New Build - BEV-Ready Garage

[68formula]

We're building a garage-under house. I'm planning to put in 240V/60amp for various reasons (welding, vehicle lift, compressor). I figured might as well include service to allow a Class 2 EV charging station, as it might be a good for resale the way the auto industry is going. The plan is not to install the actual charging station, since right now, I'm not really feeling one our future.

Is there anyone who's installed a Class 2 that has some advice? Anything I should know about? All the new developments going up, I've yet to see any incorporating this; which is surprising considering the government is essentially regulating gas and diesels out of existence in the next 10 years.

 

[gtae07]

Several ways to skin the proverbial feline...

Option 1 is to fit a high quality (not builder grade $15 from big box) 14-50R and wire it for 50A. This is plug and play with a lot of chargers. You could add a lower-amp outlet but the industry consensus seems to have settled on 14-50 as the preferred outlet. (Edit: I think technically code will require a GFCI breaker on this)

Option 2 is to run appropriate wires for up to 60A and cap it off somehow. This will allow someone to put their own hardwired unit in later or add an outlet instead.

You could add a charger like the Tesla universal one which will work with just about anything. But that's a few hundred more $.

 

[wssix99]

Is there anyone who's installed a Class 2 that has some advice?

If you don't have the car yet, install conduit bigger than you think you need from the box to the panel. Charging technology is rapidly changing and there's no telling how many amps someone will require a few years from now. 60A may be reasonable today, but in a few years, 80A ore more may be needed.

...If I recall correctly, Tesla's top charger is already up to 80A.

 

[cybrdyke]

Cars coming out now can charge at 48A. There are a few higher priced models (Mach-E, Lightning, etc.) that can charge at 80A. New home builders that are installing infrastructure for EV's in their homes are using 60A circuits to support a 48A charger. That's what I'd do at this point.
CD

 

[Boon]

Our county requires that wed install a charging outlet. My inspector actually recommended that I use the one that our electrician is installing as a hookup for my welder.

 

[larry4406]

Several ways to skin the proverbial feline...

Option 1 is to fit a high quality (not builder grade $15 from big box) 14-50R and wire it for 50A. This is plug and play with a lot of chargers. You could add a lower-amp outlet but the industry consensus seems to have settled on 14-50 as the preferred outlet. (Edit: I think technically code will require a GFCI breaker on this)

Option 2 is to run appropriate wires for up to 60A and cap it off somehow. This will allow someone to put their own hardwired unit in later or add an outlet instead.

You could add a charger like the Tesla universal one which will work with just about anything. But that's a few hundred more $.

We install Option 1 with GFCI breaker in our new homes when purchased by the customer.

 

[mike93lx]

If you don't have the car yet, install conduit bigger than you think you need from the box to the panel. Charging technology is rapidly changing and there's no telling how many amps someone will require a few years from now. 60A may be reasonable today, but in a few years, 80A ore more may be needed.

...If I recall correctly, Tesla's top charger is already up to 80A.

Needed is a strong word. The chargers and car can use them, but for at home charging, typical commuting mileage can easily be replenished overnight on lower charge rates. Many (most?) ev owners don't charge daily as it isn't needed with even a 30a circuit

If this was my setup, I'd throw in a 50a circuit and 14-50 without hesitation.

 

[gleman]

Last time I looked at the Hubbell 14-50 it was obscenely overpriced. At least the price came down somewhat. The Bryant(same company) was much more reasonable.

 

[75gmck25]

I don't have an electric car, but I've also been considering how I could prep for one.

At this point I think I'd wire one of the external RV boxes that have a 14-50, 20 Amp GFCI, and a 30 amp RV receptacle in them. The 14-50 could be used later for a plug-in EV charger, or I could rewire and replace the RV box with a wired EV charger. In my plan I'd like to make a direct run of conduit that is large enough so I could upgrade later from 6 AWG copper to whatever might be required for higher amp chargers.

The other option I've considered is to just wire up a small 60 amp exterior grade sub-panel, and for the time being only add on one 20 amp GFCI receptacle in a waterproof box. It would give me a 120 volt receptacle close to the driveway now, and allow for adding a wired EV charger later on.

 

[dscheidt]

Several ways to skin the proverbial feline...

Option 1 is to fit a high quality (not builder grade $15 from big box) 14-50R and wire it for 50A. This is plug and play with a lot of chargers. You could add a lower-amp outlet but the industry consensus seems to have settled on 14-50 as the preferred outlet. (Edit: I think technically code will require a GFCI breaker on this)

Option 2 is to run appropriate wires for up to 60A and cap it off somehow. This will allow someone to put their own hardwired unit in later or add an outlet instead.

You could add a charger like the Tesla universal one which will work with just about anything. But that's a few hundred more $.

option 0 is install 3/4 emt from the sub to the likely location (or locations) where you'd want a charger. No need to put anything in it. you can pull wire later. 3/4 is enough for 6 awg thhn, which is sufficent for a 60A circuit.

Also, in new construction, I'd think very hard about going to 100A. The cost for a 100A breaker instead of a 60A is 50 or 100 bucks, depending on panel type, and the wire differential is currently about $1.50/ft. 100A is overkill, but it allows for either two cars charging, or a car and substantial other load.

Don't let anyone talk you into a small panel. It's just the electrician making work for themselves. The cost difference for a 20 or 24 space panel instead of a 6 space one is small (it was negative, the last time I bought a six space panel, because there a more 20/24 panels installed than 6 by a huge margin). And remember that you can install a panel with a 100A or 125A main breaker on a circuit protected by a 60A breaker (the main breaker in a subpanel is just a disconnect, not an overcurrent device), and while you don't need a disconnect in a subpanel in the same building as the main, it's very handy.

 

[Denwood]

I charge 16 amps@240V and it's more than enough for my needs. That gets my 40kWh pack fully charged in 10 hours, although it's never charged for that long. You're typically keeping the pack at 40 to 80% charge (that would take 4 hours at night for me) unless you need to go farther. Plugging the car in and just charging to 100% is not good practice if you want to maximize the pack life.
You will only "need" a 30 amp charger if you drive over 200 miles / day, or need to charge faster than 8 hours overnight, regardless of the pack size. Trucks will be less efficient. Keep in mind that EVs continue to improve efficiency at a rather surprising clip. The new Kia Ioniq 6 for example is about 25% more efficient than my 2018 LEAF with respect to kWh/100km.

This calculator is super handy as it gives you range per hour added for various EVs at any voltage/amp rate: https://greencarscompare.com/charging-calculator/
For example, a Tesla Model 3 (RWD) will pick up 29.3 miles of range each hour when charging 30amps@240V. The Ioniq 6 would pick up 32 miles of range at the same charge rate. The Nissan Arriya (AWD SUV) gains about 22.8 miles of range per hour at the same 30amps@240V charge rate.

In other words, unless you are purchasing a Hummer EV (ouch!!), then 30 amps@240V should be lots. The more important consideration IMO is to make sure you accomodate for charging for each parking space inside/outside your shop.

 

[dave*99]

Several ways to skin the proverbial feline...

Cat.......means catfish usually when talking about skinning one. Now if you actually skin a feline....It's an entirely different kind of flying, altogether.

 

[WisJim]

I have two circuits available for car charging. One feeds my level 2 charger in the garage, with the charger arranged so the cord is accessible to the car where it is usually parked. The other feeds an outside box with a Eaton 14-50 receptacle. This will allow another charger to be plugged in or I can use it for a welder. It's in an outside box promoted as an RV receptacle. They are both fed by 40 amp breakers. My level 2 charger maxes at 7.2 kW and I've never been concerned about the charging rate, since it most often charges overnight.

 

[68formula]

Cat.......means catfish usually when talking about skinning one. Now if you actually skin a feline....It's an entirely different kind of flying, altogether.

Despite my decades, I just learned that last week. Funny that it comes up again. Kind of kills my old joke though, "who's skinning cats, and why?"

 

[justsam]

Needed is a strong word. The chargers and car can use them, but for at home charging, typical commuting mileage can easily be replenished overnight on lower charge rates. Many (most?) ev owners don't charge daily as it isn't needed with even a 30a circuit

If this was my setup, I'd throw in a 50a circuit and 14-50 without hesitation.

Many popular home charging systems deliver 48 Amps. A 60 Amp circuit is required to maintain the 80% rule. I agree you don't need much beyond the 48 Amps as that typically gives about 35miles of range for each hour of charge time.

 

[mike93lx]

Many popular home charging systems deliver 48 Amps. A 60 Amp circuit is required to maintain the 80% rule. I agree you don't need much beyond the 48 Amps as that typically gives about 35miles of range for each hour of charge time.

Some systems can deliver 48 Amps. By no means is that standard or required by any stretch. When a car is parked for 12+ hours, why do you need to charge back a daily commute in 1-3?

People should install as much capacity as they want, but shouldn't think that they need multiple 60a circuits to accommodate a pair of ev's

 

[68formula]

The amount of knowledge on this forum is awesome. Glad I found this place, my only wish was that it was even earlier. Thanks to all the responses, it's been extremely informative and helpful so far.

 

[gtae07]

Some systems can deliver 48 Amps. By no means is that standard or required by any stretch. When a car is parked for 12+ hours, why do you need to charge back a daily commute in 1-3?

People should install as much capacity as they want, but shouldn't think that they need multiple 60a circuits to accommodate a pair of ev's

I did it mainly because I could. But that 48 amps has proven useful a fre times, when I found I needed to put a little more juice in during the day. It would also make it practical to use one charger to charge two cars every day within our "super off peak" rate, since I generally get going early enough that I could plug the other car in and still give it 2+ hours to charge at those rates.

 

[Denwood]

Many popular home charging systems deliver 48 Amps. A 60 Amp circuit is required to maintain the 80% rule. I agree you don't need much beyond the 48 Amps as that typically gives about 35miles of range for each hour of charge time.

On an Ioniq 6, that charge rate is getting you ~50 miles of range in an hour of charging. Just pointing that out as efficiencies improve.

 

[cybrdyke]

When a car is parked for 12+ hours, why do you need to charge back a daily commute in 1-3?

there's a few reasons why. Some folks have families and when they get home from work, the kids want to take the car. A couple of hours might be all you get. Sometimes you might get home late or have to get up early, reducing the time you have to charge. I can think of a few more scenarios.
CD

 

[mm08822]

The more you remove the constraints of charging time, the less impact on daily life the technology becomes. = friendlier.

 

[RegeSullivan]

When I wired my sister's lake house garage we chose 100 amp panel fed by a 95 amp breaker from the main panel. The old panel (fuse box) was 30 amp and perfectly adequate. The upgrade, besides badly needing upgrading was to support ev charging. While even 240v 20 amp would have charged quickly enough overnight we wanted a 50 amp outlet for those times when you need to go run errands after the 2 1/2 drive from home to the lake.

 

[reader2580]

My brother built a large house with a four car garage. He wired the entire house himself with help. The garage has wire run to each parking space and terminated in a box with a cover. The wire is good for 50 or 60 amps. The wire is for future EV charging. No receptacle was installed since you never know what might change over the coming years.

 

[Denwood]

there's a few reasons why. Some folks have families and when they get home from work, the kids want to take the car. A couple of hours might be all you get. Sometimes you might get home late or have to get up early, reducing the time you have to charge. I can think of a few more scenarios.
CD

Our EV is used for about 95% of town runs, three drivers. I charge overnight to the level as required so that the cell pack rarely drops below 35-40% by end of day. In four years I’d say the need for a 1-2 hour top has been very low..and we’re on a fairly small 40kWh pack, in zone 7A (winter temps to -35C). 16 amps@240V has been more than adequate over about 3 years or use now. 12 amps@120V was definitely not enough, particularly for cold weather pre-warming at -20 to -30 C.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

If you don't have the car yet, install conduit bigger than you think you need from the box to the panel. Charging technology is rapidly changing and there's no telling how many amps someone will require a few years from now. 60A may be reasonable today, but in a few years, 80A ore more may be needed.

...If I recall correctly, Tesla's top charger is already up to 80A.

tesla used to put in 80A chargers 19.2kW/100A circuit), Pretty sure they stopped and now it's 48A chargers only (11.5kW/60A)

option 0 is install 3/4 emt from the sub to the likely location (or locations) where you'd want a charger. No need to put anything in it. you can pull wire later. 3/4 is enough for 6 awg thhn, which is sufficent for a 60A circuit.

Also, in new construction, I'd think very hard about going to 100A. The cost for a 100A breaker instead of a 60A is 50 or 100 bucks, depending on panel type, and the wire differential is currently about $1.50/ft. 100A is overkill, but it allows for either two cars charging, or a car and substantial other load.

Don't let anyone talk you into a small panel. It's just the electrician making work for themselves. The cost difference for a 20 or 24 space panel instead of a 6 space one is small (it was negative, the last time I bought a six space panel, because there a more 20/24 panels installed than 6 by a huge margin). And remember that you can install a panel with a 100A or 125A main breaker on a circuit protected by a 60A breaker (the main breaker in a subpanel is just a disconnect, not an overcurrent device), and while you don't need a disconnect in a subpanel in the same building as the main, it's very handy.

I agree. put in a 42 space if you're gonna pay for a panel! THIS! IS! GJ!!!

 

[428PI]

I just installed a 14-50 plug today. Used 3 ft of 6-3wire and a 50 amp breaker. Plug was a Legrand Pass Seymour from Menards. Cost 10 bucks. Said it's for ev charging on info. Full width bladed plug and wires go out bottom. Cost. 200 bucks including 32 amp charger. CHarged up my Bolt from 100 miles to 199 in less than 3 hrs.