New disconnects for shop & House???

[Toomanytools?]

So I built a new shop and I'm in the process of getting 200amps to it. My local Electric company has their transformer box about 70' from shop 10' from that is my meter ( it is like a mobile home meter base) sits in the ground. The house has 400amps to it at first we thought it was 200 so it was going to be easy to pull the other 200 to shop.

So REA requires upgrade to 600a from transformer to meter base, but we need to change meter add a 3' x 3' CT box and add two disconnects for house 400amp, and shop 200 amp.
The question is what to buy I have found "General Electric 200amp 240v fusible, NR3" for $300. The 400amp is anywhere from $900 to $1500.
Just wondering if anyone has gone through this and have any suggestions.
Thanks Jeff

 

[Radix2]

Nobody needs 600A service to their property - is this a commercial operation ?

The typical next step from a 200A service is a 400A service which is also known as 320A service using two 200A main breakers.

If you have 400A service, there is no problem having a 200A sub panel.

Is there something special about your situation/loads ?

If not, you are considering spending a lot of unnecessary funds.

 

[AntonLargiader]

You can get Square D 200A disconnects for around $150 each.

Can you tell us more about the REA (who are they) requirement, and what the house and shop loads are?

 

[ard]

As above, why would you not simply feed the 200A shop off the 400A 'home' panel?

Perhaps you are stipulating certain things about this project that are causing them to respond with a pretty odd-sounding solution... Who could possibly need 600A?? Unless you are insisting "I want a totally separate 200A service to the shop, I don't want it fed from the house"..and they are saying "OK, this guy is nuts- let's give him what he wants"

Dunno, but something is off here it seems....

 

[sberry]

A disconnect is 150 or 200 and for 200 can get 8 spaces with 200 feed thru lugs. Some of these setups make running aux power a bit of a problem but some spaces outdoor can be handy for well and out buildings.
If I could get it all thru 200A service I would.

 

[AffableCurmudgeon]

400 AMP for a house???
A little hydroponic gardening in the basement with lots of lamps?

 

[Falcon67]

You can get Square D 200A disconnects for around $150 each.

Can you tell us more about the REA (who are they) requirement, and what the house and shop loads are?

Looks like Rural Electric Association - so yea, they would get to dictate the terms of any feed. Like our local co-op.

http://www.wreca.coop/

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Unless your house is extremly large with all electric loads(water heater, dryer, double ovens, range, large ACs and heat pumps, pool heater, etc) 400a is way overkill and 600a would be a huge waste of money....

Most PoCos charge quite a bit to setup CT metered services. And then theres the cost of the CT cabinet, large wire and disconnects...

The first step to a project like this is doing load calcs. Youre doing it backwards. And most PoCos want the load calcs before preceeding with upgrading an already large domestic service.

Have u done a load calc on the house? Or the shop?

If not do that and get back to us.

What loads will u have in the shop?

I bet u could easily feed the shop off that 400a service.....

 

[Aceman]

Where at in eastern Washington?

 

[Toomanytools?]

Nobody needs 600A service to their property - is this a commercial operation ?

The typical next step from a 200A service is a 400A service which is also known as 320A service using two 200A main breakers.

If you have 400A service, there is no problem having a 200A sub panel.

Is there something special about your situation/loads ?

If not, you are considering spending a lot of unnecessary funds.

Never say nobody did plenty of Mcmansions in Seattle with 600amp services.

 

[Toomanytools?]

Ok I'll try and answer, House built in 1977, large 4300 square feet not a lot of load the 400amps coming in is not totally used. It was on farmland/orchard has two wells with pumps and a outbuilding small barn light and a heater in the winter. I'm looking at 200a in the shop small woodworking shop not a lot of load one or two man operation. So tablesaw 20a, dust collection 20a, planer, band saw ect nothing pulling more than 30amps. Outlets for welder and RV hookup, lighting in the shop and RV space total square footage 3000 sqft. Not heating or cooling at this time.

As above, why would you not simply feed the 200A shop off the 400A 'home' panel?

Perhaps you are stipulating certain things about this project that are causing them to respond with a pretty odd-sounding solution... Who could possibly need 600A?? Unless you are insisting "I want a totally separate 200A service to the shop, I don't want it fed from the house"..and they are saying "OK, this guy is nuts- let's give him what he wants"

Dunno, but something is off here it seems....

REA said since I have 400amp at their meter base, 400 going to house I don't have the capacity to get 200 to the shop. I maybe could redo panel(s) in the house and have one 200amp panel then pull off house for shop.
The other factor was not to have 2 meters since each is charged $58/meter/month.
I have talked with the REA field engineer to get around this with no luck, believe me if I don't need it I don't want to shell out for the equipment.

Doing a load calc for the house is about 180 amps.
Thanks

Another guy down the street had the same issue but his house had 400a going to it with a 200a panel so he was able to run 200 to the shop. Still he was required to install a CT cabinet and two disconnects one for shop and one for house all said and done over $1500 in parts.
Ashamsi:
If I had a grow operation in the basement I wouldn't be worrying about the money for a service upgrade.
Yes local co-op
The guy I mentioned above tried to fight it went to the state Electrical Guru he said there was no need for what the REA was requiring. REA said he's right but that's what we want and you don't put it in we won't hook up our wire.

So I agree with some of the above 400a for the house not really needed but that's what the builder did before me. I could downsize the shop service 100amps maybe. I have had 3 electricians look at with mostly the same outcome. At this point just trying to source equipment.

 

[ard]

Seems like perhaps you don't/didnt need to involve REA with any of this.

Drop a 100, 125 or 150A breaker at the house into the existing panel, run the wire to the shop, done. Nothing to do with their meter base.

You arent changing anything that REA owns or installs. None of their business, provided the building department is happy...

Knowing they are on some kind of power trip (no pun intended) based on the guy down the street, THAT would have been a key factor.







You say you have "400A at the house"... maybe describe what that means. One panel, with one 400A main breaker? Two 200A subpanels? What kind of equipment and how is it arranged?

 

[thewatusi]

..and they are saying "OK, this guy is nuts- let's give him what he wants"
...

Ding ding ding

 

[Toomanytools?]

Ding ding ding

Hey it started as "I don't want two meters"
Then on they went with what "they" said I needed. I'm not having an ego rush thinking "oh boy 600amps".
This is what the neighbor had to do nothing special about the loads there.

 

[nsula_country]

Personally I have a 400 amp (320 amp resi) at my residence. I installed during new construction due to all electric, 2 heat pumps with resistive heat, double ovens, and 2 tankless 27 kW water heaters plus the capacity to run a 100 amp future shop feed.

Fast forward and shop ended up about 700' from the house... It has its own 200 amp service. Meter service IS NOT $58/mo.

I would follow the advice here. 100-125 amp breaker to feed shop from existing panel. Did you say you had an exterior 200 amp feed through panel? If so, that is where I would place breaker to feed shop. You can run a lot of equipment off of 100-125 amp sub panel.


FYI, in our area... 600 amp is a shunt meter. It is a big boy! CTs aren't used until above 600 amp is required.

CT

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Ok I'll try and answer, House built in 1977, large 4300 square feet not a lot of load the 400amps coming in is not totally used. It was on farmland/orchard has two wells with pumps and a outbuilding small barn light and a heater in the winter. I'm looking at 200a in the shop small woodworking shop not a lot of load one or two man operation. So tablesaw 20a, dust collection 20a, planer, band saw ect nothing pulling more than 30amps. Outlets for welder and RV hookup, lighting in the shop and RV space total square footage 3000 sqft. Not heating or cooling at this time.

REA said since I have 400amp at their meter base, 400 going to house I don't have the capacity to get 200 to the shop. I maybe could redo panel(s) in the house and have one 200amp panel then pull off house for shop.
The other factor was not to have 2 meters since each is charged $58/meter/month.
I have talked with the REA field engineer to get around this with no luck, believe me if I don't need it I don't want to shell out for the equipment.

Doing a load calc for the house is about 180 amps.
Thanks

Another guy down the street had the same issue but his house had 400a going to it with a 200a panel so he was able to run 200 to the shop. Still he was required to install a CT cabinet and two disconnects one for shop and one for house all said and done over $1500 in parts.
Ashamsi:
If I had a grow operation in the basement I wouldn't be worrying about the money for a service upgrade.
Yes local co-op
The guy I mentioned above tried to fight it went to the state Electrical Guru he said there was no need for what the REA was requiring. REA said he's right but that's what we want and you don't put it in we won't hook up our wire.

So I agree with some of the above 400a for the house not really needed but that's what the builder did before me. I could downsize the shop service 100amps maybe. I have had 3 electricians look at with mostly the same outcome. At this point just trying to source equipment.

With the loads in the shop that you described, I dont think you need 200a.

Do a load calc on the shop.

And Ive never seen a house that needed CTs for 400a service. Your co-op sounds like they like to go overkill....

 

[ard]

Hey it started as "I don't want two meters"
Then on they went with what "they" said I needed. I'm not having an ego rush thinking "oh boy 600amps".
This is what the neighbor had to do nothing special about the loads there.

Again, WHY did you even TALK to REA?

 

[Toomanytools?]

Again, WHY did you even TALK to REA?

Because pulling power from the house was not going to be an easy task, and at first electrician was saying the house had 200amps and I wouldn't have enough for the shop even if shop was a 100amp service. My service inside has a panel with a 200amp main, then a second panel that looks to be a subpanel no main breaker. Previous owner did some shady work as the second panel isn't fused with a main 200 breaker. This will be fixed.

So the REA meter base is like a mobile home pedestal stuck in the ground. Not on the house like normal. So REA was out years back upgrading transformer and I asked if I could pull power from the meter base. It went from there.
They are overkill here, want disconnects on all new stuff. we pay $58 for meter that's the basic monthly, then if you do a second meter on the outbuilding add 58/month that is what I didn't want.

Anyway thanks for the help, I will do a load calc on shop see what I really need maybe I can get the house main panels redone and pull power to shop.

 

[EOC_Jason]

Well... if you are going to get that much service, might as well demand 240V 3-Phase (high leg delta)... *grin* Then you get to have all sorts of fun with big equipment.

How far is the shop from the house? Like others have said, probably running 100-150A service off one of your home panels to the shop would likely be the path of least resistance (i.e. no poco involvement) assuming the distance isn't too far.

I would really hate to have to price together all the upgrades for the combined 600A service and would also be curious what they will charge you for CT service.

 

[ard]

Because pulling power from the house was not going to be an easy task, and at first electrician was saying the house had 200amps and I wouldn't have enough for the shop even if shop was a 100amp service. My service inside has a panel with a 200amp main, then a second panel that looks to be a subpanel no main breaker. Previous owner did some shady work as the second panel isn't fused with a main 200 breaker. This will be fixed.

So the REA meter base is like a mobile home pedestal stuck in the ground. Not on the house like normal. So REA was out years back upgrading transformer and I asked if I could pull power from the meter base. It went from there.
They are overkill here, want disconnects on all new stuff. we pay $58 for meter that's the basic monthly, then if you do a second meter on the outbuilding add 58/month that is what I didn't want.

Anyway thanks for the help, I will do a load calc on shop see what I really need maybe I can get the house main panels redone and pull power to shop.

Got it.

One thought.

You could pull "200Amp ready" wire from house to shop. And you could install a "200A subpanel" in the garage...and then connect it all to a 100/125 breaker. That way, if- in the future- you need more, all your work is then at the house- and not removing any wiring, shop service, etc, etc.

GL!

 

[nsula_country]

Got it.

One thought.

You could pull "200Amp ready" wire from house to shop. And you could install a "200A subpanel" in the garage...and then connect it all to a 100/125 breaker. That way, if- in the future- you need more, all your work is then at the house- and not removing any wiring, shop service, etc, etc.

GL!

+1

If you do run a service between house and shop. And said service is truly 400 (320) service... Run 200 amp worth of wire.

CT

 

[prostreetamx]

I've wired many houses with free standing 600a services with a separate section for the power company to hook to. The power company supplied the CT's and I would give them the cover the meter attached to so they could prewire it. Most of these houses had pretty big A/C loads and some big cooking stuff. I did not do this one but a house next to one I did even had 2 400a meter main services side by side. I did a house for the home builders show that exceeded the 400a service when they added to many electric features. I ended up adding a 200a meter main next to the existing 400a. My personal house that I wired myself was wired with a Siemens 400a that actually has a 200a at the main section and has spaces for 2 100a sub panel breakers. One of those spaces was open until recently when I added my new garage. A plug in meter is only rated for 320a for resi but they do make an actual 400a rated meter main that uses a bolt in meter.