New Epoxy lifting :(

[leeklm]

Hey All,

It has been quite a while since I have been on the Forum, and from the looks of my new floor, I should have spent a little more time here... Here's the story:

My first floor experience was putting down Rock Solid on my new shop floor a few years back. Concrete was new, just did an acid wash, wiped with acetone, and all is holding up well. I was impressed with that, so decided to add some new life to my 20 year old house-garage.

Being in MN, the floor was looking pretty tough, full of salt/freeze pockets up to 3/4" deep baseball size, spalling, etc. The area where nobody parks a car looked great yet.

I spent the entire month of september preparing and repairing the floor, taking my time, and trying to do it right. I was not going for a show-floor, but want to repair and seal it, hoping to get more life from the floor while making look at least a little better. My process included:

--Pressure Wash Floor, scrub with purple cleaner,
--Treat a few oil stains with Acetone & Pour & Restore (not at same time)
--Rented a 10" diamond cup floor grinder to hit the rough areas, ended up with about 60 LBs of dust in the bag when done
--Chased the cracks with masonry disk, and ground out the holes with a 4" diamond cup wheel.
--repaired cracks & holes with various products. My favorite btw was the Rustoleum 2-part crack repair
--Went over entire floor with Diamabrush from Home Depot.
--Washed & degreased floor again, scrubbed with stiff broom & rinse, clean up with wet vac
--Etched floor with Muradic acid- good scrub/ rinse & wet vac
--After dry, wiped floor down with Acetone. Used about 2 gallons in my 640 ft floor
--Floor seemed really clean when running my hand over it

So now after a couple of days with fan and dehumidifier running, I put down 2 coats of Durall Dura-Poxy. I was going to go with Legacy, but Durall is local, and buddy of mine had good results years back.

We had beautiful weather last week, perfect for the job. After leaving it to dry for several days, we started to park cars on it. I just noticed tonight that the epoxy is lifting in the area where the front wheels from both vehicles sat. (see pic).

I can only assume something was wrong with my prep. My only thought now is to leave it until spring and see how bad it gets, then decide next steps from there...

Any thoughts on what might have went wrong?

 

[Scott r c]

moisture?

 

[Shea]

It could be one of a couple of things since it's coming up where the front tires are. Epoxy takes a full 7 days to cure. If you waited just a few days, particularly if you had cool nights, it may not have cured enough and the hot tires caused it to pull up. The second thing it may be is silicone tire dressing in the cement. This can be hard to get up and if not, it can cause the epoxy to lift.

With all the pressure washing and multiple scrub downs and rinsing you did, a question about moisture makes sense as well. Did you do the simple moisture test with plastic the night before you applied the epoxy?

 

[leeklm]

Thanks for the reply. I had a brain-fart on the moisture test, which i did NOT do. With the dehumidifier running, I was not pulling much water out of the air, so thought I would be in good shape.

I will cross my fingers that it is not moisture, and I drove on it too soon... But something tells me it was moisture just by the conditions I am seeing. On the one car, it would have only driven 2 miles at 20mph before hitting the garage, so tire temps would hardly be above air temp in the 60's.

If I only have the problem on the area where the cars sit, I will consider myself lucky and just do some patching next year. Hopefully the whole thing does not start pulling up as we go through some freeze/thaw cycles.

 

[shaun oriold1]

Thanks for the reply. I had a brain-fart on the moisture test, which i did NOT do. With the dehumidifier running, I was not pulling much water out of the air, so thought I would be in good shape.

I will cross my fingers that it is not moisture, and I drove on it too soon... But something tells me it was moisture just by the conditions I am seeing. On the one car, it would have only driven 2 miles at 20mph before hitting the garage, so tire temps would hardly be above air temp in the 60's.

If I only have the problem on the area where the cars sit, I will consider myself lucky and just do some patching next year. Hopefully the whole thing does not start pulling up as we go through some freeze/thaw cycles.

Doing a moisture test is always a good idea. Though its only beneficial if you opt to put a moisture barrier down if your readings are high. It takes a day longer, and costs more. I keep some on hand for my floors I do for customers. I test the floors when I quote, and build it into my price, and time frame. If you're shipping in material, and dont have it on hand, you need to put your project on hold while you wait.... I bet most people dont. As well. The reading is really only good for the time you tested. IF you have poor drainage, and test after a dry spell, your reading will be low. Once the rain comes it all changes!

Another thing to consider is that there are a lot of cheap tires shipping from overseas. Who knows what the rubber compound is made from. I'm sure this contributes to tire marks, and lifting.

So potential reasons for lifting: Poor prep, moisture, dirt on the concrete, oil on the concrete, tires, not fully mixing epoxy, parking cars on too soon.

It sometimes pays to hire a professional to do a floor. Time is money!

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Was a primer used?

 

[leeklm]

nope, no primer.

 

[jaye944]

Epoxy takes a full 7 days to cure. If you waited just a few days, particularly if you had cool nights, it may not have cured enough and the hot tires caused it to pull up. The second thing it may be is silicone tire dressing in the cement. This can be hard to get up and if not, it can cause the epoxy to lift.

With all the pressure washing and multiple scrub downs and rinsing you did, a question about moisture makes sense as well. Did you do the simple moisture test with plastic the night before you applied the epoxy?

^^^^ what he said, plus for sure NO parking or driving for at least 7 days..

otherwise you'll get HTP. Hot Tire Pickup

 

[leeklm]

again, thanks for replies. I will see how it goes after a few weeks and report back. With any luck it is just a spot-thing related to parking on it too soon. I will be a very happy guy if that is all it is!!

Otherwise, I may be testing out the diamabrush surface remover disk next spring... And just to be safe, you can bet I will be using a primer next time

 

[thegarageguy]

nope, no primer.

there is your answer

 

[ontcanuck]

This was the main reason I went to this, no hassle just a sweep & vacuum and lay it down. Tuff Seal interlocking tiles sold by Justin from garage flooring LLC http://www.garageflooringllc.com/tuff-seal/

 

[jaye944]

Nope, I never used primer.

It depends on the product, AS LONG as the floor is properly prepped then you DONT need to ues a primer,

ALTHOUGH I used 2 coats of base coat.

I think the problem here, is the parking well before the epoxy had cured

there is your answer

 

[thegarageguy]

Nope, I never used primer.

AS LONG as the floor is properly prepped then you DONT need to ues a primer,

That is just not the case....there are primers specifically formulated to penetrate and anchor to a substrate. Using regular epoxy, especially over a dense slab will not allow to penetrate it, especially because of it's thicker nature.

A properly prepared substrate with the right epoxy system and application will only come off with a chunk of the concrete. Your pics show that it never penetrated and is sitting on top of the slab.

You will need to completely grind off and grind down your slab (make it porous), then contact someone like Legacy or Armorpoxy or any other reputable product seller on this forum and purchase a good and complete system.

Good luck.

 

[leeklm]

Quick update...

So far I have had no further problems, even with dragging the slow blower w/chains across the floor, scraping snow & ice off, etc. Looks like i simply parked on the material a little too early.

I do agree with the reasoning of using a primer (which I did not), but if the primer helped that much for a given epoxy, why would the mfg not "highly recommend" or insist that it be used? If it makes the epoxy stand up better, it is a win/win for the mfg so they are not getting slammed on forums like this, and get to sell you some primer.

I am sure this topic has been covered a million times here on the forum, but next time I will definitely look into the primer. Keeping fingers crossed that I only have to do a couple of spot repairs come this spring!

One more question/comment regarding the interlocking tile floors... What keeps all the snow & water from seeping under the tile, collecting in the low spots, and causing a cesspool of a stank, stinking mess?

 

[Shea]

but if the primer helped that much for a given epoxy, why would the mfg not "highly recommend" or insist that it be used?

Because it then makes his product more expensive to put down than the other guy. It's all marketing when it comes to epoxy product directed towards the DIY crowd. Some DIY people even assume (incorrectly) that if you have to use a primer with product X for example, then it must not be as good as product Y that does not require one.