New Floor Jack Inherently Safer?

[artbuc]

My 25 yo 2-1/4 ton Alltrade still works great. It is a sturdy well built unit but I wonder if/when she may blow. It is obsolete although I guess I could tear it down and get my local hydraulic shop to match orings. I already asked them about rebuilding it but they said it would not be cost effective. They really do not want to mess with it.

I am thinking about the HF Daytona since it gets such good reviews here. Is it a good assumption that a brand new Daytona will be inherently safer and far less likely to catastrophically fail compared to my old Alltrade? I ask because sometimes old stuff is better than new. Thanks.

 

[zendriver]

If it were mine, I just continue to use it. I’m not having any problem with it.

It might last another 25 years

Rebuilding it will just invite problems IMO


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[ajchien]

Do you have a model number on the Alltrade?

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

Usually they don’t fail unless it is a big problem but I have a Daytona one at home the 3 ton and it is amazing I am using it today to work on my dads car. I like the variety of colors too and they just recently added the blue ones mine is the black one. We have 6 of them at work and I have used them all we have had no problems with them they replaced the old ones we had which we all took home and the Daytona are very sturdy we grease them regularly too they are about a year old and haven’t had no problems with it so if you are going to get a new one the Daytona is definitely the way to go


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[Hiball]

1st off 25yrs is a good run, I suspect it carries a Ucup versus the Oring retainer. What I have found over the years in regards to Poly Ucups in piston applications is that they very seldom give you a catastrophic failure under load, the reason being is while under load, there is really No where for them to destruct. The normal complaint is the Jack worked fine, but when I went to take the vehicle off the stands, it wouldn’t lift. Upon further inspection, it’s found that the Ucup is in multiple pieces when disassembled.

Are New jacks inherently safer? We went thru some terrible QC years in regards to import lift equipment, Lots of Junk sold. If I was in your shoes, at 25 years I’d be keeping my eyes open for a Replacement. I wouldn’t go with the Daytona, mainly because of the Oring/retainer used on the Main Ram. I would look into the Torin, Northern tool Yellow jacket, Menards version as they carry Ucups all around. I would rank ease of warranty above the warranty period.

There is a recent thread floating around in regards to what models is what, maybe someone could be kind enough to link it here for you. If your wanting something a little more time tested and don’t need quick lift, the HW93642/52 are great jacks, Lots of compliments on the AC Hydraulic models along with Compaq for a European feel. If you can find one, Milwaukee Model 20/40 are also quality units.

Hope this helps

 

[matt_i]

Agree with HiBall's assessment from a forklift mast cylinder point-of-view. The U-cups started leaking as a sign something was wrong. They never blew out but the old ones also were thoroughly cracked in pieces. Not that a jack wouldn't be but a forklift mast blowout could potentially be very large in catastrophe.

 

[ajchien]

...I wouldn’t go with the Daytona, mainly because of the Oring/retainer used on the Main Ram. I would look into the Torin, Northern tool Yellow jacket, Menards version as they carry Ucups all around. I would rank ease of warranty above the warranty period.

There is a recent thread floating around in regards to what models is what, maybe someone could be kind enough to link it here for you. If your wanting something a little more time tested and don’t need quick lift, the HW93642/52 are great jacks, Lots of compliments on the AC Hydraulic models along with Compaq for a European feel. If you can find one, Milwaukee Model 20/40 are also quality units.

Hope this helps

I think Hiball is referring to:

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=458826

WittHay is the poster at the end that summarizes the various newer “Snap On clones”. HiBall near the beginning noted the variations in the main ram seal used, with IMHO, a major point being if you see an import Jack “... that uses seal kit T830008.MF does use Ucups all around.”

 

[MikeF2316]

I have a 25 year old Alltrade too. It still works perfectly and I have no plans to replace it, I'm always careful using jack stands. Nowadays, we have 2 new cars, and I have access to a lift for oil changes and winter tire swaps. I use it very seldom, only putting on the winters when we have a surprise early snowstorm like last fall.

 

[Iowafox]

we grease them regularly too they are about a year old and haven’t had no problems with it so if you are going to get a new one the Daytona is definitely the way to go


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What size grease zerk do you use or did you replace with the factory one?
I ask because common ones are bigger then what come on the daytona ones. I have a green 3ton low profile and LOVE it. I just wanna grease it and replace the zerk with a common size head.

 

[Iowafox]

I think if it works keep using it. I have a 3ton Daytona low profile and LOVE it. Will it last for a good number of years? I hope so.
I got it because I have a old 1977 Cutlass Supreme and it is pretty low to the ground. I didn't wanna risk standard jacks being to big. I also have a 2019 Ford Escape and a 2000 Silverado z71 and it rises high enough to get the tires a good 5 inches off the ground so I say if you get a new one go with a low profile since it will rise high enough for everything almost from cars, SUV's and trucks. This is just opinion.

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

What size grease zerk do you use or did you replace with the factory one?

I ask because common ones are bigger then what come on the daytona ones. I have a green 3ton low profile and LOVE it. I just wanna grease it and replace the zerk with a common size head.

I believe it’s like a 10mm it’s been awhile but yes you are correct none of my grease gun bits at work or home would fit so we replaced the ones at work too


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[BlakeTheCarGuy]

I think if it works keep using it. I have a 3ton Daytona low profile and LOVE it. Will it last for a good number of years? I hope so.
I got it because I have a old 1977 Cutlass Supreme and it is pretty low to the ground. I didn't wanna risk standard jacks being to big. I also have a 2019 Ford Escape and a 2000 Silverado z71 and it rises high enough to get the tires a good 5 inches off the ground so I say if you get a new one go with a low profile since it will rise high enough for everything almost from cars, SUV's and trucks. This is just opinion.

Oh yeah it will last years we had them when I was leaving high school they were brand new and I am doing college classes there now and them and the two thirty year old Pittsburgh jacks have held up still also. And you know when something holds up with high school students it must be good. I have a black low profile one like you mentioned (they just added blue which I want one of those too lol) my parents bought it for me for Christmas and I have used it a lot also. I told the supplies manager at work since our jacks were getting old and starting to leak that they were good so he bought six of them for our shop 3 green ones and 3 orange ones and they have worked great when we have to use them even some of the guys I work with use them at home and have said great things about it. I read online that Snap-on was suing them for copying the design so I don’t know if they have come to agreements yet or not it looks identical to the Snap-on ones honestly.


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[artbuc]

1st off 25yrs is a good run, I suspect it carries a Ucup versus the Oring retainer. What I have found over the years in regards to Poly Ucups in piston applications is that they very seldom give you a catastrophic failure under load, the reason being is while under load, there is really No where for them to destruct. The normal complaint is the Jack worked fine, but when I went to take the vehicle off the stands, it wouldn’t lift. Upon further inspection, it’s found that the Ucup is in multiple pieces when disassembled.

Are New jacks inherently safer? We went thru some terrible QC years in regards to import lift equipment, Lots of Junk sold. If I was in your shoes, at 25 years I’d be keeping my eyes open for a Replacement. I wouldn’t go with the Daytona, mainly because of the Oring/retainer used on the Main Ram. I would look into the Torin, Northern tool Yellow jacket, Menards version as they carry Ucups all around. I would rank ease of warranty above the warranty period.

There is a recent thread floating around in regards to what models is what, maybe someone could be kind enough to link it here for you. If your wanting something a little more time tested and don’t need quick lift, the HW93642/52 are great jacks, Lots of compliments on the AC Hydraulic models along with Compaq for a European feel. If you can find one, Milwaukee Model 20/40 are also quality units.

Hope this helps

Thanks Hiball. Looked up my notes. This old girl is an all o ring design...no u-cups, at least I think so. Parts diagram shows this seal arrangement: ram seal washer, o ring retainer, o ring, seal retainer washer. Maybe the “oring retainer” is a u-cup? Model is 689-J-214. Does that change your recommendation? One concern I have about Northern Tools is return shipping if I need a warranty claim. It will be expensive and a major pita!

 

[lardy1]

I'm getting close to buying a new floor jack. I started a thread (3 ton floor jack) where I posed questions and reviewed the answers from members.

My conclusion: I'm buying the MasterForce. It's the same price (basically) as the Daytona, the NAPA, the Yellow Jacket and a host of others. It was pointed out to me that the additional year of warranty on the Yellow Jacket may not be such a great deal because there are no Northern Tool outlets around here. I would be paying return shipping. The MasterForce can be warranted just a few miles from home and it uses the U-cup seal.

These guys have helped me decide by sharing their experience and knowledge. I'm not sure anyone else would come to the same conclusion. But soon I'll be visiting my local Menard's.

 

[artbuc]

Right. I have a Tractor Supply 14 miles away that stocks the JackBoss. Another TS is much closer but does not carry it. Going to give them a call to see if they can get it in. If not, 14 miles isn’t too bad at all.

 

[BrandoJames]

I told the supplies manager at work since our jacks were getting old and starting to leak that they were good so he bought six of them for our shop 3 green ones and 3 orange ones and they have worked great... I read online that Snap-on was suing them for copying the design

Don't you guys have lifts at your shop? The local indy garage I use (when my DIY skills fail) have two lifts; they also have a couple of floor jacks if they need to roll in a third vehicle.

I own the Daytona 3 Ton Yellow (DJ3000), which was the subject of the Snap-on lawsuit. I can definitely recommend it for DIY use, but I'm always hesitant to recommend anything for professional use. I did notice that YouTube mechanics Eric O. of South Main Auto and Scotty Kilmer both own the Daytona DJ3000. That certainly influenced my buying decision.

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

Don't you guys have lifts at your shop? The local indy garage I use (when my DIY skills fail) have two lifts; they also have a couple of floor jacks if they need to roll in a third vehicle.

I own the Daytona 3 Ton Yellow (DJ3000), which was the subject of the Snap-on lawsuit. I can definitely recommend it for DIY use, but I'm always hesitant to recommend anything for professional use. I did notice that YouTube mechanics Eric O. of South Main Auto and Scotty Kilmer both own the Daytona DJ3000. That certainly influenced my buying decision.

We do have lifts but occasionally the jacks come in handy like if we have to go to the parking lot to check out a car like for suspension play or something like that or it helps if we need to push something out like seized tie rod ends take a block of wood and a jack and lower the car down on to it and it pops the tie rod end right out. Yes they both have them and I read great things about them so I got mine and they had said great things about them and I personally like them.


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[Hiball]

Thanks Hiball. Looked up my notes. This old girl is an all o ring design...no u-cups, at least I think so. Parts diagram shows this seal arrangement: ram seal washer, o ring retainer, o ring, seal retainer washer. Maybe the “oring retainer” is a u-cup? Model is 689-J-214. Does that change your recommendation? One concern I have about Northern Tools is return shipping if I need a warranty claim. It will be expensive and a major pita!

If that’s the case, that is surprising... generally that thin lip won’t give you that kind of lifespan. In regards to the possibility of needing to ship something like a Hydraulic jack, Even if they cover the shipping. I would still try and patronize something more local “just in case”, I wouldn’t want to worry about having to pack it up and transport it back and forth etc. I would still go with a UCup model above the Oring/retainer.

 

[artbuc]

If that’s the case, that is surprising... generally that thin lip won’t give you that kind of lifespan. In regards to the possibility of needing to ship something like a Hydraulic jack, Even if they cover the shipping. I would still try and patronize something more local “just in case”, I wouldn’t want to worry about having to pack it up and transport it back and forth etc. I would still go with a UCup model above the Oring/retainer.

Yep, just found the Torin JackBoss just a few miles away at local Tractor Supply.
Not in a rush now that I know jack won’t suddenly crater on me. At this stage of my life I will use jack a couple times per year for maybe another 5-10 years max. Don’t have anyone to pass it on to so buying special tools is always a tough call.

 

[nafterclifen]

@HiBall - I sent you a PM. Let me know what you think.

 

[Mr_B]

The torin, masterforce and northern tools all better spec than the HF .
Once again HF screwing the customer by ordering lower spec to save themselves a few cents .
For all their **** marketing on daytona vs snapon and they pushing the lowest spec on this jack design out of the main retail competitors .
You got be really careful with HF as only few things they do that truly decent tool/value .

 

[bpjr]

I was at this mom and pop tire shop last month getting tires. They had 6 hf jack in service plus the inside lifts. The jacks were beat up and not Daytona models. I asked how the hf jacks were doing and they said no problems. I didn't take pics but look at this link and you can see the handles sticking up at the left by and jacks in use.

https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=e...hUKEwj9pIKUtJjrAhWriK0KHXzDBesQoiowCnoECBEQBg

 

[afm]

Lots of compliments on the AC Hydraulic models along with Compaq for a European feel. If you can find one, Milwaukee Model 20/40 are also quality units.

Second this, my AC Hydraulic DK13HLQ is the most worthwhile tool purchase I've ever made.

 

[artbuc]

Second this, my AC Hydraulic DK13HLQ is the most worthwhile tool purchase I've ever made.

They look nice but from what I can see on the parts diagram they are oring sealed...no ucups. I understand that ucups are superior but maybe a well designed oring seal is good enough.

 

[Hiball]

They look nice but from what I can see on the parts diagram they are oring sealed...no ucups. I understand that ucups are superior but maybe a well designed oring seal is good enough.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with hydraulic applications that Utilize Orings, it boils down to the tolerances/specs of the equipment and finish of the sealing surfaces. The Milwaukee jack line is a prime example, the Rod finish and tolerance is so precise that just by inserting the Rod into cylinder the bore of jack without the Orings is amazingly smooth.

When you take a Oring out of its element and decide to utilize it as a Piston seal with a thin piece of poly to protect it. Yeah... Its **** and a only a attempt for the manufacturer to control the longevity of the product versus using the correct seal For the application.

 

[artbuc]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with hydraulic applications that Utilize Orings, it boils down to the tolerances/specs of the equipment and finish of the sealing surfaces. The Milwaukee jack line is a prime example, the Rod finish and tolerance is so precise that just by inserting the Rod into cylinder the bore of jack without the Orings is amazingly smooth.

When you take a Oring out of its element and decide to utilize it as a Piston seal with a thin piece of poly to protect it. Yeah... Its **** and a only a attempt for the manufacturer to control the longevity of the product versus using the correct seal For the application.

Thx Hiball. Would you agree with the following general statement? If going for a lower end “value priced” jack like HF Daytona or Yellowjacket, make sure you get u-cups but if buying expensive high end like the AC, orings are ok.

 

[Hiball]

Thx Hiball. Would you agree with the following general statement? If going for a lower end “value priced” jack like HF Daytona or Yellowjacket, make sure you get u-cups but if buying expensive high end like the AC, orings are ok.

I don’t like to put “labels” on jacks, I speak more towards the design and components and there applications. I’ve never been inside or seen a AC hydraulic with the exception of pictures here. My thought process, If you are going to spend the same amount of money at the end of the day, choose the Torin/Yellow jacket/Masterforce over the Daytona. In regards to Orings, as I stated earlier there is nothing wrong with Orings being utilized in hydraulic jack applications, UCups are more forgiving and resistant to poor sealing conditions or QC issues.

 

[artbuc]

Thought you might be interested. HCRC has kits for many old Alltrade jacks but not mine. The 2-1/4 ton kit is for a much older Alltrade which was built in Taiwan and it did have u-cups on the ram. I guess when they switched manufacturing over to mainland China they cheapened design to orings. Another factoid, the HCRC data base has my model number listed under Allied. Guy told me back in those days most manufacturers bought the same pump from the same Chinese supplier. They asked for pictures of the parts diagram to see if they could match a kit.

 

[bubinga]

I'm getting close to buying a new floor jack. I started a thread (3 ton floor jack) where I posed questions and reviewed the answers from members.

My conclusion: I'm buying the MasterForce. It's the same price (basically) as the Daytona, the NAPA, the Yellow Jacket and a host of others. It was pointed out to me that the additional year of warranty on the Yellow Jacket may not be such a great deal because there are no Northern Tool outlets around here. I would be paying return shipping. The MasterForce can be warranted just a few miles from home and it uses the U-cup seal.

These guys have helped me decide by sharing their experience and knowledge. I'm not sure anyone else would come to the same conclusion. But soon I'll be visiting my local Menard's.

lardy1

Did you get the Master force jack?
How is it working out, holding up for you?

 

[lardy1]

I didn't. I bought a cheaper, smaller jack. I don't think it's as nice of a jack though. I just decided to put less money there and more money elsewhere.

 

[bubinga]

Thank you lardy1

Anyone else have the Masterforce jack?

 

[drphelgood]

I'm getting close to buying a new floor jack. I started a thread (3 ton floor jack) where I posed questions and reviewed the answers from members.

My conclusion: I'm buying the MasterForce. It's the same price (basically) as the Daytona, the NAPA, the Yellow Jacket and a host of others. It was pointed out to me that the additional year of warranty on the Yellow Jacket may not be such a great deal because there are no Northern Tool outlets around here. I would be paying return shipping. The MasterForce can be warranted just a few miles from home and it uses the U-cup seal.

These guys have helped me decide by sharing their experience and knowledge. I'm not sure anyone else would come to the same conclusion. But soon I'll be visiting my local Menard's.

I have an alltrade no. 662-J-2. I bought it back in the mid 80’s. It still working. For a long time (years) I used it almost daily. Last year the cylinder started leaking a little bit, so I haven’t used it as much. It came with a seal kit when I bought it.
I recently found the kit and going to use it.
I have other jacks, one being a Masterforce 3 ton low profile. It’s less then a year old and the cylinder leaks worst than the alltrade, the handle jams and doesn’t turn to release the pressure, from time to time.
The Craftsman 2 ton low profile aluminum jack is my main one I use. Two years and so far so good.