New Concrete Pour Issues

[jserr68594]

Last November I had concrete poured in my 60 by 40 pole building. I have some concerns I would like to get others opinions on.

The overall finish has a crazing appearance. Also, as shown in the pictures, there is an area of concrete that dried lighter in color by the overhead door and you can tell it was finished by hand and not by power as the rest of the floor was.

I am also seeing water run in under the overhead doors. It appears as if the slope to floor drains starts at the overheads causing the water that lands at the exterior floor edges to run in.

This is my first time ever having concrete poured and I do not know what is considered normal for sure. I want to make sure that I am not being too picky. What do you guys think?

 

[Flail]

I hate when water runs in instead of out. I’m dealing with now with a new rental I just bought. Who laid out the slope for the floors? Did you specify a slope towards the door in your contract?

 

[jserr68594]

I hate when water runs in instead of out. I’m dealing with now with a new rental I just bought. Who laid out the slope for the floors? Did you specify a slope towards the door in your contract?

I did not specify that I wanted the slope ran out, but it was never asked of me either. I just assumed that water would not be directed to run towards the inside. It seems like common sense to me.

 

[ducatithunder]

interesting ... your threshold doesnt appear to have a weather lip. That would keep the water from entering the garage even if slopped improperly. Usually its a 3/4 inch threshold and the door seals to the lower side. At this point depending on what the apron looks like a drain outside the door may be your solution.

 

[ducatithunder]

I did not specify that I wanted the slope ran out, but it was never asked of me either. I just assumed that water would not be directed to run towards the inside. It seems like common sense to me.

If it wasn't on a drawing of spec'd out in a quote then your SOL. Alot of people want garage/shop pours that are flat for lifts and work. Not your typical house garage that carries a pitch to allow water to drain to the door after a car comes in from the rain or snow. What does the apron and driveway approach to the garage look like. Judging from your pics i would imagine there is a gentle slop towards the garage. Aprons and driveways are usually designed to pitch away. My entire drive was slightly pitched away from my garage to keep any water coming down it to pitch away from the door and weather lip. Most of the water coming down the drive is diverted before it even gets to the 24x24 apron. I specifically asked for this based on the location of the garage and the upper road getting heavy rains.

 

[jserr68594]

interesting ... your threshold doesnt appear to have a weather lip. That would keep the water from entering the garage even if slopped improperly. Usually its a 3/4 inch threshold and the door seals to the lower side. At this point depending on what the apron looks like a drain outside the door may be your solution.

Here is what it looks like outside the doors.

 

[ConCretin]

The drainage issue is unacceptable regardless of what you did or did not specify. At the very least the slab should pitch away from the door to the outside. Check the slab with a level to see where the water is coming from. .

The crazing looks to be a bit excessive but isn't necessarily cause for concern by itself. Crazing is simply shrinkage cracks in the cement paste on the surface of the slab. It's primarily an aesthetic issue that won't necessarily affect it's serviceability. It can however be an indicator of excessive mix water, which can cause other problems. Impossible to say from here.

The variations in color probably isn't a concern other than appearance. Concrete color varies quite a bit depening on finishing method, curing, moisture level, etc. It's too bad the crew didn't have the patience to wait for all the concrete to set enough to machine finish but it must have been happy hour somewhere.

Not sure what recourse you have at this point. Hopefully the problems don't go any deeper than what you can see so far.

 

[jserr68594]

If it wasn't on a drawing of spec'd out in a quote then your SOL. Alot of people want garage/shop pours that are flat for lifts and work. Not your typical house garage that carries a pitch to allow water to drain to the door after a car comes in from the rain or snow. What does the apron and driveway approach to the garage look like. Judging from your pics i would imagine there is a gentle slop towards the garage. Aprons and driveways are usually designed to pitch away. My entire drive was slightly pitched away from my garage to keep any water coming down it to pitch away from the door and weather lip. Most of the water coming down the drive is diverted before it even gets to the 24x24 apron. I specifically asked for this based on the location of the garage and the upper road getting heavy rains.

There is no apron out in front of the doors currently. The concrete drops off about 2in down to gravel.

 

[jserr68594]

The drainage issue is unacceptable regardless of what you did or did not specify. At the very least the slab should pitch away from the door to the outside. Check the slab with a level to see where the water is coming from. .

The crazing looks to be a bit excessive but isn't necessarily cause for concern by itself. Crazing is simply shrinkage cracks in the cement paste on the surface of the slab. It's primarily an aesthetic issue that won't necessarily affect it's serviceability. It can however be an indicator of excessive mix water, which can cause other problems. Impossible to say from here.

The variations in color probably isn't a concern other than appearance. Concrete color varies quite a bit depening on finishing method, curing, moisture level, etc. It's too bad the crew didn't have the patience to wait for all the concrete to set enough to machine finish but it must have been happy hour somewhere.

Not sure what recourse you have at this point. Hopefully the problems don't go any deeper than what you can see so far.

Thank you for your thoughts. I'm not exactly sure how I am going to approach the contractor moving forward, but it seems to me that you would be right that water should not be running in the building.

 

[ducatithunder]

Well you have that going for you. Atleast you can pitch the apron away. How thick is the concrete slab? Is there enough meat to grind in a weather lip? That would keep the water from coming in and any water hitting the door a place to drain to. I guess my other question is does the seal on the door completely compress to a good seal? In one of the pics you posted it looks as if water is running down the door and could be pooling at the bottom or the side seal isnt sealing well enough.

 

[joes169]

I'm with LLWillysfan on his thoughts.

We ALWAYS slope at least 16" out aggressively at the OH doors to keep even wind-driven rain out. IMO, there's no need for a dropped "dust lip", and I personally think they're dangerous and annoying in a working garage.

I remember seeing this floor this Fall and scratching my head at the color differences. The fact that the majority was power troweled and the last little bit by the OH door was wiped out by hand makes sense now. Either the last load had less calcium chloride, thus it didn't set as well, or they burnished the floor with the power trowel.

The crazing isn't a huge concern, just an aesthetic one, as LLW noted. It's obviously amplified by the darkness caused by the calcium chloride.

I'd definitely try to talk with the contractor about the water issue, and I'd probably let the other one's slide.

 

[jserr68594]

Well you have that going for you. Atleast you can pitch the apron away. How thick is the concrete slab? Is there enough meat to grind in a weather lip? That would keep the water from coming in and any water hitting the door a place to drain to. I guess my other question is does the seal on the door completely compress to a good seal? In one of the pics you posted it looks as if water is running down the door and could be pooling at the bottom or the side seal isnt sealing well enough.

The slab is 6" thick, so what you are proposing could probably be done. I believe the seal in making good contact, but I will confirm, thanks.

 

[jserr68594]

I'm with LLWillysfan on his thoughts.

We ALWAYS slope at least 16" out aggressively at the OH doors to keep even wind-driven rain out. IMO, there's no need for a dropped "dust lip", and I personally think they're dangerous and annoying in a working garage.

I remember seeing this floor this Fall and scratching my head at the color differences. The fact that the majority was power troweled and the last little bit by the OH door was wiped out by hand makes sense now. Either the last load had less calcium chloride, thus it didn't set as well, or they burnished the floor with the power trowel.

The crazing isn't a huge concern, just an aesthetic one, as LLW noted. It's obviously amplified by the darkness caused by the calcium chloride.

I'd definitely try to talk with the contractor about the water issue, and I'd probably let the other one's slide.

I appreciate your advice. The crazing doesn't overly bother me (The area with the different color near the door does though). I am hoping for a good resolution for the water problem as I do not want my shop wet all of the time. It is frustrating to spend close to $20K and have to deal with these issues!

 

[mcbane]

With no slab outside your door yet, you are in luck. Close the door and mark where it touches down on the concrete. Then grind a 1/4" per foot slope from that line toward the outside. From your photo looks like the grind would only be maybe 1/4" deep at the edge of concrete. A big job for a small angle grinder but perhaps you can find a grinding contractor who can do that more efficiently.

 

[yelchevelle]

I wholeheartedly agree with llwillysfan. Pretty much exactly what I was thinking

 

[mitusa]

I agree with McBane.....

With no slab outside your door yet, you are in luck. Close the door and mark where it touches down on the concrete. Then grind a 1/4" per foot slope from that line toward the outside. From your photo looks like the grind would only be maybe 1/4" deep at the edge of concrete. A big job for a small angle grinder but perhaps you can find a grinding contractor who can do that more efficiently.

....either find a cup grinder and make a threshhold or contract someone to lower the concrete directly outside your door. Rain is running down the door and running under your seal.

 

[joes169]

You can certainly grind the exterior portion, but doing it right can prove to be an arduous task. I would grind at least to the inside of the door, and probably even a few inches farther in to be sure. I'd also blend the sides in a few inches on each side. Obviously, grinding concrete is slow and messy.

And, the OP is obviously picky enough (certainly not a bad thing) that they're not going to want to look at exposed aggregate for the rest of time.

I finally addressed the problem at my attached garage 1.5 years ago when I replaced the driveway. A couple pictures:

 

[joes169]

You can certainly grind the exterior portion, but doing it right can prove to be an arduous task. I would grind at least to the inside of the door, and probably even a few inches farther in to be sure. I'd also blend the sides in a few inches on each side. Obviously, grinding concrete is slow and messy.

And, the OP is obviously picky enough (certainly not a bad thing) that they're not going to want to look at exposed aggregate for the rest of time.

I finally addressed the problem at my attached garage 1.5 years ago when I replaced the driveway. A couple pictures:

No idea how the pictures got mixed up, but:

1st picture is after grinding, applying of T-1000 primer.

2nd picture is application of "Butterfield T-1000 thin overlay".

3rd picture is today, color came from acid stain and "Perma-Tique" retro release/stain.

4th picture is texture stamping of overlay with liquid release.

The biggest issue is that this material is extremely difficult to work with, it's crazy sticky and sets off very fast. I've only brushed it once, with average results. Finish toweling it would require some kind of film sprayed over it to get a decent finish.

 

[berub9a2]

I know this doesn’t help but this is what the concrete contractor did for my barn. No water from the outside comes in because of the little pocket.

 

[ducatithunder]

^That would be what's called a weather lip.

 

[kelpaso1]

Yet another concrete floor FAIL we see weekly here. Cant believe the number of fails I read here from incompetent concrete installers weekly. Why is concrete to hard to install with supposed concrete guys. Do you even have to go to any kind of school to be a "concrete" guy or is that optional.

 

[mitusa]

I know this doesn’t help but this is what the concrete contractor did for my barn. No water from the outside comes in because of the little pocket.

This is what I was trying to explain.....I call it a threshold. This is how my garage doors are finished. I did have to buy a concrete blade for my circular saw to even up some of the finish lines but everything worked out fine.

 

[BombShelter]

It sounds like you got a great price, it would be double that up here. I'm not a concrete expert but anytime you have a sloping driveway next to a garage door I'd recommend looking into a trench drain along the driveway/floor slab junction. It might not be too late to have the contractor cut one in, I think they're easier to install when your pouring but they might make drop in units as well. If you get freezing rain, like we do, I'd also put in some heat tape so it flows this time of year.

I used to see the crazing alot with concrete that had fiberglass filiments in it for reinforcement. You may be fine because it's inside but over time I've seen the filiments wick up moisture making the surface crack more than usual. Personally I'm a rebar guy, I just had some concrete quoted yesterday an it all has rebar.