new connections to long-gone spa

[wesalexleft]

I had a 240V spa hardwired into a 240V GFCI outlet box on my patio. If it helps, it was a Calspa 8 person-circa 2005. The spa has been removed, and the box is sitting there unused. I'd like to put a box like the one below in place of the existing box so that I can have a 240V or 110V option on the patio to use things such as a small MIG welder, 240v or 110v compressor, and patio entertainment such as a blender, hot plate, blower, etc.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-70-Am...it-Protected-Receptacles-GE1LU502SS/203393687

I need to look at the service in the house, so I can't tell you about that yet, but I suspect its a 4 wire of #6 gauge. I believe the spa required a dedicated ground. Any reason this can't be done? I believe the link is for a pre-wired box, so I would like to DIY.

Thanks!

 

[kd3pc]

looks pretty straight forward to me...

be sure to check the service panel for proper wiring and size.

bests

 

[scooby074]

Is there an existing neutral?

 

[wesalexleft]

There is a neutral existing in the spa breaker box. I just checked at lunch, and the box is supplied with power from the service panel by two 60A breakers. I will need to pull the service panel cover to confirm the wire size/type, but I'm assuming if it could handle a 240V spa with heat, it should be able to handle a 50A 240 outlet for a welder/compressor. Fingers crossed. Image of the inside of the spa breaker box attached...breakers have been removed.

 

[tyme2par4]

I had a very similar situation in my house. The old spa leaked, so I tore it out. If you have a 60A breaker currently, you should be able to swap it to a 50A, and then just attach the new box.

 

[wesalexleft]

If the new box comes with a 50A breaker, do I need to update the service panel to 50A also, or can the 60 remain? I would think that as long as the new box is lower, it would be okay. I am NOT an electrician however.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I had a 240V spa hardwired into a 240V GFCI outlet box on my patio. If it helps, it was a Calspa 8 person-circa 2005. The spa has been removed, and the box is sitting there unused. I'd like to put a box like the one below in place of the existing box so that I can have a 240V or 110V option on the patio to use things such as a small MIG welder, 240v or 110v compressor, and patio entertainment such as a blender, hot plate, blower, etc.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-70-Am...it-Protected-Receptacles-GE1LU502SS/203393687

If you go with that box, you will need an adapter for the 50a outlet. This is because it has a NEMA 14-50 125/250v receptacle and most welders need a 6-50 250v outlet.

I need to look at the service in the house, so I can't tell you about that yet, but I suspect its a 4 wire of #6 gauge. I believe the spa required a dedicated ground. Any reason this can't be done? I believe the link is for a pre-wired box, so I would like to DIY.

Thanks!

The ground would be a reduced size. Most likely #10.

Yes a 120v/240v spa needs a 4-wire feed.

If the new box comes with a 50A breaker, do I need to update the service panel to 50A also, or can the 60 remain? I would think that as long as the new box is lower, it would be okay. I am NOT an electrician however.

No but it depends on the wire gauge and type. Can you report back with the gauge and type of wire you have?

If #6/3 NM-b and you will have a load higher than 55a, then you need to change the breaker since NM-b is limited to 55a. 55a is not a standard breaker size, so you can go to next standard size (60a) as long as the load is 55a or less. Since that box has a 50a outlet and a 20a outlet, you could overload the wire.

so the devil is in the details.

 

[wesalexleft]

Checked this evening. It's Romex Simpull 6 gauge with a 10 gauge bare ground NM-B rated at 600 volts. I see your point that the combined maximums could overload the run, if the cable is rated to 55 amps. Thanks for the help and I'll look to replace the breakers.

 

[ard]

There is a neutral existing in the spa breaker box. I just checked at lunch, and the box is supplied with power from the service panel by two 60A breakers. I will need to pull the service panel cover to confirm the wire size/type, but I'm assuming if it could handle a 240V spa with heat, it should be able to handle a 50A 240 outlet for a welder/compressor. Fingers crossed. Image of the inside of the spa breaker box attached...breakers have been removed.

So the picture here is a breaker box out where the spa was?

Could you not just add an outlet for the welder, and an outlet for whatever else you need?? What that integrated box you posted, you are stuck w 50A

I know you don't have a welder yet, but you migth not need 50. Maybe you need 40A 240V for the welder and 20A240 for a compressor.

Yeah, I like that one-stop-shop and clean install- and if it was a RV parked there, it'd be a no-brainer.

My 2 cents

 

[wesalexleft]

I could go that route, but the box is 78.00 assembled with outlets and it's prewired. By the time I buy the outdoor boxes, conduit, outlets, and do the work, I think it will cost the same and maybe more, and still not be so clean looking on the patio.

 

[wesalexleft]

I installed the RV/service box, with the 240/110 power. I now have a question for the electricians of the group. I understand I did NOT want to bond the ground in the attached diagram, because it would provide an electrical path back to the breaker panel in the house. I have it wired as in the diagram without the bonding wire. I had 4-wire coming into the box with red/black/white and ground. The bare copper ground goes to the panel equipment ground only. The receptacle is a 14-50, with the ground not being connected. If I want to put a 14-50 plug on a welder with a 6-50, plug, do I just treat the ground lug as neutral? Hope this makes sense. I have the box wired exactly as the attached diagram, but all welding talk I see says to tread the 6-50 three-wire with red/black/ground. My ground is not used, so does neutral become ground?

Thanks,

 

[ard]

You ground the box, and the grounds on the two receptacles together, back to the main panel.

Not sure what YOU mean by "I understand I did NOT want to bond the ground in the attached diagram, because it would provide an electrical path back to the breaker panel in the house."

You dont bond the neutral bar to box. But you need a ground. You WANT a ground path to the service.

 

[wesalexleft]

Thanks-I'm clear now. My mind's had eye overlooked the ground from the box to the ground lug on the 240 receptacle which connected everything.