New build

[edl]

I have a 28 by 38 space inside of a larger block Warehouse to use as garage space

It is a corner but I still think I'm going to frame the whole thing out so that I can insulate it and for things hanging off the wall like cabinets or racks I will not have to drill right into the block

Framing out the walls seems pretty straightforward even though I never done it

Framing out for a garage door to get cars in and out a person door and a window seem a little more complicated but not overly so

The ceiling however I'm not sure about

One option if they can be run this long is to double up 2x12 or triple them, lagged, and make a really long 28-foot joist... Can I do that? Is there some point at which the joist is too long and sags? All the joist would be holding is drywall on top and drywall on the other side the weight of insulation and some lighting fan and other ceiling fixtures - if you can do that, what is the proper way of attaching the joist at each wall?

Alternatively I could support the joist from the top kind of like a suspended ceiling in an office building there are steel girders way up high that I could use clamps and threaded Rod to come down and support them from the top... Would that be better? The thing I'm trying to avoid is having to build columns inside of the space to support the ceiling

If it isn't obvious I've never done this before and so sorry if these are very basic questions

Thanks in advance for your suggestions

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[ynned]

I can't remember what they're called, but a friend's house has some pretty chintzy looking things for long floor joists. Just maybe about a 1 foot piece of 1/2" OSB glued into grooves routed into the flat sides of 2x4s. Like a cheap I-beam. I'm pretty sure they're over 20 foot long, and would be easy and cheap to make.

Edit: Here ya go.

 

[JohnK007]

If I am envisioning this right you want to build two walls in the corner of a warehouse to enclose the space. One 28 feet wide, the other 38 foot long? From the 38 foot length, you want to run 28 foot joists to the block wall for a ceiling since the existing ceiling of the warehouse is too tall. Is this it in a nutshell? Oh, and you want it clear span.

In checking my span calculator the maximum span of a 2x12 (southern yellow pine) is 24'7", and that's 16" OC. So that's out. It would also cost a fortune. A possible alternative might be to use floor trusses. Those can easily span 28 feet. If you're absolutely sure the ceiling won't be used for storage above, you might get by placing them 4' OC and run 2x4 purlins underneath as a nailing base for your drywall. Think a pole barn's roof in reverse.

Something to think about. I'm sure others will be along shortly with more ideas.

Here's what I was thinking about.

Dennis's idea of using I-joists is a good one. Might work out cheaper too. I don't know.

 

[edl]

Thanks guys on the floor walls it's a little bit different I'm not thinking about using the two block walls of the corner of the warehouse as my walls I'm thinking of framing out those two walls and then framing out the two walls that would just sit out in open space and that way I would have wood drilling into the block for anything that has to be hung on the wall as for the ceiling it's the question that was the question asked above just wanted to make that clear thanks

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[JohnK007]

OK, I'm still a little confused. You want to frame out the block walls but not have to attach anything directly to the block? Then build out the two remaining free standing walls, and put in a ceiling? Am I on the right track?

First question: This warehouse you're doing this in, do you have ownership rights? Is this going to be a more or less permanent situation? If it's not your building I think I would take a lesson from the commercial office building people and frame out the walls with metal studs, securing the top to the existing steel roof trusses and shoot the bottom plate. Then have someone come in and hang a drop ceiling grid to whatever height you want. You'll be making no structural changes to the building and if the relationship sours, this can all be taken down fairly easily. Speaking of structural changes, you mentioned a couple doors and a window to your space. Now you're into major work that's going to require engineering and permitting and plenty of $$$.

How 'bout a couple pictures to give us some reference?

 

[TRWham]

The answer to long spans is to reduce them. Turn your thinking sideways and use a beam across the 28' dimension to bisect the 38' into 2 19' spans, or even better trisect it to 3 13' spans. The advantage of 2 beams is the load on each will be reduced and they and your joists will be smaller, therefore easier to handle. The downside is you will have more connections. You will need a beam across the door anyway and you could pretty much clear span the 28' at the door except for whatever shear wall is needed on that end. Use LVLs and joist hanger the ceiling joists to them.

ETA: Are you talking about a door through the block wall into your space, or a door into your space from inside the existing building?

 

[RStewart]

And will your ceiling block a fire sprinkler system? Good luck with your project.

 

[matt_i]

I would not use wood studs trapped against the block wall,, behind drywall. Its a perfect place for termites to enter undetected and start chewing up the framing.

I would use metal studs against the block wall, despite slightly more pain in using them.

As far as your ceiling span I would look into I-joists. For the span they will be the lightest weight. LVLs are heavy and expensive, and very sound structurally, but seem like extra expense. A lumberyard (not a box store) will be able to help size them for the span, or you can research online .pdfs that can set you up with span tables.

 

[TRWham]

To be clear, I am not suggesting LVLs for all ceiling joists. I am saying he should use 2 LVL beams spanning wall to wall to carry perpendicular dimensional lumber joists (probably just 2x8 for a ceiling load). The front and rear walls will carry the other ends of the joists. Also, all walls will need some form of structural sheathing. Drywall on the interior side is not enough.

 

[edl]

Many thanks for the suggestions and good questions

As to the basic layout yes 2 of the walls R block walls of the warehouse and the other 2 walls would be out in 2 open area having said that and recognizing it could be cheaper I'm not interested in having a block walls be the walls of the garage there are too many things that I put on the walls in terms of hanging tools hanging racks and other things then I prefer to have a system to drill into and not be putting haul all throughout the block walls so , all 4 walls would be framed out 2 walls would have block wall on the backside of them and 2 walls would just be out in an open area

I own the warehouse that is less of an issue
what really drives all this for me is what would be cheapest and easiest

I read one of the comments above with a lot of interest which was trapping would against block wall behind drywall and inviting wood destroying organisms there this is Florida and there's certain there are plenty of those the building is treated for termites but I hate to tempt fate

On metal Studs Do they work the same way as wood 2 by fours

With the bottom and top plates still be pressure treated wood

I had always thought the metal studs or hollow so I guess you attach from the other side on an angle into the bottom plate or top plate with a screw

How does the expense of an office style drop ceiling with a square foam compare to joist/drwy wall ceiling

it seems like the threshold question at the moment is to go with wood framing or metal framing so looking forward to hearing the comments on that

As to the garage door human door and window at least at the level of you tube it seems that these are pretty straightforward in that the garage door clearly whatever is supporting it needs to support the weight of the door but there is no real load bearing from the top other than the weight of whatever roofing system is there - Building these within a structure that's with in a warehouse would truly require engineering and permitting? Maybe I'm underestimating what goes into the header King stud and Jack stud to support systems , surely for just a person door and a window there can't be any need to permit but a garage door and all that weight well maybe that's another question I just don't know

Thanks in advance for the continued advice

 

[edl]

OK - i have watched some you tube and get how the studs/plates work in a metal application - it seems to come down to the ceiling

no one seemed to respond to my thought of a suspended joist ceiling - what i mean by this is that in the same way you could suspend a grid of foam tiles, couldn't you support long spans of trusses using threaded rod coming down from the steel beam rafters of the warehouse?

 

[edl]

hoping someone might regain interest in this thread\

from the internet, it seems that metal studs (that seem to be a c channel or u channel type shape and pretty flimsy has their own plates and takes strength from the drywall - it appears to be an easy way to put up indoor partitions - i can't figure out how you would do a garage door with that....it would no way hold up the weight...i haven't seen anything on the internet that addresses this - so go you go back at that point to wood framing for the garage door?

the other open point is a a drop ceiling of some sort whether it be a metal frame perhaps even hanging wood joists - if metal i guess a final choice is foam tile or dry wall - the wall would be drywall on metal studs

hopefully someone can chime in on those two open points

 

[edl]

Hi Guys...have been chipping away at this...mostly cleaning and prepping the floors:

1. do most people put a final finish on the floor after the construction is done?
2. how high can a single wall go up? - so if the ceiling is over 16 feet, do you put some kind of a plate and the start with new studs on top of that? - or do you just connect studs all the way up to the top plate?
3. i am still struggling with the ceiling - this is a structure that is being built inside a warehouse - rather than build a load bearing structure, i was wondering if i can attach the ceiling joists with threaded rod to the steel ibeam joists of the warehouse itself with clamps and threaded rod and have a suspended ceiling (which will be plywood cladded and not sheet rock) - will this work?

thanks

 

[edl]

ETA: Are you talking about a door through the block wall into your space, or a door into your space from inside the existing building?

there would need to be a garage door from the space into the existing warehouse - eventual ingress/egress is the existing warehouse roll up doors