New Build - Recommendations

[nbuch]

Hey All, new here. Located in Central Wisco and am planning a new build for next year. Going detached, roughly 20' away from house (garage will sit to the west of the house). Currently getting all my grading done so it can settle over the winter. Size of garage is looking like 50x32 w/10'-0" lean-to off west gable end. Id like (3) 10x9 overhead doors so im thinking of a 10'-4" height with scissor trusses. 2x6 framing. Metal exterior > insulated > metal interior.

Looking for floor drain recommendations. Slot drains would be great, but would it be necessary to have one for each door location, sounds pricey?? Or run one common East-West slot drain? Or dont use a slot drains at all and just have 3 standard Floor Drains piped to one outlet? Plan is to run any drain pipe to 55gal drum filled w/ clear stone and has holes to leach out, or something along those lines. Will most likely have a sink waste line as well. Only to be used to wash up before going into house, so not going to produce a lot of grey water. I attached my latest plans that I keep modifying as I come up with new ideas. Any input much appreciated, open to any ideas or recommendations! Thanks all!

 

[duneslider]

Why do you feel like you need/want floor drains? Is this a shop, or are you planning to park wet snowy vehicles? If primarily a shop then I would not do a slope or drains. Keep it flat and if you do have a little moisture on occasion squeege it out the door.

 

[nbuch]

Not going to be used for a primary shop, although will do some wrenching here. Snow/Ice covered vehicles in Wisco during the winter can leave you with a mess on the floor if there are no drains.

 

[HoosierBuddy]

I have been involved with a couple of builds with floor drains.

One was commercial, required inspections, and the required design features to protect the groundwater from being affected by some future spill were so onerous that the floor drains are completely useless.

The other was residential and works great. There, the floor was sloped to central round drains in each parking bay. Those drains fed a single trunk line which exited the side of the garage, and went to a sump with a grate in a grassy area. The sump had an outlet that fed a french drain system through a congregated pipe with holes.

So, with "fender bergs" or other small slow sources of water, the drains take it out to the sump and it dissipates into the ground. With larger flows, the sump in the yard fills above the outlet and the outlet takes water to the french drain (essentially corregated pipe with holes in a trench filled with crushed limestone. If water flow becomes excessive (maybe someone is washing a car?) The drain will overflow the sump causing water to come out of the grate in the top of the sump and flood the yard in that area rather than back up into the floor drains and flood the garage.

Works great for drainage.

That being said, some jobs (like alignment work) would really benefit from a flat-floor and may not be able to be done if the floor all slopes to the drains...so it is a bit of a trade-off.

 

[dcg9381]

As others have mentioned the difficulty of a "floor drain" is going to vary by where you are.. From "really easy" to "really hard".

One thing I catch (assuming you don't have a drawing for the concrete / foundation). You need to illustrate slope on that foundation. Concrete is never completely flat, so you need to slope it to drain(s).

Where your garage doors come down also needs drawing detail, you want cutouts for the garage doors to drop into (or specific slopes at the door). I substantially prefer a 1" drop at the door opening as water can't travel up from that step-down.

I've seen concrete guys build it to plan so many times - basically flat slab, then you're dealing with water that doesn't go where you want it to go or you can't keep it from seeping under the garage doors... A "good" GC taught me, if it's not in the plan, you lose all your leverage when they do it wrong.

Great looking building!


Here's an example of what I'm talking about:

 

[nbuch]

This is what I was initially picturing, but seems to be a lot of pitching going on. Which lead me to a possible central slot drain running E-W, and then youre just dealing with pitching toward the center from the north and south sides.. Ill have to discuss with concrete guy when i get one on board. As much as I would prefer a flat slab, I cant stand the amount of puddling that happens in the winter from "fender bergs"!

The other was residential and works great. There, the floor was sloped to central round drains in each parking bay.

@dcg9381 All valid points! Once I make final decisions on drains, I will for sure include on my plan!

 

[manwithtools]

Where your garage doors come down also needs drawing detail, you want cutouts for the garage doors to drop into (or specific slopes at the door)

^ This is very much a personal preference thing. I hate the door pockets because it makes rolling things in and out of the shop a pain in the ***. I much prefer the door lands on an area that is sloped slightly to the outer edge of the slab. Good door seals have prevented water intrusion on my old shop for over twenty years.

 

[manwithtools]

Nice looking building, similar to the one I recently had built - 32' x 48' x 12'. I would recommend making the back roll up door slightly larger, I did an 8 x 8 and wish it was a 8 x 9 or 10 x 10 to make driving vehicles into the backyard easier. Depends on your property configuration as to the need or not of a larger door. I did a trench drain in one of the bays in my build, specially for washing vehicles in the winter time. The rest of the shop is flat floors, but this is more of a working shop than a daily garage. I think talk to the concrete folks in your area, get their input on how to drain / slope your floor best.

The 10' 4" height is a bit odd. Typically buildings are built with 2 foot increments in heights (8', 10', 12', etc.) This minimizes waste of lumber and materials. With metal building it's not so much of an issue as the metal will be cut to any size you want before it's delivered to your build site. Just something else to think about.

 

[dcg9381]

^ This is very much a personal preference thing. I hate the door pockets because it makes rolling things in and out of the shop a pain in the ***. I much prefer the door lands on an area that is sloped slightly to the outer edge of the slab. Good door seals have prevented water intrusion on my old shop for over twenty years.

I'm totally good with that way of doing it... My point is broadly that it has to be in the plan. Seems like the OP hasn't included that detail until he figures out the drain issue. Just didn't want him to miss the detail, because it's probably one of the more common mistakes I've seen and not easily fixed when the concrete guys do it to spec.

 

[nbuch]

The 10' 4" height is a bit odd.

I would agree. Only reason for this is I would prefer 9' high doors, wasnt exactly sure if those jive with 10' sidewalls or if that allowed adequate space for headers. I did find a very similar build that was called out at 10'-4" with 10x9 doors, so i just rolled with it. Not set in stone, these are more or less something to start the discussion with local builders and adjust as necessary. For sure on the 50x32, height not so much yet. 12' seems overkill for this specific build unless I was planning on a lift, which I currently have no need to put one in here.

 

[manwithtools]

If 9' foot doors are your goal, you could easily go with low clearance door tracks and have a 10' wall height. This would likely force you to shaft openers, which I prefer any way, due to their quietness and less clutter on the ceiling. With your 6/12 roof pitch and a 3/12 Scissor truss on a 10' top plate height, you would still have room for lift later on if you decide to add one. If there is even a remote chance you might add a lift, then I would get tracks that follow the ceiling pitch. Things to think about...

BTW, you came to the right place to ask these questions! No place better on the internet.

 

[nbuch]

And thats the exact reason I posted this! When we built our house in '21, we pre-planned so much stuff and asked endless amounts of questions. The feedback is priceless, especially on things that get overlooked.

Ive really gotta give these drains alot more thought. Basically, its 3 round drains vs 1 common long slot or trench drain.

Appreciate the input guys!

 

[Codyboy]

I would agree. Only reason for this is I would prefer 9' high doors, wasnt exactly sure if those jive with 10' sidewalls or if that allowed adequate space for headers. I did find a very similar build that was called out at 10'-4" with 10x9 doors, so i just rolled with it. Not set in stone, these are more or less something to start the discussion with local builders and adjust as necessary. For sure on the 50x32, height not so much yet. 12' seems overkill for this specific build unless I was planning on a lift, which I currently have no need to put one in here.

My garage has about a 4 inch curb sloped to 6 inches and 10ft studs.

 

[Jackfre]

Looks like a really nice space. In looking at the drawing with the building being only 20’ away from the house is the shading it is going to give the house. You might consider a hip off the E/W ends to lower that point. It also gives you the opportunity to tie the west end shed roof in a bit higher giving higher walls to the shed and that full width. When looking at the whole build the shed is kind of an after thought, but even at 30x50 it is really valuable space. It can take the clutter, even in a 30x50, less of a problem. Also that west exposure on the roof would be the place for a solar system to run the place. I did that and zeroed my electric bill.

 

[nbuch]

@Codyboy you saying you have a 4" curb around the perimeter, that slopes to 6" at the low point? My In-laws shop has a similar curb the walls are built on, just no slope, flat slab.

 

[nbuch]

@Jackfre great suggestions! One of those things that easily gets overlooked. In relation to the house and its orientation, I wouldnt be too concerned with shading, although it is a valid point to bring up! That would be great to zero out that electric bill!

 

[racecougar]

I'd definitely recommend adding a stem wall to get the framing/sheeting up off the pad. I agree that sloping the pad at the doors is less of a PITA to deal with than a door pocket.

 

[CraigStu]

What does you county permit department say about garage drains? Often they require elaborate systems to catch the oil that they 'know' you will spill and wash into the drain. BTW I have had built 2 different add-on garage bays. Both were built w/ concrete footers topped w/ block walls going 2-3 blocks above ground level. Both builders said, if you want wall height, block is less expensive than studs. In my cases those 2-3 blocks plus standard 8ft walls got me 10ft ceilings. Also never any worry about the walls rotting out at the bottom from rain splash.

 

[finn]

That large building is too close to the house, in my opinion, and is going to diminish resale value.

If you can’t move it farther away, make it smaller.

My 32x50 is about 150 feet from the house, close to the county road.

The 10’ wall height is too low if you plan on a future lift, but being that close to the house, that’s about max from an aesthetic perspective.

My experience with floor drains: two houses in the Chicago area with no drains but sloped floors. Unheated ( most of the time). Fender burgs and ice buildup were issues for a couple months of late winter, until I installed a NG heater. Doesn’t take much to keep the slab above freezing if you start heating in, say, mid December.

One detached in the UP. No heat, round drain, no pitch, six or eight inch (!) slab: drain froze in Early January, and didn’t thaw until income tax day.

32x54 in the UP. Flat, 4”/6” , with slot drains. Sporadically heated with a wood stove. No ice, as long as the slab was above freezing.

Shop in the UP: flat floor, hydronic floor heat, large (18”x36”?) floor drains leading to an oil separator, mandated by the county inspector. Best of all worlds (except for the dip by one of the doors that lets water pool in a driving rain. The water pooling is this week’s next project)

Summary: It’s probably best to consider keeping the slab above freezing rather than prioritizing a floor drain of some type. If the slab freezes, a drain doesn’t do much. A sloped floor has advantages over a flat floor with a drain, I think, ie no traps/ pipes to periodically flush, and no intrusion under the OH doors. Drains also complicate lift installations if that’s on your radar.

 

[nbuch]

Primary purpose of this build is simply a garage, with minimal wrenching being done, unless its on lawnmowers, utvs, small stuff... etc.. We have a shop just down the road that has a lift so the likelihood of a lift going in is pretty much slim to none. I would be building 12' walls if that were the case. Plan is to keep temperature around 50deg during winter, which will melt any ice/snow from vehicles overnight. This is the current situation in family shop down the road. Water pools though, as there are no drains in that slab, and it does not tend to dry up overnight. As far as proximity and resale, not a concern. We built our forever home on the farmstead. Ill die in this huckleberry, unless my kids put me in a home. Then they can deal with it.

 

[TurnipTruck]

I asked my concrete guy for a “shovel-wide” trench 10 feet inside the overhead doors. The 2-post is 30’ in from the doors on the flat half of the floor. No drain pipe; I pump it out once or twice a winter and so far need to shovel it out only every 7 or 8 years.
I covered it with 2x6s during construction but now have scraps of grating.

 

[theoldwizard1]

One was commercial, required inspections, and the required design features to protect the groundwater from being affected by some future spill were so onerous that the floor drains are completely useless.

The other was residential and works great. There, the floor was sloped to central round drains in each parking bay. Those drains fed a single trunk line which exited the side of the garage, and went to a sump with a grate in a grassy area. The sump had an outlet that fed a french drain system through a congregated pipe with holes.

Check local codes !

Many places make you do the first even for residential floor drains !

 

[jbailey927]

A couple of thoughts:

1. Utilize driveway grade instead of door pockets to keep water out of your building, pockets get overwhelmed quickly and I have been amazed at how much stuff i roll in and out of my garage.

2. I do not have a drain in my garage, and it is one of the few things I regret not spending the money on.

3. From my experience with others, I would run a drain in the middle of each bay and tie them all together, this would reduce your grade requirements and reduce amount of wet floor and slip potential from melting vehicles as this seems to be the primary moisture source. And gravity does the work for you, you’re not pushing or moping water to a drain.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I asked my concrete guy for a “shovel-wide” trench 10 feet inside the overhead doors.

Smart ! A trench is NOT a drain !

 

[nbuch]

A couple of thoughts:

1. Utilize driveway grade instead of door pockets to keep water out of your building, pockets get overwhelmed quickly and I have been amazed at how much stuff i roll in and out of my garage.

2. I do not have a drain in my garage, and it is one of the few things I regret not spending the money on.

3. From my experience with others, I would run a drain in the middle of each bay and tie them all together, this would reduce your grade requirements and reduce amount of wet floor and slip potential from melting vehicles as this seems to be the primary moisture source. And gravity does the work for you, you’re not pushing or moping water to a drain.

1. We are in sand country and garage will be elevated similar to house, where grade gradually slopes from building. Not a fan of the door pocket idea, just my opinion.

2. Hear that from everyone in my area.

3. Exactly what im leaning toward. Been chatting a with a few locals who have more experience than I and this seems to be the common consensus. May have some small spots to squeegee, but ill take that over no drains and a mess.

Again, this is all preliminary as im not planning to pour until next summer. But here is my thought after posting this. Could change in a day/month/next year, who knows.

 

[jives]

No particular opinion on a drain for the garage, but we handle snow/rain with an old carpet. Also keeps the floor clean. Floor is dead flat as it is also a workshop.

 

[Mezz2006]

I'm also locate in Central WI. I just put up a 44w x 56d and went with a trench/slot drain across the 44' section. Everyone I talked to in my area recommended a drain. Was it necessary? I'm not sure yet. Do i regret it? Not yet. Looking back, with having the in floor heat, it probably isn't needed. My slope is ~.5" over a distance of 10' from the door and 26' to the enclosed wood shop at the back.

 

[puttinonthekritz]

Make the rear garage door the same size/style as the front three. The extra width for a lawnmower and deck or atv parked next to one another is nice breathing room. Plus interchange parts/panels for replacement if needed, as everything is the same. Additionally, all the door headers/framing materials should be the same then too.
I would change the two rear casement windows to smaller 'piano style' or transom style windows. That way the whole back wall can be used for cabinets or benches or shelving and you still have natural light. Maybe an 18"tall x 4ft wide, each. Placed around the 8-9ft height.

 

[nbuch]

Those are great suggestions! Im hesitant to switch the back wall windows, only because then I couldnt shoot deer out of them. HAHAHA!

 

[Ak Jim]

I wouldn’t want to have a garage with out a floor drain. Nothing like going out to the garage in the middle of winter and giving your vehicle a wash and wax. Maybe put drains in two of the stalls and leave one flat. How many cars do you regularly drive in the winter? Some people have a nice car they only drive in the summer so no drain is needed and it’s also nice to have one completely flat stall.

 

[HoosierMark]

Mine is 36x60. I put 3 in about 12 foot in from the center of each door. My thought was I would keep the water closer to the door and away from tools or stored items. I was going to put 3 doors in but ended up with two 16 foot wide instead. I decided one bay would be used for storage,work bench etc. I am pleased with the design

 

[mrhemi426]

My shop / garage is very similar to the OP's proposal' albeit attached to the house. Regarding floor drains, I put one in each bay for the reasons the OP mentions. In the dry months of the year, the traps would dry out and emit a stench (connected to the storm drain, NOT the sanitary). I finally plugged the drains as I got tired of having to refill the traps and purchased three under car mats to catch winter meltage, then squeegee the water out the door. No more smell and no stains on the concrete floor.