New building ... need security system ... a few caveats

[dogfood]

Hello -

New here, mainly because for the first time in my life, I'm going to have an honest usable garage (finished barn) - complete in just a few weeks. At the moment, I'm several hundred miles away and will be most of the time until me and the wife (and dogs and cat) move permanently to the barn site. The wife insists we have a house bult there first as well. Go figure.

I'm looking at wireless security systems. I'm way back in the woods (without utility poles), so anything hardwired from the road isn't practical. I will have cell service and WiFi, thanks to Elon's satellites. I'll want to add the usual devices - cameras, motion detectors, smoke detectors and such. I would like to stay away from any mandatory monitoring requirement (and associated cost), but would like that ability. There are obviously a lot of options for this. Ring and SimpliSafe seem to be very popular, but there are others.

The system will go in the barn first - and I think that's fairly straightforward. But once the house is built, I'd like to move the base system into the house - but still be able to extend monitoring to the barn. The trick is that the barn and house will be roughly 150 feet apart. I understand this could be problematic.

Anyone have any recent experience with a similar two dwelling set-up? I realize this topic has been covered before, but with the technology changing rapidly, I'd like some input on current system abilities.

Thanks,
dogfood

 

[TheClaw]

Good question. I'm finished a new shop soon and thinking the same.

 

[cgrutt]

I would highly recommend hardwiring devices within barn/home with CAT6 ethernet POE (power over ethernet). When time comes to bring system into home and if you have a clear sight between two buildings you can install an eithernet bridge on both buildings to connect them. Id also recommend running a direct burial cable or fiber though. Much more reliable service. My buddy has a large property with multiple buildings on it and has a mix of direct burial ethernet and wireless bridges and he wants us to scrap all that and run fiber.

 

[inphx]

And self host a copy of blueiris to consolidate monitoring and triggers for ip cameras

 

[jack stand]

I'm not talking about you, but I've see most "city" type folks who are moving to "the country" often carry their city paranoia to the country.
Initially I might start with some simple game cameras and meeting the neighbors leaving your predetermined judgements at the gate. Talk to them about your plans, and don't fill in They're predetermined judgements about you.
The game cameras will inform you about any activities AND they might just think that you may be a hunter.... too! All part of breaking the ice.
Having a neighbor who you let hunt there and ask him to give you a call if he sees something funny will go a long way with them.
I did everything but answer your question. But I think you can learn a lot with a few simple game cameras. As building moves along you'll know if further monitoring is needed.

 

[dogfood]

Thanks for the technical info.

And I agree with Jack regarding neighbors. I'm already good friends with our nearest neighbor - retired state police officer and now part-time county deputy. Yes, he hunts my property. He also bushhogs my trails and he's been sending updates as my barn progresses. An all-around good guy. I'm fortunate. But I'm on 135 acres, he can't be there 24/7 and he can't see my place from his.

Unfortunately where I am, law enforcement is spread thin and drugs are a rising problem. It's not uncommon for addicts to hole-up in places that aren't always occupied. You might be right that just a few game cameras will suffice. I'm just trying to get ahead of the game.

 

[jack stand]

A local ally puts you miles ahead.
A couple of posts and a cable across the way in locked or just latched will show you something.
We know that locks are for honest people and as your vulnerability increases with valuable materials laying around a little gate will indicate your presence and involvement with the property.
I went through similar living 600 miles away from my 700+ wooded acres. As my build progressed with materials and ladders scaffolding etc. being left for longer times I started locking the wire gate. During my time there I met neighbors who walked their dogs there daily. I told them to help themselves and keep an eye on things.
All of my concerns were for nothing.

 

[nadogail]

IMHO, your best protection will be a neighbor who knows what should be going on and will call when they see or hear something that is out of the ordinary.

 

[nadogail]

IMHO, your best protection will be a neighbor who knows what should be going on and will call when they see or hear something that is out of the ordinary.

Game Cameras won’t keep anyone out but will help identify those who trigger them.

 

[dcg9381]

The system will go in the barn first - and I think that's fairly straightforward. But once the house is built, I'd like to move the base system into the house - but still be able to extend monitoring to the barn. The trick is that the barn and house will be roughly 150 feet apart. I understand this could be problematic.

Anyone have any recent experience with a similar two dwelling set-up? I realize this topic has been covered before, but with the technology changing rapidly, I'd like some input on current system abilities.

I use Unifi. It's like the "apple" of the cam/security world. It's slick, easy to setup and just works. It's not so much that I want a monitored security system, but I want to be alerted if a camera detects something that shouldn't be there during a certain time period. They have high end commercial stuff, but my cams and most network devices are in the $75-$200 range. It'll also be doing your wifi / internet.

Down side is that storage is local, if that's a problem for you.

My shop is 200 feet from the house. That's cat5-6 range, fiber would be better just so you don't get lightening induction.

The control UI is great - PC or phone app. Plug a device in and it just works.

All my devices are POE, so I just put the switch on a UPS and you have powered security even if the grid power is down.

 

[72Anthony]

I second the recommendation of security cameras installed on the building using POE and having a battery backup for your video recorder and internet connection. I'd also recommend having a camera or two indoors, so if you called 911 you could tell them intruder(s) are inside.

I'd recommend some type of driveway gate to keep cars from driving onto your property and some type of driveway/vehicle alarm as well.

I'm not up to speed on alarm systems

 

[Codyboy]

Neighbors are good to have but they're not always going to be there.
I have only one and no way they could see anything going on where the shop is. Possibly could see someone entering the property from the gravel dead end road but like I said they are not always home.
I placed three cellular game cams with one at the gate, midway and one on the build itself.
All three can capture a license plate .
Unlimited pics and immediate (within a minute depending on cell network) notification to my phone. Less than $120 per camera for a year.
It's good to have.
Eta
Grammar
Eta2
The cameras are also good to deter poaching. Caught two , 2 years ago that had entered from an adjacent property.
The sheriff and game warden both responded and ran them off. Quick response too for the middle of BFE. I think they get off on stuff like that. Lol

 

[75gmck25]

Make sure you have buried conduit between the barn and house for both commercial power and communications cable (ethernet, coax, fiber, etc.). This will allow you to cover the 150 foot spacing of structures without any issues. There are wifi solutions that can be configure to work with that distance, but why not have a new build configured for something easier.

In my experience, many current home-owner grade security solutions are not very failure-resistant. For example, they don't have two-way confirmation of many events and signals, so they blindly "alert" you and have no idea if you actually got the alert. I also find that since they rely on internet connectivity, a power failure long enough to take out all your comm gear (UPS runs out of power, etc.) might mean you need someone to come on site and power it all back on in the correct order. Having everything come back on with autologon and reconnection after a power failure is convenient, but it also has its own security risks.

I have relatives with ranch land that is about 50 miles from their actual farm, and they have security cameras, but those who want to break in know how to work around them. They park off site a good distance and walk in so that you won't capture a license plate. Then they just jump the gates and start browsing around to see what they can take. By the time you report it and ask the sheriff to come out, the strangers are long gone. Night vision capability of the cameras works, but the view from a distance makes it nearly impossible to get good images of a person's face at night. And they can always wear masks.

 

[dcg9381]

In my experience, many current home-owner grade security solutions are not very failure-resistant. For example, they don't have two-way confirmation of many events and signals, so they blindly "alert" you and have no idea if you actually got the alert. I also find that since they rely on internet connectivity, a power failure long enough to take out all your comm gear (UPS runs out of power, etc.) might mean you need someone to come on site and power it all back on in the correct order. Having everything come back on with autologon and reconnection after a power failure is convenient, but it also has its own security risks.

I haven't had any issues with IP cams that have an order-of-boot problem. Might be because I use POE and the power comes from the network gear. But pretty much all of it that talks to the "internet" is going to be designed for the internet to be somewhat unstable.. Sorta the nature of the internet, even if you can't see the routes/paths. Most of the "generic" IP cams have a card to "buffer" video.. Not sure about the name-brand stuff. Even when the local network (or wifi fails) things just work when it comes back up.

Here if you lose power the internet usually doesn't fail... Usually. If it does fail, likely a big cut somewhere or pole down.

Autologin? Everything should auto-authenticate on boot if it's shipping data to the cloud. Otherwise it's a darn poorly designed cam/security system. Access to those images (via another device) should require authentication - but that's usually to "look" and not to post videos/images.

Agree most of the "local crime" images I see, people are in hoodies / hat and are looking down-ish. Having cameras being clearly seen is a good deterrent (like owning a dog)... But twice I had hidden cameras that actually solves some crimes because they were pointed at the street and no one expected them to be there. Like the time when the gate service people came back and stole my neighbors gate controller after hours... In the company van..