New build plans, framing on block ????

[Nch209]

So I have chosen a builder for my detached garage build. As mentioned in another thread, I'll do my best to document it once we get rolling. Short version is 30x50x12 with 3 doors on the load bearing side, (2) 10x9 and (1) 12x10 with attic truss upstairs.

So my latest question, the footer and framing. Builder has quoted the build to have 6 courses of block above ground level, and framing 8' on top of that, so 4' of block plus 8' of stick to give me 12' ceiling height.

Question---- should I go 2' of block and 10' of framing instead????

4+8 may be easier to finish (????), but I think the 2+10 would look better? Any opinions either way? 4+8 will keep all of my electrical up high too- but its a garage, so no big deal.

I currently have him pricing the 2+10 option, so don't know the $$$ difference yet. Other options, although not helping budget, would be to keep 4+12 and brick case the front and make it look better, or use split face block.

Any opinion folks! All insight welcome. I'm sure you can envision 2+10 and here is a 4+8 I found online.

For what its worth, my grade falls towards the front on the building by 1.5-2 feet from rear to front.... So fairly level.

Thanks!!!

 

[southalabama]

Build it any way you want.

To your eye 2 plus 10 looks better.

To my eye 4 plus 8 looks better. Keeps splash off the wood.

I'm not writing the checks. You are.

 

[machsnell]

I took my block on my graage i just built to a foot off the ground and did 12 foot ceilings.

I like the 2 10 better but split face on 4 8 would look nicer. or smooth block and save up to lick and stick stone veneer someday.

4 8 is a shade better at keeeping thieves out if that is a concern.

good luck

 

[Tdoriot]

The tall block isn't very appealing. Split face might be a bit more pleasing, but has a commercial look. You must be in an area where block is common. As a custom home builder in Washington, we use only reinforced poured concrete. The only place you see CMU is commercial buildings in our state.

 

[72Anthony]

The tall block isn't very appealing. Split face might be a bit more pleasing, but has a commercial look. You must be in an area where block is common. As a custom home builder in Washington, we use only reinforced poured concrete. The only place you see CMU is commercial buildings in our state.

He can always finish it off with a stone veneer...at least on the front...to make it look nicer.

 

[Nch209]

Thanks for the opinions all! I enjoy reading and appreciate them all. A lot will come down to the price difference, but since stone veneer was mentioned- can it be placed on the block like pictured in the above picture in my first post?

That may be a cool option! (Especially since I wouldn't need many square of it, although I don't know its price of course, but less square the better, lol)

Thanks
-Nate

 

[boobag]

i think i'd go 4' if you did stone veneer or split face.

and how will the inside be finished. will the block be exposed. are you drywalling the interior?

 

[Tronyadorable]

That's called " sokalo" where I live. It's the ONLY way to build. Form a tie beam up top, put a rebar in every other cell and call it a day. Insects ? No problem. Flood ? No problem.

 

[Tronyadorable]

BTW This is a tie beam. You have the "footer" below. The " beam' up top all tied together with rebar top to bottom.
Yeah. I'm THATzzz good

 

[Nch209]

i think i'd go 4' if you did stone veneer or split face.

and how will the inside be finished. will the block be exposed. are you drywalling the interior?

Inside will be insulated and drywall, but will leave the block exposed either way (2 or 4 foot will be exposed, at most maybe an epoxy coat to give some color, but probably bare for a while.

 

[Nch209]

That's called " sokalo" where I live. It's the ONLY way to build. Form a tie beam up top, put a rebar in every other cell and call it a day. Insects ? No problem. Flood ? No problem.

BTW This is a tie beam. You have the "footer" below. The " beam' up top all tied together with rebar top to bottom.
Yeah. I'm THATzzz good

I'm impressed! Thanks for info and pic!

 

[ynned]

You may want to consider that there will be a ledge on the inside, at the top of the block due to the diffefence in block vs framing thickness. The height of that ledge may interfer with cabinet installation, etc. I used 8" block 2 feet above the floor, with 8 foot 2x4 framing on top. Now the upper cabinets are an extra 4" give or take back from the edge of the counter top, which makes them kind of a pain to reach.

 

[Rosco]

To keep cost down I would use split face block. Stay with the 4' height and use 2x6 framing. After the framing is finished, you will only have a small lip at the top. Not sure of where you are, but the thicker cavity will allow more room for wiring, insulation etc.

 

[Farrier]

Is there any cost advantage to using above ground block for the first feet?

In my current 22x24, it has a poured footer, 6" high above ground. I like it for washing the floors, but's that about it.

 

[ynned]

Is there any cost advantage to using above ground block for the first feet?

In my current 22x24, it has a poured footer, 6" high above ground. I like it for washing the floors, but's that about it.

Way back when I did it, it was the cheaper way to raise the ceiling. If you're not required to have a below frost line footer, it probably isn't.

 

[Nch209]

To keep cost down I would use split face block. Stay with the 4' height and use 2x6 framing. After the framing is finished, you will only have a small lip at the top. Not sure of where you are, but the thicker cavity will allow more room for wiring, insulation etc.

You think split face would be cheaper? If so, that's the way I'll go. I like your 2x6 idea too..... I mentioned it, but builder said it wasn't necessary- which is possibly true, but it should be a marginal price difference, huh? Time to do it is now.

Can't wait till I get started, but quite a bit of excavation work all while fighting the nasty weather. Thanks for the opinions!

 

[finn]

I did split face plus framing on mine.

Looks good, at least to my eye.

 

[Rosco]

You think split face would be cheaper? If so, that's the way I'll go. I like your 2x6 idea too..... I mentioned it, but builder said it wasn't necessary- which is possibly true, but it should be a marginal price difference, huh? Time to do it is now.

Can't wait till I get started, but quite a bit of excavation work all while fighting the nasty weather. Thanks for the opinions!

Split face will not be cheaper than normal block, but a lot cheaper than any alternative to make it look better. I have split face on mine and get compliments all the time. Also regret not doing the 2x6 framing. Every time I ran wires, plumbing etc. I regretted using 2x4's. i actually had to fur out parts of my walls to fit everything in. Once covered, the 2x6 wall looks great over the block, almost like a reveal on window trim.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

If you ever think you will have a lift, go a little over 12 ft. Possibly one more row of block. Many lifts require something like 12ft and a few inches, and with a 12 ft ceiling it usually comes out just under 12 ft after finishing and lighting. Give yourself a little extra.

Charles

 

[CTyankee]

If you intend on insulating a building wouldn't this be an issue?

 

[ms fowler]

If it was me, I'd frame with 2X6 regardless of whether the builder thinks its "unnecessary". I'd sheath the entire framed wall with OSB, or even plywood--not just at the corners.

 

[JCByrd24]

We don't know where you are located but if this is an insulated building where you have somewhat cold winters you should consider how poor an insulator all that block is and have an insulation strategy for it if you are going to heat the building. My guess is it will be cheaper to do 10' or even 12' (on 1 course of block) lumber once you factor in all the cost a labor to insulate and cover the insulation over all that block.

 

[xyster101]

Block is hard to put a finish on, it's a poor insulator, can't run wire through it, labor intensive to lay, and doesn't look as nice as siding. If you have 1' overhangs and gutters you will not need to worry about rain splash from the roof. Less block is my vote.

 

[Nch209]

Thanks to all the comments and suggestions!

Well the prices just came back from the builder, and just what I was worried about, mooorrrreee money! Trying to keep a budget! Again, this is on 30x50x12, and these prices are in addition to my current quote considering 4' block plus 8' 2x4 stick.

This is to upgrade to 10' (2x4) wall with 2' of block ------$950.00
This is to upgrade to 8' (2x6) wall with 4' of block -------$1150.00
This is to upgrade to 10' (2x6) wall with 2' of block------$1850.00

I think I'd like most 2x6x10 plus 2' block, but price is up there. I'm not a builder, but price difference between 2x4 / 2x6 is about two and a half bucks, making the above quote of simply upgrading the 8' wall to 2x6 pricy. What say you folks?

Help me decide!
Thanks!
Nate

 

[boobag]

well, what state are you in, so we have an idea of climate?

 

[Nch209]

well, what state are you in, so we have an idea of climate?

In the Northern VA area. So a broad range of temps, but nothing too extreme. Will not being doing heat/cooling yet (budget reasons) but may down the road.

Thanks!
Nate

 

[boobag]

like mentioned before, the blocks provide no insulation. if it were me, i'd do the whole wall wood, and skip the exposed block. and you wont have a step or ledge inside, which will make organizing against the wall more difficult.

 

[Nch209]

^

Thanks for you opinion. I want it off the ground some just for washing vehicles, and to landscape/backfill just a tad to keep my ground contour close to the same. Ideally, I want 2+10 via 2x6 but the added $$$ is blowing my budget and I'm sure other things will pop up as I progress. Decisions decisions!

 

[7th Kahuna]

It sounds like this project is going to be completed in stages? If it came down to it, build with 2x4 and then later fir out the walls on an as-needed basis. Potentially you could even just fir out directly behind your cabinets (that is if reach were an issue for you.)

 

[ford33]

You may want to check into concerns with split face block absorbing water and causing wood rot. Split face block needs regular maintenance to keep water absorption to a minimum. In cold climates the block may fail due to freeze thaw cycles. Google issues with split face block.

I am not saying you should not use split face block, as it does look nice, but be aware of the maintenance requirements.

 

[machsnell]

i would go with 2' block if thats what you want and definitely frame with 2x6 not only for insulation but for wires and duct if you ever decided to.

I built my garage and wish i had done some things differently and wanted to finish it more as i moved from only wanting a covered space to wanting to pimp out my covered space. i was really glad i had 2/6's and i upped my truss bottom cord to 2x8 for thicker insulation. i have attic space so i couldnt just thicken the blown in.

it all costs and thats where you have to make some decisions. if you did do the 4' yes you can put lick and stick stone veneer on the block. For that matter you can put real stone on plywood. so the block height doesnt matter for that only for your car washing and landscaping concerns.

 

[Nch209]

So glad I posted this! 2x4 is out, and 2x6 is in! Leaning towards 2+10 setup, but scratching my head on costs. Above prices seem high---- I mean I'll be reducing block/labor, and increasing stick/outside finishing, but still seems pricy. Any opinions on the near $2000 price increase to go 2+10 route with 2x6? Hope that makes sense!

 

[zTimbo]

So glad I posted this! 2x4 is out, and 2x6 is in! Leaning towards 2+10 setup, but scratching my head on costs. Above prices seem high---- I mean I'll be reducing block/labor, and increasing stick/outside finishing, but still seems pricy. Any opinions on the near $2000 price increase to go 2+10 route with 2x6? Hope that makes sense!

Just chalk the price difference up to money well spent.

 

[boobag]

the 2k increase seems like a bit much, since you'll be saving on the brick. does this include drywall and insulation?
besides that, build it the way you want, so that you dont regret it later.

 

[Nch209]

^

Does not include drywall/insulation.

Builder made a good point; since I'll be building "into a hill/grade", even though slight, I probably have 1.5 feet of fall over the 30' depth.... So may be nice to have the extra block to keep the framework off the ground, and also could take the grade up even higher than the existing grade to ensure water gets away quickly. Will hit it with a transit tommorow to verify grade runout.

So in short, going to 2x6, and likely 4+8 block/stick. Now the question is do I need a barrier on the exterior or the block that will be underground. Builder says no on garage, I'm leaning towards yes. Time to search the forum!!!

Thanks for the insight!

 

[boobag]

i'd put some sort of barrior. even if its just placing 6mil plastic sheething against the wall.
or get some sheets of ownes corning formular, and lay it sideways along the walls. costs @25 for 2" thick or @14 for 1" thick.....for a 4x8 sheet.
if you dont put any kind of barrier, you will get moisture seeping in from the ground.

 

[boobag]

or ask your builder to go 9+3. 9' plywood and 9' precut 2x6 studs are readily available, and will be easier for them.

 

[724tim]

30x50x10 1 course of blocks above grade then 10ft walls
3 10x8 doors

[/IMG]

 

[machsnell]

the slab and your block should have a vapor barrier. As one posted even if only 6 mil plastic.

You could do it right and after they put up block get some roll on asphaltic type foundation sealer to apply below grade.

If you want to do it even better and on a dime roll on sealer and then get some 10 mil plastic available at a concrete supply place or commercial builder supply house. we have virginia contractors supply which has it.

Put the ten mil right on the sealer and you will be dry as long as you dont scratch it with rock when you backfill.

More expense but added insulation is to install some 2" insulation board over the block to keep the cold from coming through the block. A little pricey but long run more comfortable if you decided to insulate.

3 or 4 feet doesnt add enough pressure to need drain tile but i would do it because i dont like water issues and it relieves pressure on block.

I would have every third or fourth cell of the block filled with concrete or grout and a stick of rebar but builder should do that.

The sealer and plastic is a simple cheap insurance route that you could do yourself.

Block ***** up moisture which will wick up to you PT base plate. It also will make interior damp.

This goes for your slab also. Having plastic vapor barrier underslab at a minimum will keep your concrete dry and it wont feel "moist".

I did insulation under my slab before i poured. I love it. The floor is a big radiator so cold in winter if on 55 degree or lower ground.

 

[machsnell]

you could also step the block so it wasnt 4 foot alll the way around.

The issue here is if you decided to insulate you would basically have to stud out in front of the block and lose that space or deal with the block not being insulated which is a huge source of cold.

So if everything below grade is block and above grade is wood you would insulated better.

Only if you plan to. If not then keep block level around.

It isnt that big a deal to step the block once or twice.