New construction toilet install

[Codyboy]

I'll be installing a new toilet in the shop.
I have a 4" pipe that I'll need to cut down as its about a foot tall right now sticking out of the concrete. The tile floor is already set up to the pipe.
I have an inside cutter I'll be using.
Wondering how far down it needs to be cut to accept the flange.
Also what flange do I need? Last time I was in that aisle there were so many different types of flanges.
Ive replaced toilets before but never had to do one from scratch.

 

[flat350]

Depends on the closet collar, some have a little bevel under the flange that requires the pipe to be cut back a little below the floor. A std. 4" x 3" female closet collar should fit perfect inside 4" pipe if it's plastic. Don't rely on the piping to hold the collar down, anchor it to the floor with some type of mechanical fastener.

 

[larry4406]

I'll be installing a new toilet in the shop.
I have a 4" pipe that I'll need to cut down as its about a foot tall right now sticking out of the concrete. The tile floor is already set up to the pipe.
I have an inside cutter I'll be using.
Wondering how far down it needs to be cut to accept the flange.
Also what flange do I need? Last time I was in that aisle there were so many different types of flanges.
Ive replaced toilets before but never had to do one from scratch.

Ideal setup!

Use a multi-tool (oscillation tool) and cut the pipe flush with the top of the tile.

Standard flange and drill for screws into concrete. The toilet flanges will fit a 3" pipe on the inside or slip into a 4" pipe.

Might need to radius the inside edge of the cut 4" pipe.

 

[Codyboy]

Ideal setup!

Use a multi-tool (oscillation tool) and cut the pipe flush with the top of the tile.

Standard flange and drill for screws into concrete. The toilet flanges will fit a 3" pipe on the inside or slip into a 4" pipe.

Might need to radius the inside edge of the cut 4" pipe.

The porcelain tile goes right up to the pipe.
I'd have to drill through that to get to the concrete.
What screws to hold the flange to the concrete?
And does the flange get pvc cement to the pipe or is it a slip fit?

 

[nadogail]

my personal preference would be the flange sold by Fludmaster. There are other good ones, i just happen to prefer Fluidmaster.

 

[logical]

You want the top of the flange 1/8 to 1/4 inch above the finished floor. Cut the pipe at the depth that just allows the flange to get to that level

 

[LOW1]

I like the “slip fit inside the pipe and drop in“ flanges and stainless steel screws. Make sure the screw heads are big enough or else also get stainless steel washers that are the right size.

And I get the thicker brass bolts with two extra brass nuts that hold down the toilet. After inserting the toilet bolts I secure them in place with one of the nuts and then put the second one on after the toilet has been set.

 

[DAustin]

Whatever you do, don't ask NASA for advice.

 

[BurtEggley]

depends on the height of the finished floor.

 

[rlitman]

my personal preference would be the flange sold by Fludmaster. There are other good ones, i just happen to prefer Fluidmaster.

Fluidmaster makes flanges? I really do like their flange seal better than anything else, but are you sure you're not thinking of Oatey? Oatey makes nice flanges with a stainless rings. Is the pipe ABS or PVC? We need to know that to make a specific recommendation.

 

[Codyboy]

You want the top of the flange 1/8 to 1/4 inch above the finished floor. Cut the pipe at the depth that just allows the flange to get to that level

Doesn't the bottom of the flange need to contact the floor?

 

[Codyboy]

Fluidmaster makes flanges? I really do like their flange seal better than anything else, but are you sure you're not thinking of Oatey? Oatey makes nice flanges with a stainless rings. Is the pipe ABS or PVC? We need to know that to make a specific recommendation.

Sch 40 pvc 4 inch

 

[BurtEggley]

the metal rings still go bad with moisture. Ask me how I know. This is the 2nd time both metal ones leaked. I had the plumber put this in, he won't use the metal ones, even stainless, because he gets call backs with them. Instead he used high quality plastic ones. Here you can see the damage the moisture from the one with a metal ring caused. Here is the repaired flange.



And repaired floor

 

[Jeepster04]

You want the top of the flange 1/8 to 1/4 inch above the finished floor. Cut the pipe at the depth that just allows the flange to get to that level

This... Ive always read that the flange should be on top of the finished floor, so I tried it last time I needed to replace a flange. The toilet sat up off the floor exactly the thickness of the flange. Completely squeezed out the wax ring.

Had to take it all back up, cut the pipe, and redo the floor. I ended up just making it flush with the finished floor.

the metal rings still go bad with moisture. Ask me how I know. This is the 2nd time both metal ones leaked. I had the plumber put this in, he won't use the metal ones, even stainless, because he gets call backs with them. Instead he used high quality plastic ones. Here you can see the damage the moisture from the one with a metal ring caused. Here is the repaired flange.



And repaired floor

Interesting way to clock the flange...

 

[The Cobbler]

do you have room on the outside of the pipe that allows the flange to slip over the OD of the pipe? if not you'll need an internal slip flange or spigot end flange , but here they are technically not allowed by code

 

[larry4406]

The porcelain tile goes right up to the pipe.
I'd have to drill through that to get to the concrete.
What screws to hold the flange to the concrete?
And does the flange get pvc cement to the pipe or is it a slip fit?

You want the top of the flange 1/8 to 1/4 inch above the finished floor. Cut the pipe at the depth that just allows the flange to get to that level

No. The bottom of the toilet flange is flush to the finished floor surface.

Cut the pipe off flush with the top of the tile.

The toilet flange gets PVC glued to the inside of the 4" pipe. Buy the style that slips in. Clock the flange properly.

Use a ceramic/concrete drill to drill the holes. TapCons work.

Here is my basement bath with a 4" pipe stub. I do not have pictures with the TapCons installed.

 

[rlitman]

No. The bottom of the toilet flange is flush to the finished floor surface.

Cut the pipe off flush with the top of the tile.

The toilet flange gets PVC glued to the inside of the 4" pipe. Buy the style that slips in. Clock the flange properly.

Use a ceramic/concrete drill to drill the holes. TapCons work.

Exactly. And good show on the clocking.

There's nothing wrong about the blue tapcons. They're quite corrosion resistant and totally appropriate. However, if you're as crazy as me, I'll point out that stainless tapcons also exist, and they're probably a better choice if your flange has a stainless ring (which I would always get).

As to the plumber who has stainless flange rings corroding... That's not a metal flange failure. That's a wax seal failure. Wax cannot tolerate hot water dumped down the drain, or ANY toilet (or floor) movement. Anyway, if you get an Oatey flange with a stainless ring, replacement stainless is cheap and easy. And if you use a Fluidmaster Better Than Wax seal, you won't have corroding stainless.

 

[Codyboy]

do you have room on the outside of the pipe that allows the flange to slip over the OD of the pipe? if not you'll need an internal slip flange or spigot end flange , but here they are technically not allowed by code

No the concrete is poured around the pipe and the tile has maybe a 0 to 1/4" around the pipe.
The flange will have to go inside the 4" pipe.

No. The bottom of the toilet flange is flush to the finished floor surface.

Cut the pipe off flush with the top of the tile.

The toilet flange gets PVC glued to the inside of the 4" pipe. Buy the style that slips in. Clock the flange properly.

Use a ceramic/concrete drill to drill the holes. TapCons work.

Here is my basement bath with a 4" pipe stub. I do not have pictures with the TapCons installed.

I have a concrete bit and some tapcons. Wasn't sure if that bit would drill through the porcelain tile.
As far as cutting the pipe I wasn't sure if it should be below the finished floor or even with it. Sounds like even/flush is what im looking for. But I'll verify with how the flange fits in it.
I'll be using a pvc flange, not metal or metal clad etc. Plain ol pvc.

 

[rlitman]

...I have a concrete bit and some tapcons. Wasn't sure if that bit would drill through the porcelain tile...

Porcelain can be difficult to drill, and I wouldn't have the tapcon anchoring in it, so you'll need to at least use two sized drill bits, to clearance hole the tile.

In my last bath renovation, the porcelain tile ended up blocking the screws for some of my decora plates, so I bought a cheap pack of 1/4" diamond core bits and removed plugs of porcelain by using them through a taped down block of wood with a 1/4" hole. It worked well enough, but wasn't easy going.

 

[larry4406]

Porcelain can be difficult to drill, and I wouldn't have the tapcon anchoring in it, so you'll need to at least use two sized drill bits, to clearance hole the tile.

In my last bath renovation, the porcelain tile ended up blocking the screws for some of my decora plates, so I bought a cheap pack of 1/4" diamond core bits and removed plugs of porcelain by using them through a taped down block of wood with a 1/4" hole. It worked well enough, but wasn't easy going.

Lowe’s sells some Bosch brand bits that work well for ceramic and porcelain.

Agree with thru drilling the porcelain first then changing to the bit for the TapCon in the concrete.

Never knew there were stainless TapCons.

 

[The Cobbler]

the porcelain tile ended up blocking the screws for some of my decora plates,

I've just cut the screws even shorter than they are .

 

[BurtEggley]

This... Ive always read that the flange should be on top of the finished floor, so I tried it last time I needed to replace a flange. The toilet sat up off the floor exactly the thickness of the flange. Completely squeezed out the wax ring.

Had to take it all back up, cut the pipe, and redo the floor. I ended up just making it flush with the finished floor.



Interesting way to clock the flange...

Our licensed plumber prefers using the U slots in the flange rather than the one that allows sliding. He was careful to mark the floor exactly the same distance from the wall, then align the U slots with those marks. If one studies the flange, the U slots are stronger than the sliding slots.

 

[Superbowl]

Our licensed plumber prefers using the U slots in the flange rather than the one that allows sliding. He was careful to mark the floor exactly the same distance from the wall, then align the U slots with those marks. If one studies the flange, the U slots are stronger than the sliding slots.

My plumber also only uses the U slots because they are stronger

 

[Superbowl]

internal slip flange or spigot end flange , but here they are technically not allowed by code

Are you sure that is the case for a 4" pipe like the OP has? Seems silly as toilets often are connected to 3" pipes so a 4" with a inside flange is plenty big and the trap way inside a toilet is only 2".

 

[The Cobbler]

I didn't read the 4" . oops.. and I meant to say " here they are note compliant"

 

[tarbellb]

Do you not have access to the toilet? Verify the outer rim that will sit on the floor vs flange that meets the floor flange.

Leave enough gap between the porcelain flange and the floor flange for wax, not much needs to be known.

 

[Codyboy]

Do you not have access to the toilet? Verify the outer rim that will sit on the floor vs flange that meets the floor flange.

Leave enough gap between the porcelain flange and the floor flange for wax, not much needs to be known.

I don't have the toilet yet. But wouldn't they all be standard in flange/horn aspect?
I mean if I decided to replace it with another brand next year I shouldn't have to rip out a good flange?

 

[Codyboy]

lol wrong sub man? this is jeep stuff not house construction. unless youre trying to mount a porta potty to your rig for trail runs which honestly kinda respect the grind but also no

Ok sorry Ralph. Didn't mean to upset you with your whole total of 5 posts and a 5 day old account.
I wasn't aware that Garage Journal was a jeep forum.
Maybe, just maybe you're the one who clicked on the wrong forum.
Have a nice day.

 

[larry4406]

You can always be a hack and set the flange low then use multiple wax rings to correct the sin.




No - don't do this. I have seen this too many times and the damage it causes.

 

[Fav Onefour]

I used to drive myself crazy worrying about setting toilets.
It seemed like an ongoing problem with every new place and leaking toilets.

Over time, I realized most of my past problems were improperly set flanges. Wrong height and crooked were the most common flaws. Previous owners usually tried all kinds of hack fixes and the flanges usually got destroyed over time. Think of your toilet install as a gravity system. It will work properly without clamping the begeezus out of the flange bolts. The "seal" is there for blocking gases. A properly installed standard toilet should flush fine without the seal and not leak.

@Codyboy , You are lucky. You're able to start fresh with a good 4" PVC pipe. In that scenario I like to use a solvent welded 3" inside fit with a slight topside taper for wax seals with plastic liner rings. Your flange height will be great right on top of the tile. Clock the flange whichever way you prefer. Do a dry fit and set the toilet bowl without a seal. I like to use painter tape and mark the exact bowl placement It makes setting the toilet easier without twisting or moving as you compress the seal. Do this before you glue and screw the flange permanent. Some toilets are deformed. It's a crappy deal, but it's reality.
Anyhow, if the toilet sits flat, you've overcome the biggest obstacle. Slight shimming is ok too, if it's not rocking on the flange.

Use a good bit on your hammer drill when you go through the tile. I like to use a shop vac while doing that part. The bit produces less heat if the debris is removed while drilling.

Let the PVC cement set fully before you do the final install. Set the toilet on your seal and squish it down using weight. Don't clamp with the flange bolts. I sit right on the bowl and rock a bit while squishing the seal. I finger tighten the flange bolts as the toilet settles down. At the very end of squishing, you may still have a slight wobble. I use thin shims to eliminate all wobble. (No wax seal in the world will hold up to a wobbly toilet over time.) After you have the toilet flat and steady, apply a thin bead of sealant around the toilet base. The sealant is there to keep the toilet from sliding around and make cleaning easier. Let that sealant cure before using the toilet.

After all that is done, put the plunger in a locked cabinet or throw it away. Plungers and wax seals are a bad combination. If someone is trying to push a plug past your toilet flange, the seal won't win. Again, it's a gravity system. Those seals are meant to stop gases. Applying pressure with a plunger isn't a good combination. If you don't blow out the wax seal, that toilet will be leak free for years and years. The internal valves and gaskets will go before the wax seal fails.

BTW, if anyone has a toilet that is moving or sliding. The seal is probably leaking already. Pull the toilet and set it properly. It will save you floor replacement if you catch it in time.