New garage build?

[Piece-it Pete]

Hello everyone, I can't wait for greetings in the introduction thread, I'm so fired up! I've already picked up some details here to make it better, like digging your openings for the overhead doors down to your footer and adding angle steel, I look forward to those!

But it's the big picture I'm really unsure of. Here's the scoop so far:

My city says 600 sf max, 16' ground to peak. No pole buildings. 5' off property line min.

I've got about 35' side of house to property line, so about 30' to work with (slightly pie shaped, getting wider/further from the house towards the back).

I've got a small house (1000sf) with no basement. I'd like to maximize useful space while staying in budget.

My purposes for this garage are, in order, storage, car parking/repair (I can live with 1 car permanent parking space but need to be able to call it or modify it to 2 in case I sell), mancave for both my and my wife's sanity.

I've decided to go 20' x 30' with the 20' facing the street, the peak facing the street. Because I don't want to set it all the way behind the house it's really the only option.

So it ends up being basically a 2 car garage with a 10 x 20 work/storage space across the back.

Unless! The best quote I've got (all inclusive not including wiring & an opener which I will do myself) is just under $12k. But, that is truss construction.

I was thinking, what if I flatten the roof pitch a bit (my house has a very shallow pitch) and increase wall height, then when the city is out of there, add a floor with 6'2" clearance over the back part, and 8' clearance over the parking area?

That way I would end up with a 10 x 20 storage area & two parking spaces on the 1st floor, a 10 x 20 room and 20 x 20 low ceiling storeroom on the 2nd. Put the man door 10' from the back on the side facing the house. Walk in turn left up the stairs to the room, turn right into the car area.

Or am I being crazy. Two immediate problems I see are, how do I get it built without rafters? And would the roof height be acceptable in the 2nd floor room, or is it just impossible considering the 16' to peak height maximum? (I'm 6' even).

I am way, way open to ideas and suggestions (and comments on cost!).

And one other thing though not nearly as important - if I can get some sort of mancave in this thing my stereo and records will move in, so if there's anything that helps the sound it would be great

Pete

 

[mellamoesrico]

There are several ways to do what you describe, but man you sure are trying to cram 10 pounds of . . . STUFF into a 5 pound bag. My suggestion would be to really spend some time planning this build out, since space is so tight you can't just estimate things.

20x20 is tiny for two cars, but as you said, plenty for one (shorter) car. Draw out a plan (overhead) view of your lot to scale on graph paper. Add in the house, driveway, and other major obstacles. Or just print out a zoomed-in view of your lot from Google Earth. Draw in lot easements, etc. Then you can really see what space is available for garage placement.


You could use "room-in-attic" trusses over the workshop (available with different heel heights), but then there would be no hiding the overhead room from the city inspectors. That leaves rafters over a built ceiling. 6'2" height in your workshop would be unusable! I would do 8ft top & 8 ft bottom, and if anything skimp on height in the overhead room (since you will use it less often). And you will have to give up nearly a foot for the ceiling joists/trusses if you want to use wood. If you set a column in the center of the line where an imaginary wall would separate your workshop form the parking area, it could support a large girder beam at the top of that "wall". Then you could set 10' long 2x8's spaced every 16" from the back wall to this girder beam for your floor joists. Trying to span across the 20' width would require deeper joists that would eat into your already limited height.

You could use normal storage trusses over the cars' parking area. The trick is to figure out sidewall height. Can you live with 7' high doors or do you need 8'? You then need another foot above that for overhead door track. This defines the lower limit for the bottom of your floor joists/trusses over the parking area.

More importantly, draw out on graph paper, or use Google sketch-up (free download) to draw the gable wall profile (bent). Pencil in the overhead doors, ceiling joists, etc. for the parking area on the left side of center peak, and the workshop area on the right hand side. This will help you to see what needs to be moved to fit in everything height-wise.

The guys with serious home theaters usually use double layers of sheetrock with "green glue" between them for sound deadening. See the "theater build section at AVSForums.com for more detail.

 

[Falcon67]

If it's 20' wide and the gable is across that end, it's be easy enough to have a builder spec it in with 2x10 joists and 2x6 rafters on -say- a 6/12 pitch, then just floor the joists with OSB. You would be good to around 10 lb sq/ft at least. That's cheaper than trusses, or should be nearly equal counting labor. If you need more weight carrying capacity over a smaller section, run joists 12" OC or double them up at 16" OC for a short space.

 

[DMARSHALL]

I had about the same problem when i built my garage. The county had a side set back of 15 feet i wanted to build 30x40 detatched on the side. I also have a pie shaped lot and the front corner of my house is 32 feet from the line. So i went down the the county and requesed a boad of adjustment hearing. It took about 60 days but was will worth it they endded up giving me a 0 feet varance so i could build right up to the line.i went on goggle sketch up after looking at several different whys i ended up building a addition on to my attatched garage and since my lot is pie shaped i offset my addition 6 feet back from the front witch work out great now i room for parking on the side. I started my garage in june did all the work my self foundation/floor with hydronic infloor heet/framing/brick /roof and siding. Thank god for all my freinds help and giving up there week end. At this time im almost done only have the final inspection to do after that i will finish the inside dry wall/boiler/insulation.i went from a 400sf garage to 1400sf take your time plan it build it good luck

 

[Piece-it Pete]

Thanks for the comments!

One thing this thread clarifies, I am trying to cram too much in aren't I mellam. It's what happens when you obsess over it for 7 years (I've been planning it that long). No more major car work on the gravel drive! In the winter. Joy.

Soooooo.... I've got to come into reality unless I want a mess. Alright, maybe instead of 2 levels maybe I should stick build the roof as mentioned, and perhaps build a smaller addition on the back later. I'll also attempt to get the city to go 22 or 24 x 32.

I don't have too much of an issue yardwise, I'm sorry if I gave that impression. DM that garage looks great! The big problem I have is my draconian city control issues. How big, what style, how high... you'd think they'd be happy I was building! I wouldn't want it ugly.

I'd consider doing more of the work if I was a more experienced carpenter or knew one I'll stick to wiring, running a gas line, plumbing for air eventually, insulating, cabinets, racks, LP bins, lifts, big screen tvs and disco balls lol.

On sound I thought perhaps there was something in the framing phase that might matter, a long shot. I manufacture mass loaded vinyl so will put that up before the siding goes on. Not to shill, my co doesn't sell to the public but if anyone needs any contact me. If the mention bothers anyone please say so and I'll delete it, just being friendly.

Anyway, just talking about it sure sharpens it up, and some of the garages here are awesome!

Are there any minor things that could be done during planning/framing that might make sense for future improvements?

Pete

 

[Falcon67]

22' wide vs 20' will make a surprising difference when it comes to car tinkering. Wide as you can get. Get on Google Earth and look around your neighborhood. Here, it was easy to find plenty of accessory buildings in various shapes and sizes. If you find a couple in your size range, it may help you in a variance hearing.

>Are there any minor things that could be done during planning/framing that might
>make sense for future improvements?
That's a tough one - kinda have to think long term. For me, I left 10' off the back lot line where the minimum is 3'. So I could add 7' back and 28' wide behind the building if I was so inclined. The mere mention sends the wife up a tree LOL. But I'm a space pig, so.... In any case, I just didn't engineer anything special into that part of the structure. Part of that behind space is to park an extra vehicle (or two) out of sight from the street.

If you were planning on maybe a "lean to" on the back side outa sight kinda thing later, then maybe frame a doorway where you think appropriate and just cover that with your interior finish. If/when the time comes you just cut a hole and you're ready to mount a door, no need to tear an section open for headers, trimmers, etc. If the time never comes you went over budget by maybe $10 in framing, so what.

Plan out your electrical and lighting. I probably spent more time screwing and changing that than anything. I also underestimated how much a building eats wire. I bought a 250' roll of 12-2 when it was $68 and was all happy - that went like spit in the summer sun. I just bought roll #4 yesterday. If you splice anywhere to branch out, use a 4" box. If you ever come back to tie in there, you'll be happy-happy. Note - I use 4" gray plastic boxes made to take a standard 4" cover plate - saves a ground pigtail from the box.

 

[jlckmj]

20X30 with the door in the gable end like you say, would allow you to build 10 foot sidewalls, with scissors trusses that will give you 16 at the peak, about 13 in the center inside, and about 11 or so where a two post lift would sit.

If you place the lift 10 foot off the back wall in the center of the garage you will still be able to park vehicles in the front 20 foot (door) end of the garage when there is nothing on the lift. You will have to move the parked vehicles to access the lift, but that is a small price to pay for the convenience. Build it for the future even if you can not afford a lift now.

ALSO, I second the post above that advised framing up for a door on the back wall for a lean to in the future when the city is not looking. You can frame it out and tell the inspector that you are going to put a window there when you get the money. If it is framed out it is simple to ad the lean to and a door later, with planning you should be able to do it in a day.

Jim

 

[Piece-it Pete]

Thanks again guys. Before diving into the suggestions, I called the city and spoke directly to the head of the building department instead of the help.

I think it just got a LOT better. Main things, 10 foot side setback, not 5. Max 14 ft to the halfway point of the roof, not the peak! Too bad not 16 feet though. Second floor OK as long as there is no permanent stair, pulldown OK.

He also mentioned that, although he couldn't say for sure, going to zoning with a 22 x 32 plan probably wouldn't be a problem and a minor adjustment to the side setback is probably OK. Way different than the attitude I got the 1st time I spoke to them.

O happy day.

So if I have my math right, I should be able to use a 8" per foot rise on the roof with 10' sidewalls on a 22' wide garage? Hardly an upstairs but huge storage, and the main floor still increased from 600 sf to 704.

But then as you mention Jim I wouldn't be able to use a lift down the road? I'm having trouble picturing the lift. This is a 2 post lift? So the posts would be 10' back, or 10' back to the end of the lift? I'd kill for one, I'd definately like to have an eye on that.

Thinking about the to-be-installed-later doors, I'm thinking now that if I framed in for a double door in the back I could tell the city I was planning on adding it in the future for yard equipment access. I'm also thinking of using T-11 on the back wall instead of siding (that would be a minor varience) to make the future addition even easier.

There's a wire eating monster along with the 2x4 eating one? Maybe I should be stocking up on wiring now.

Suddenly, this bohemoth of a suburban garage is becoming clear, with it's high sidewalls and addition on the back My house is only 24 x 40, and it's got a 14' high peak. I'm picturing my appearance-sensitive wifes' reaction when it's standing there

Pete

 

[Piece-it Pete]

Sorry I disappeared, ran into some problems, lost the house

Good thing I didn't build the garage! And strangely enough I've ended up with a very nice (if small) workspace. I'm in an apartment (boo hiss) and don't have a garage at all, but do have a 10 x 10 storage space (really 9'8" sq) that is almost exclusively mine (vs 'ours' with the SO ).

I've been working hard to convert it into a very useful area. It's got a 16 foot ceiling so I put a 30"d x 8' x 8' pallet rack up with two shelves across the back wall, nice pallets cut to fit the notches on the top shelf, then the bottom shelf at around 40" high.

I had old 8' and 10' all oak skids, I dismantled them (oof! hard work) and used the warped 2-1/4" x 3-1/4" 'actual' runners off the 8' for lower shelf crossmembers, notched them and fit them into the shelf. I originally was going to go 2' on center.

I'm going to use the left 1/2 of the lower shelf for storage and the right 1/2 as a work bench, I thought well I should make the right side stronger. So instead of 24" on C I went 16 on C which added another oak crossmember. Then I had some remains of regular cut down skids with clean 2x4 pieces and thought heck I'll put those between the oak ones all the way across (the stringers were designed for 2 x 4s so I didn't have to notch them). Topped it with 3/4 particle board.

So across the 8 foot I've got 6 of the big oak crossmembers and 5 of the 2x4s with it heavy on the right side I've got an old dead blow hammer at least 3 lbs (I think 4) and I can smack that sucker hard with no issues, heck no vibration. Over 44% of the particle board area on the work bench side has heavy support under it!

So ONE shelving unit with two shelves fits: 6 large storage containers (12" h x 16?" wide? - guessing about width) under the shelf (on skids and with a space on top), 6 large storage containers on the middle shelf, easily 15+ on the top. And that's with half the lower shelf and the floor under it open for use as a workbench. I have the top shelf at close to 8' but could come down quite a bit if the ceiling was say 8', I could probably leave 2' space and still use the lower as a bench so 10 would still fit.

Plus I can break the shelves down, and reassemble at will. I really like the pallet racks. I doubt I could build anything that strong.

Sorry about the long wind on a small space Next up my HF 44" and the coming 2' x 4' stainless shelves

Pete