Hopefully someone at Knipex lurks here and reads that. Unfortunately, HF is only capable of near exact copies and doesn't innovate at all, down to copying the font on Snap On sockets. Icon will probably release a clone of the smaller version of the LN47, and also in the exact same size. Because, hey, you can't "compare to Snap On" if your otherwise identical plier is 10mm longer or shorter
Meursault74
Well-known member
HF haven't released it yet, but there's a video of it already.Great idea. Hopefully someone at Knipex lurks here and reads that. Unfortunately, HF is only capable of near exact copies and doesn't innovate at all, down to copying the font on Snap On sockets. Icon will probably release a clone of the smaller version of the LN47, and also in the exact same size. Because, hey, you can't "compare to Snap On" if your otherwise identical plier is 10mm longer or shorter
