New EV and Dryer Buddy

[Wrager]

Howdy, my first post.
I just bought an EV and looking to charge using 240v. My dryer is literally on the other side of the garage wall. I was thinking of using the Dryer Buddy
and outdoor outlet they sell. The outlet would have to go through the wall to the garage. Is this a bad idea?

 

[jkeyser14]

You can't just cut a hole in the wall and run a cord through it since the garage wall needs to be a firewall per code. Your best bet would be to pay an electrician to install a new outlet in the garage. It typically runs $750-$1250 for a NEMA 14-50 install depending on your house and local price factors.

Piece of advice from Tesla owners, don't mention it is for an EV, they will charge more because they think you have $$$. Tell them it is for a welder or another dryer.

 

[Wrager]

You aren't kidding. I had an electrician come by last week to give me an estimate. Should have moved the Tesla out of sight. Any way my panel is full and I have a sub panel (60 amp) for my theater. He said I would need a "Service Upgrade" to 300 amps. And of course once you do that you have to comply to all new codes. The estimate was $11,789.

I wonder, since my sub panel no way needs all 60 amps, could I swap the breaker to a 30 amp. Then use a couple of tandem breakers to free up space for another 30 amp breaker. Wouldn't my load be essentially the same?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Have you done a load calc? Did the EC do a load calc? If not, how could he know you need an upgrade?

$11K is insane!

What electric loads do you have?

Just because the breaker dpaces are all full, doesnt mean your service is maxed out

No way would i put an EV charger on a dryer circuit.

Run a new circuit....

 

[MoonRise]

Oh, just run the Tesla charger off of the standard 15 amp 120 V NEMA 5-15 already in the garage.

That will charge the Tesla up just fine. Will take something like 100+ hours to do it if you have the 'big' battery and are pretty empty, but it will do it.



Tesla chargers for your home can run off of 120V 15 amp circuit, all the way up to a 100 amp 240V circuit. The 'commercial' SuperChargers are different beasts (putting out 120 kW of DC right to the battery system).

So just saying 'I want to put in an outlet for my EV' is not really enough info.

As to tapping into your electric dryer circuit/outlet, NOPE.

A Tesla Gen2 MobileConnector can run (be plugged into, with the appropriate adapters) a NEMA 6-50 or a NEMA 14-50 240 V 50 amp receptacle, which would be on a 240 V 50 amp circuit breaker.

But Tesla also has their WallConnector, which can be wired and configured to run off of a 240V circuit up to a max of a 100 amp breaker. But it can be configured for use on lower amperage circuits, down to 15 or 20 amps. Lower amperage usage means lower power input and output and slower charging times.

So, you have options.

 

[jayoldschool]

What EV did you buy? We need to know this to know the max charging rate. We can then tell you what breaker/wire/outlet to use for your EVSE. You don't necessarily need a dryer circuit.

 

[sberry]

50 would likely charge overnight. I might figure out how to tap it for another 6 space panel. Would try to do it on 50 unless there was an absolute compelling reason, or it was free if already had 400 or similar.

 

[jkeyser14]

What EV did you buy? We need to know this to know the max charging rate. We can then tell you what breaker/wire/outlet to use for your EVSE. You don't necessarily need a dryer circuit.

He followed up saying he has a Tesla. That's good because their mobile charger will work on any circuit.

 

[jeepxj]

the problem is passing thru the wall to do it "legally"

that theater sub panel can be redone to get a 30a circuit mounted in the garage. if you have 200a service and a normalish american home you got enough overhead for a 30a240 charge circuit in 99% of the cases.

the electricians quote for 11k does make me wonder wtf you got going on. photos would help.

 

[jeepxj]

He followed up saying he has a Tesla. That's good because their mobile charger will work on any circuit.

not sure of any EV cars out there that won't work on normal electricity.

 

[alfredeneuman]

He said I would need a "Service Upgrade" to 300 amps.

There's no such thing as a 300 amp service.
They go directly from 200 to 400, with nothing in between.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

There's no such thing as a 300 amp service.
They go directly from 200 to 400, with nothing in between.

whoops i missed that.

Thats a red flag with this EC

 

[dscheidt]

There's no such thing as a 300 amp service.
They go directly from 200 to 400, with nothing in between.

No, 300A service and meter pans are a thing. They're installed in some places where the POCO requires a CT meter for 400A service. It's done the same way 400A is, except 150A breakers instead of 200A. Georgia Power is one of those utilities.

 

[jeepxj]

maybe he meant 320a service?

 

[alfredeneuman]

No, 300A service and meter pans are a thing. They're installed in some places where the POCO requires a CT meter for 400A service. It's done the same way 400A is, except 150A breakers instead of 200A. Georgia Power is one of those utilities.

What companies make them?
Is it a field installed thing or can you buy them pre-made?
EDIT: Is it just a 400A meter pan and a 400 A service with 150A breakers?

 

[dscheidt]

What companies make them?
Is it a field installed thing or can you buy them pre-made?
EDIT: Is it just a 400A meter pan and a 400 A service with 150A breakers?

GE does, probably others.
https://www.winsupplyinc.com/ge/_/A-06468587
I expect a lot of them are 400 pans, with 150A breakers instead of 200A.

 

[Bretny]

Isnt the power needed to charge an EV something you figure out prior to actualy getting one?

It's like buying a car then figuring out where to park it with no driveway space.

 

[jeepxj]

Isnt the power needed to charge an EV something you figure out prior to actualy getting one?

It's like buying a car then figuring out where to park it with no driveway space.

you're telling me they build houses with electricity built in now? no way.

 

[jkeyser14]

not sure of any EV cars out there that won't work on normal electricity.

A lot of EV chargers have very specific circuit sizing requirements (i.e. must have a 50A circuit) and only work on 240. Tesla's charger will literally take any size circuit and any household voltage (including european 3 phase). It even has a lot of protections against damaged household wiring and poor connections by monitoring the voltage curve as charge current ramps up. So a Tesla is much more forgiving in terms of wiring options.

Ideal is a 50A circuit. If OP's load calc says he can only fit a 30A or 20A 240v outlet per code, Tesla's charger will be ok with that. You just set a different current limit for the charger.

 

[jeepxj]

A lot of EV chargers have very specific circuit sizing requirements (i.e. must have a 50A circuit) and only work on 240. Tesla's charger will literally take any size circuit and any household voltage (including european 3 phase). It even has a lot of protections against damaged household wiring and poor connections by monitoring the voltage curve as charge current ramps up. So a Tesla is much more forgiving in terms of wiring options.

Ideal is a 50A circuit. If OP's load calc says he can only fit a 30A or 20A 240v outlet per code, Tesla's charger will be ok with that. You just set a different current limit for the charger.

Yea tesla really does that that going good with the dial an amp setup. mine is on a 50a circuit and i set my dial to 40. no sense in running the limit.

the others will catch up in time.

 

[sberry]

Ohh,,, it has a dial, that is way too cool. They gonna make this fugger in a minivan?

 

[dcg9381]

There's no such thing as a 300 amp service.
They go directly from 200 to 400, with nothing in between.

Around here there is 320A service.. At least that's what I was sold by the POC.


My "understanding" is that many EV chargers are full 60A. My guess is that you can dial the Tesla charger down to work with what you've got on hand.

You have a 60A sub-panel. Does that panel have 2 slots free?

Ignore your electrician about having to "upgrade" service. That is, unless you're running 2 hot tubs, an electric pool heater, inductive range, electric dryers, and have electrical backup heat... (Seriously - it takes a BIG house to consumer 200A).

On firewalls, I hear fire-stops, which around here, just appear to be some flame retardant material between cooled space and a garage. All the electrical goes through the studs... Someone correct me, if I'm off.

 

[nadogail]

My son's Leaf charges from a 30 Amp 220 Volt Circuit.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Around here there is 320A service.. At least that's what I was sold by the POC.


My "understanding" is that many EV chargers are full 60A. My guess is that you can dial the Tesla charger down to work with what you've got on hand.

You have a 60A sub-panel. Does that panel have 2 slots free?

Ignore your electrician about having to "upgrade" service. That is, unless you're running 2 hot tubs, an electric pool heater, inductive range, electric dryers, and have electrical backup heat... (Seriously - it takes a BIG house to consumer 200A).

On firewalls, I hear fire-stops, which around here, just appear to be some flame retardant material between cooled space and a garage. All the electrical goes through the studs... Someone correct me, if I'm off.

That is a 400a service which is 320a continuous.

 

[Reborn]

Those of you saying not to tap into the dryer circuit, is that because you assume the dryer would be in use? I have pondered this exact scenario for myself (I don't have an EV). My house was set up with both natural gas and power at the dryer location, and I opted to use gas.

 

[jayoldschool]

Most EVs are capable of being programmed to only charge at certain times. Tell the car to charge in the middle of the night when power is cheap and you aren't drying clothes.

 

[Mgnu]

I think it has been mentioned, but the Tesla wall connectors have a dial to select the amperage for them. Older units went to 100A, I "think" the newer ones max out at 50A, but acknowledge I may be wrong on that part.

That said, I have two of them. One set to charge @ 40A (its on a 50A breaker), and another one set to 24A (on a 30A breaker). The 40A is good to charge my car @36 miles per hour of charge, and the 24A is good for, I think, 24 miles per hour of charge. I can double check that if you want. Tesla should also have tables on their website that explain. Different size battery packs and onboard charger limits vary by models.

Hope that helps, let me know if you have questions.

 

[jlv03]

Did anyone catch that the OP mentioned the term "Dryer Buddy"?

If I understand the Dryer Buddy website correctly (https://www.bsaelectronics.com/collections/dryer-buddys ), this device will automatically switch between the dryer and EV to prevent overloading the circuit.

If that is the case, I would wonder if this Dryer Buddy could be mounted on the laundry room wall with a hardwired run going from the backside of it to the garage wall on the otherside.

 

[jbwilkins]

Have you done a load calc? Did the EC do a load calc? If not, how could he know you need an upgrade?

$11K is insane!

What electric loads do you have?

Just because the breaker dpaces are all full, doesnt mean your service is maxed out

No way would i put an EV charger on a dryer circuit.

Run a new circuit....

Depends on what the power company wants to pull a new service, length of the run, etc. If it's invoking new codes, basically your entire panel is junk, arc faults are required on almost every circuit today.

 

[P0234]

Find another electrician. I went through the same thing, as soon as I told them it was for an EV, quotes escalated to $1500 for a simple 14-50 outlet from a fairly empty 200 amp panel to a location where I already had a very clear path to get to.

I found an awesome guy that was willing to work by the hour. Got the 14-50, a generator interlock, wiring for the generator, quite a few circuits moved between panels and a couple of additional outlets done for $300 including tip. I provided most materials, he had some scrap wire he provided. I had everything as ready as it could be for him and we got all that done in two hours.

 

[TractorJeff]

No, 300A service and meter pans are a thing. They're installed in some places where the POCO requires a CT meter for 400A service. It's done the same way 400A is, except 150A breakers instead of 200A. Georgia Power is one of those utilities.

I don't get this post on Breaker sizing?

 

[Wrager]

Depends on what the power company wants to pull a new service, length of the run, etc. If it's invoking new codes, basically your entire panel is junk, arc faults are required on almost every circuit today.

That is exactly right. The guy said once we get into the new service, everything has to meet new codes including all of those arc fault breakers you are referring to. $40.00 instead of $4.00. He also said something about hard wired smoke and CO detectors within 10 ft of every bedroom. Bla, bla….

 

[nadogail]

IMHO, You appear to have contacted a Salesman, not a "Good Old Boy" Electrician. Ask around to your friends and acquaintances for a referral to somebody who "can fix you up" with an outlet for Charging your Electric Car.

Avoid any reference to Tesla, the genius physicist.