New build – 35x38x12 deep 3 car attached!

[samweldspoorly]

Greetings everyone. Looking for feedback on this new build. Building a 3,100ft² single story home with 10ft ceilings in Northern Kentucky. The attached garage is 1,300ft² 35’ deep by 38’ wide with a 12’ height to the eve. This garage will be more sq footage than my current stopgap home in Cincinnati. Will be fully drywalled in. 16’ and 8’ garage doors.

Usage. Vehicle maintenance, storage, modification. Light fabrication with welding grinding cutting etc. Storage for beekeeping supplies and general yard work. I love tooling around on cars and building stuff.

Power: want to have 120v outlets basically everywhere I can put them, especially along the backside of the wall where a custom work bench will go. I want 240v outlets at both garage doors for EV chargers, two in the ceiling for a 4-post and 2-post car lift, and one in the back corner for a welder hookup.

Air. I want to put a 60gal compressor in the basement and hardline to the garage. My builder is concerned with routing airline in the rafters because it wont be insulated or heated. But it would be great to have air drops above the car lifts, by one of the garage doors and two along the work bench.

Lighting. Not really sure what to do with this ceiling arrangement. Looking for input.

Doors. Planning on doing jackshaft openers to have to doors ride the contour of the ceiling to not interfere with car lifts.

Feel free to throw in your $0.02 or call me a fkn *****. Cheers!

Drone footage:

 

[samweldspoorly]

Here are the house plans and other shots of the inside. Thinking about putting the 60gal air compressor in the basement (marked by red circle) and running 3/4" black pipe up to the garage and up into the rafters for ceiling drops. This garage isnt currently planned to be insulated or heated, do you think that would be an issue running air? I have an air drier and auto tank drain setup. Also my little doodle is a possible future outbuilding. Thinking about a 40x80 pole.

 

[wssix99]

Lots of this seems intuitive, some have traps and pitfalls. I continue to suffer through many of these...

16’ and 8’ garage doors.

I have 3 - 8' doors. Cars fit through, but I didn't plan for trailers. Many trailers are 8 to 8 1/2 feet wide and won't go through a 8' door. It looks like your ship has sailed here, but this is something you will want to keep in mind as you outfit the inside.

want to have 120v outlets basically everywhere I can put them,

This is outrageously expensive, particularly when you do the math of how often you will use each outlet over the course of its life and where you will need electricity. At the benches and along your work wall, I expect that you will find several quad outlets more useful than more numerous duplex boxes. (This will also bring your cost down.) At benches, industrial power strips will be your friend. The other downside with putting in too many outlets is that it adds circuits to the house which is a big driver in cost.

With such a big garage, you are going to find yourself needing power in the middle of the space often. (Where you are working away from the bench.) You will need extension cords and at this point, having outlets every 12' along the walls will be just fine for you.

I want 240v outlets at both garage doors for EV chargers, two in the ceiling for a 4-post and 2-post car lift

I did this but only did conduit and don't regret it. Saving wires for later was a great call and reduced expense/waste. In the years since I built the house and started acquiring EV's, the specifications and power needs for chargers have changed radically.

and one in the back corner for a welder hookup.

Welding inside a multi-function garage can be problematic. Sparks can smolder for hours (https://www.safety-video-bmsh.com/How-Long-Can-a-Spark-Smolder-_b_45.html) and unless you have an area properly sanitized for hot work, doing these things can be really risky.

So, you might want to also consider a RV-style box on the outside of your garage for 240 so you can do big welding projects outside in the driveway. (I do all of my production welding outside and only do small jobs inside like tack welding on the cars, etc. in the middle of my garage floor.)

Air. I want to put a 60gal compressor in the basement and hardline to the garage. My builder is concerned with routing airline in the rafters because it wont be insulated or heated. But it would be great to have air drops above the car lifts, by one of the garage doors and two along the work bench.

Air lines carry a good bit of moisture, so this is problematic. Since the advent of 20V tools, I have pretty much stopped using my air tools. (They are heavy and come with a lot of grief.) I still use my air nailers because I don't want to buy new tools, but dealing with the air lines and tank isn't worth the grief for auto work. (Particularly with the lightweight battery tools coming out now.) In another 10 years, I expect we'll see air tool systems in the museum next to T-Rex. (So, you might want to reconsider a big investment here.)

My 4 post lift does have an air system for the safety locks. I use a portable air tank instead of a compressor and have never wanted more.

Lighting. Not really sure what to do with this ceiling arrangement. Looking for input.

There are some good threads on the site specifically about lighting but many have some bad info mixed into the commentary. What you don't want to do is put the lights in the middle of your bays. (I did this and regret it. It creates shadows under the cars and under the hoods.) Putting the lights in between the bays provides better working light.

The other thing is that, even though you have higher-than-normal ceilings, you probably do not fall into the proper spec of a "high bay" light. (Home Depot and Lowes have high bay lights installed in their stores.) You have to check the manufacturer's specs to confirm heights and beam spreads and then confirm if its right for your location and application.

 

[Stuart in MN]

This is more of a case of a garage with a house attached, rather than the other way around. Looks like a nice place.

Check the two sticky notes at the top of the lighting section of the forum to get ideas on what light fixtures to use and how many will be needed. There are a number of lighting layouts in there already worked out for various size garages, you may be able to find one that's close to your garage. Of course, these days LED fixtures make the most sense. Keep in mind that lots of times you may not need the whole garage lit up (say you're just working on something at the workbench and aren't moving around the garage) so having several zones you can turn on or off as needed is a good idea.

For electrical outlets you'll probably want several over the workbench or maybe use an outlet strip, for the rest of the garage you can space them out. wssix99 suggested every 12', I think I went every 8' in my garage and I know there are some of them I've never used. A couple 120 outlets in the ceiling for cord reels may be a good idea, for working on things in the middle of the garage.

I'm sure your budget comes into play here, but insulating the garage now will be simpler and less expensive than doing it later. In Kentucky your winters are relatively mild, but with no insulation or heating it will still be pretty chilly out there in January if you want to work on something (and in July it will be awful hot.) As for heating, at least make some plans now if you intend on adding it in the future. A split system heat pump may be a good choice, it can do both heating and cooling.

 

[wssix99]

Another thing to consider is outlet height. I have a bunch of outlets at 4' off the ground. They are great. A few are standard - 1' off the ground. The standard outlets are hell in the garage and a PITA to use.

 

[thammel]

When I did my outlets in my garage, I put them all at 4 feet off the ground. Also, each receptacle box is a double with two separate 20 amp circuits run to each box. The left receptacle on one circuit and the right receptacle on the other.

 

[manwithtools]

I'd put the outlets at 4' -6" off the floor so you can still access the outlets when you have sheet goods leaning against the wall for ongoing projects that come up later down the line. There is nothing more frustrating than not being able to reach an outlet becase 12 sheets of plywood are leaning on the wall blocking access to it.

 

[samweldspoorly]

Lots of this seems intuitive, some have traps and pitfalls. I continue to suffer through many of these...

I have 3 - 8' doors. Cars fit through, but I didn't plan for trailers. Many trailers are 8 to 8 1/2 feet wide and won't go through a 8' door. It looks like your ship has sailed here, but this is something you will want to keep in mind as you outfit the inside.

This is outrageously expensive, particularly when you do the math of how often you will use each outlet over the course of its life and where you will need electricity. At the benches and along your work wall, I expect that you will find several quad outlets more useful than more numerous duplex boxes. (This will also bring your cost down.) At benches, industrial power strips will be your friend. The other downside with putting in too many outlets is that it adds circuits to the house which is a big driver in cost.

With such a big garage, you are going to find yourself needing power in the middle of the space often. (Where you are working away from the bench.) You will need extension cords and at this point, having outlets every 12' along the walls will be just fine for you.

I did this but only did conduit and don't regret it. Saving wires for later was a great call and reduced expense/waste. In the years since I built the house and started acquiring EV's, the specifications and power needs for chargers have changed radically.

Welding inside a multi-function garage can be problematic. Sparks can smolder for hours (https://www.safety-video-bmsh.com/How-Long-Can-a-Spark-Smolder-_b_45.html) and unless you have an area properly sanitized for hot work, doing these things can be really risky.

So, you might want to also consider a RV-style box on the outside of your garage for 240 so you can do big welding projects outside in the driveway. (I do all of my production welding outside and only do small jobs inside like tack welding on the cars, etc. in the middle of my garage floor.)

Air lines carry a good bit of moisture, so this is problematic. Since the advent of 20V tools, I have pretty much stopped using my air tools. (They are heavy and come with a lot of grief.) I still use my air nailers because I don't want to buy new tools, but dealing with the air lines and tank isn't worth the grief for auto work. (Particularly with the lightweight battery tools coming out now.) In another 10 years, I expect we'll see air tool systems in the museum next to T-Rex. (So, you might want to reconsider a big investment here.)

My 4 post lift does have an air system for the safety locks. I use a portable air tank instead of a compressor and have never wanted more.

There are some good threads on the site specifically about lighting but many have some bad info mixed into the commentary. What you don't want to do is put the lights in the middle of your bays. (I did this and regret it. It creates shadows under the cars and under the hoods.) Putting the lights in between the bays provides better working light.

The other thing is that, even though you have higher-than-normal ceilings, you probably do not fall into the proper spec of a "high bay" light. (Home Depot and Lowes have high bay lights installed in their stores.) You have to check the manufacturer's specs to confirm heights and beam spreads and then confirm if its right for your location and application.

Great input, thats exactly what I am looking for. Thank you so much.

Yeah, I agree. I dont typically need a trailer in the garage until I NEED a trailer in the garage, know what I mean? Have the double width door just for that reason.

My biggest complain at my last attached was there was only 2 duplex outlets on a single 15a breaker. So frustrating. I want to have two separate 20a circuits. Good looking out. Quads may be the way to go. And I agree with you, needing power in the middle is a want. Thinking about doing a retractable drop right in the middle or adding a junction box on the car lift post.

For the 240v, I figured doing two 50a circuits, each will have an EV charger on it. One will also service the car lift and spare 240 outlet. The other will also service the welders. At peak output which I never run, these welders only pull 30a. It would be VERY odd to be using any of these at full draw at the same time.

Good point on the air compressor. I suppose you're right. 99% of what I use are 20v tools. I guess I mainly need air for filling tires. Maybe I can downsize the compressor to a 30gal. Its very seldom I need a rotary die grinder. Maybe I should just have one air line fitting and a 50ft reel. I bet that is all I will need. OOH! I have one of those portable air tanks sitting on a shelf. Maybe thats why I should use it for! Thanks!

I should spend some time in the lighting section of this forum to better educate myself. Good call.

Appreciate it, wssix!!!

 

[samweldspoorly]

This is more of a case of a garage with a house attached, rather than the other way around. Looks like a nice place.

Check the two sticky notes at the top of the lighting section of the forum to get ideas on what light fixtures to use and how many will be needed. There are a number of lighting layouts in there already worked out for various size garages, you may be able to find one that's close to your garage. Of course, these days LED fixtures make the most sense. Keep in mind that lots of times you may not need the whole garage lit up (say you're just working on something at the workbench and aren't moving around the garage) so having several zones you can turn on or off as needed is a good idea.

For electrical outlets you'll probably want several over the workbench or maybe use an outlet strip, for the rest of the garage you can space them out. wssix99 suggested every 12', I think I went every 8' in my garage and I know there are some of them I've never used. A couple 120 outlets in the ceiling for cord reels may be a good idea, for working on things in the middle of the garage.

I'm sure your budget comes into play here, but insulating the garage now will be simpler and less expensive than doing it later. In Kentucky your winters are relatively mild, but with no insulation or heating it will still be pretty chilly out there in January if you want to work on something (and in July it will be awful hot.) As for heating, at least make some plans now if you intend on adding it in the future. A split system heat pump may be a good choice, it can do both heating and cooling.

Lol. Good call. Thank you so much for the feedback. I am happy to spend a little more now than to be mad later on. Ill head over to the lighting section and creep around. I appreciate the advice and input! Ill talk to the builder this week about positioning myself for the future in case I want to go minisplit. Cheers!

 

[samweldspoorly]

Another thing to consider is outlet height. I have a bunch of outlets at 4' off the ground. They are great. A few are standard - 1' off the ground. The standard outlets are hell in the garage and a PITA to use.

Funk yeah. Great idea. Adding this to the notes for my electrician.

 

[samweldspoorly]

I'd put the outlets at 4' -6" so you can still access the outlets when you have sheet goods leaning against the wall for ongoing projects that come up later down the line.

Mmmm. Excellent idea. We'll go with 4'6". Thanks!!!

 

[thammel]

When I did my outlets in my garage, I put them all at 4 feet off the ground. Also, each receptacle box is a double with two separate 20 amp circuits run to each box. The left receptacle on one circuit and the right receptacle on the other.

Actually I really think I put them at 54' off the floor....

 

[My Old Tools]

Add a welder plug by the garage door. 120v plugs every 6 feet. USB outlets at the bench.

 

[HoosierMark]

when I built my barn I put an electric cord reel between the doors. I wish I had put one on the ceiling so I could just have the cord dangle near the side of the car but high enough to be easy to reach. I ran an airline from my compressor in the corner up into the attic and down between the doors and several other drops. The line is sloped so any moisture will drain to the drops. Google air lines on this site. There are kits out with line and drops that make the installation simple. I got mine from rural king or tractor supply. By the way I am over in Indiana about 20 miles outside of the I 275 loop.
my barn is 36x60. I placed my two post lift so I could have a car on the lift and pull one half way under it if I needed a parking space.
While your yard is torn up consider running a couple of pvc pipe out past your drive across from the garage. You can put a frost free hydrant out there. Plus you might want to put wiring in for charging a car. (Visitors). Also preps you for that inevitable barn. Your garage sounds great but where you going to go with the tractor/snow plow etc etc.