New Garage Construction Screw-Ups - long post

[homeputter]

My 24'x24' garage is almost done, but there were a lot of tense moments along the way. Fortunately, I had a great contractor.
First, I complained that the re-inforcement bars were laying on the ground and did not have chairs under them before the pour. "Oh, they lift those up while pouring the concrete." I watched while the workers tried to lift the bars up and then the guy leveling the concrete would walk over that area and push them back down. I told the contractor those bars are now laying on the ground. He said " Do you want me to tell them to go over and pull the bars up?" Like how are they going to do that while walking all over the place trying to level the concrete?! Does everyone in residential construction just lay the rebar on the ground and hope it is pulled up to the middle?

Then when the slab was poured and they RAN OUT OF CONCRETE! The contractor was trying to order another truck, but didn't know how long it would be - 45 minutes up mountain from concrete plant minumum probably a couple of hours. I told them to cancel another truck they would just have to concrete cut the rough edges later. I did not want a cold joint.

Next the roof trusses arrived and did not have the 30" overhang I specified. I told the contractor I paid for 30" overhang and that is what I wanted. Fortunately, the lead carpenter showed me if they doubled the facia boards, it would give me the 30"

I made sure when they poured the the garage apron later (and the 30 sq ft in the garage where they ran out of concrete) they had chairs under the rebar. That pour went much smoother since they workers did not have to fool around pretending to lift up the rebar.

Now the garage is almost done and the concrete looks great. The contractor did a great job of using the saw cuts to incorporate the patched area so you can't tell the area where they ran out of concrete.

The funny thing is the concrete contractor insisted on ordering the concrete the 2nd time (instead of the general contractor) and HE almost ran out. On the 6 yard pour, there was less than 1 cu ft of concrete left over. He said "well, I have been doing this for 30 years." I said "you still called that too close."

I specified that the concrete had fiber in it, 4" slump max and that plastisizers were to be used to get the slump the concrete guy wanted but no extra water was to be added.
The finished concrete slab looks really good and so far NO cracks - even hair line.

Next when the hardi-board above the garage door was installed, the seams did not line up with the hardi-board below. I called the contractor and fortunately, he said "that does not meet my standards and it will be fixed." This was 6 pm. 15 minutes later the framing company owner and the lead carpenter were having a shouting match in my driveway. I heard the lead carpenter yelling "SO THE OWNER IS ALWAYS RIGHT?!! The owner replied and "now we are yelling in front of the owner and I don't like it." They retired to the street and talked quietly for another 20 minutes. The next day the upper siding was removed and re-installed right. WHEW.

There is now only the french drains around the foundation, stem wall waterproof membrane and back filling left to do. That will happen this week.

After going through all of this, I have to say I am delighted with the final result but I had a few sleepless nights.
I will post pictures later.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Got any hair left and how is your blood pressure ?

 

[Rodhotz]

Where they ran out and cut it, did they drill and epoxy in some rebar to tie the new to?

 

[1948]

Where they ran out and cut it, did they drill and epoxy in some rebar to tie the new to?

im not sure youd want to do that would you? wouldnt you want it to be able to move a little so it doesnt crack the slabs?

 

[Daniel Dudley]

Where they ran out and cut it, did they drill and epoxy in some rebar to tie the new to?

There was already rebar. under the whole pour.

Sounds like you did OK, Homeputter.

 

[Zeke]

"I said "you still called that too close."All's well that ends well. Glad I wasn't on the crew working for you. A simple thanks would have been just right.

Pulling rebar up just before the screed works. No one walks on the screeded portion. But, around here the rebar has to be off the ground 2" or the work will not pass inspection.

Maybe this garage was built w/o inspections. In that case, one can expect a bunch of cowboys.

 

[bazzateer]

On the 6 yard pour, there was less than 1 cu ft of concrete left over. He said "well, I have been doing this for 30 years." I said "you still called that too close."

Nope, he over-ordered.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

Anyone sober? Sounds like the """"""work"""""""""" of some of the "local nail mashing good ol boys" from around here.... Drunks "training" drunks to earn some beer money..

 

[richtersrodz]

Hmm.. My house is brand new, (slab poured in November) and I have a crack in my back porch already. Not to mention the 5 or so, that are now in my driveway apron. I have to just ignore them, because I never want my builder to step foot on my property again. It was like 8 months of frustration... I don't think the guy even knew how to hang a light, and he was never on the job for longer than 20 minutes at a time. But he had a college education!!

 

[zporta]

When we pour our garages we pour a yard or two of tight concrete and scatter it. Then lift up all the rebar. The mix our concrete to the desired slump and finish our pour. I have been doing it for 10 years and always add one yard as a yield to anything over 10 yds and 1/2 for anything under. I would rather throw away $100 then wait on a truck and have a cold joint. As well as waste money on my men waiting on concrete

 

[joes169]

"I said "you still called that too close."All's well that ends well. Glad I wasn't on the crew working for you. A simple thanks would have been just right.

Pulling rebar up just before the screed works. No one walks on the screeded portion.

I agree with this completely.

As a contractor, this sounds more like a nightmare homeowner situation, rather than the opposite, but obviously I'm biased. I'm probably one of the more passive contractor's around, and certainly have been tested with my share of "challenging" customers, but I may just have passed on bidding on the project all together when you started writing your own concrete specs.........

 

[themiller]

I'm with homeputter. I was way too trusting of my concrete guy of "30+ years" who did an OK job, but not one I was happy with. Poor finish, pocks, cracks, not enough compacting in certain areas - all things I asked about and were told they'd "be ok". He did get the major structural things right (footers, rebar, drainage, etc.).

If I would have put my foot down more the (now) problems that I had a nasty feeling about at the time, probably wouldn't have occurred. But to a contractor - it's just a job and then they move on. I have to look at it every day. I like to think that people are good at what they do, especially when they only do one simple thing in the world - I have learned twice now that premise is not always true. It was a good reminder to me of why I sometimes do things myself.

The guys that did the building and electrical - they did a spectacular job. Very good at what they did. All the little details, even the ones not visible on the back of the garage until I climbed up on a ladder to inspect - 100%. Very happy.

Oh well, 5 or 6 years here then on to the next house... hopefully the concrete lasts that long without falling apart...

 

[ConCretin]

I specified that the concrete had fiber in it, 4" slump max and that plastisizers were to be used to get the slump the concrete guy wanted but no extra water was to be added.

I'm probably one of the more passive contractor's around, and certainly have been tested with my share of "challenging" customers, but I may just have passed on bidding on the project all together when you started writing your own concrete specs.........

With all due respect Homeputter, I'm with Joes169. Your concrete 'spec' doesn't make a lot of sense. With a superplastizer, you generally start with a low initial slump (2-3") and end up with a 7-8" slump. Not sure where your 4" fits in. Instead of worrying about "extra" water, you should be concerned with the total amount of water in the mix relative to the cement.

 

[Zeke]

themiller, I agree. A lot of sub contractors don't realize that it's the same ol', same ol' for them, but it's your baby. I've tried to keep that perspective for 40 years now. But, now that retirement by recession is a reality for me, I'm glad to get away from homeowners. Especially today's homeowners.

But, I agree with joes169 even more. And you know, through the long and short of it, no one can get along with everyone. If we could just figure that out before signing the dotted line, things would be much better.

My dad use to say, "Never take any job when you're hungry." Lot of meaning there as with many things he said.

 

[yucholian]

Try managing a 3500 square foot house, 1800 square foot basement, and 1600 square foot garage by yourself while working at the "normal" job during the day. Those were the longest 5 months in long time.

 

[joes169]

With all due respect Homeputter, I'm with Joes169. Your concrete 'spec' doesn't make a lot of sense. With a superplastizer, you generally start with a low initial slump (2-3") and end up with a 7-8" slump. Not sure where your 4" fits in. Instead of worrying about "extra" water, you should be concerned with the total amount of water in the mix relative to the cement.

I was actually thinking a little more simplistically than yourself, although I agree that your logic makes more sense, albeit it's really could still be considered overkill on a residential floor.

My point was really that, as a homeowner, you need to be diligent and be assured that you have hired a competent contractor (with equally competent subs) on the front end. Generally speaking most homeowners know just enough about the specifics to make themselves dangerous, although there are others that certainly do fine work on their own. Trying to micro-manage construction crews rarely bodes well for the HO, and simply adds more unnecessary angst into the entire project. Spec-ing a concrete slump w/o the training or equipment to actually have the ability test teh slump yourself would fall into the category of "micro-managing"........

For the best results, look long & hard for a competant contractor and pick their brain on how THEY do things, and then decide if it will meet your own standards. Attempting to re-train an established contractor's process and set of standards will rarely work out well for anyone...............

 

[K'ledgeBldr]

What I "hear" is a hand-shake job, no inspections, no regard to current code, lack of communication, and lack of understanding.
In other words, it was bound to have mis-steps.

 

[green.bubbly]

This is one of the problems home owners have when dealing with a contractor. Most home owners do not even know what questions to ask or concerns to raise until it is too late. Trying to get a contractor to repour a slab are start framing all over will seldom happen.

A good contractor will go out of his way to explain and educate his client before any work starts. This will prevent most conflicts as the job progresses.

 

[ConCretin]

There are only two ways for a homeowner to deal successfully with a building project.

The first is to hire a designer, prepare detailed plans and specifications, sign a contract and hold the contractor accountable.

The second is to hire a reputable and skilled contractor that doesn't need babysitting.

Neither is easy, guaranteed or cheap but anything less is taking a big chance with your investment

 

[ConCretin]

For the best results, look long & hard for a competant contractor and pick their brain on how THEY do things, and then decide if it will meet your own standards. Attempting to re-train an established contractor's process and set of standards will rarely work out well for anyone...............

Joes169, great points in your last post. By the way, I re-read my last post and thought it was unnecessarily negative. Sorry bout that. Must have been in a bad mood and posted on your thread instead of kicking the dog.

 

[Gary S]

It sounds like a lot of frustration for both you and the contractor. Glad it all worked out in the end.

I was my own contractor and builder and I had far less frustration than you did. I ran short on concrete too, but the concrete supplier got me another truck there in about 20 minutes or less.

After reading your post, I'll keep doing all my own work in the future.

 

[homeputter]

What I "hear" is a hand-shake job, no inspections, no regard to current code, lack of communication, and lack of understanding.
In other words, it was bound to have mis-steps.

 

[homeputter]

E=K'ledgeBldr;2498729]What I "hear" is a hand-shake job, no inspections, no regard to current code, lack of communication, and lack of understanding.
In other words, it was bound to have mis-steps.[/QUOTE]

I did not mean to give the impression this was a "handshake" job. Actually, I wrote a detailed specification and made detailed preliminary drawings in AutoCad. I had a designer revise the drawings in a form acceptable to the County Building Department. The plans had small changes required by the County. Of course, everything was build to code. There was a detailed construction contract signed by the contractor and myself. I sat down with the contractor and went over the plans in detail before I awarded the job to him to minimize any misunderstanding or "lack of communication."

I have no regrets in specifying the concrete. I get nervous when talking to the contractor in prelim talks and he says "well, concrete cracks".
Yes, and many times those concrete cracks could have been prevented by proper construction techniques or specifications. So, I did some research and talked to 2 concrete suppliers to see what they recommended. I followed their advice and so far, NO cracks. The concrete contractor had no problem with what was ordered and did a beautiful job of pouring and finishing.

Yeah, the contractor probably thought I was a pita, BUT, I caught 3 or 4 mistakes or things he missed on the plans that would not have been caught or corrected if I was not there.
The general contractor and I are still on good terms. In fact, I have asked him for a bid on doing some more work for me. I told him I was pleased with the way the garage turned out and would be glad to give him a recommendation.

 

[Whopper]

There are only two ways for a homeowner to deal successfully with a building project.

The first is to hire a designer, prepare detailed plans and specifications, sign a contract and hold the contractor accountable.

The second is to hire a reputable and skilled contractor that doesn't need babysitting.

Neither is easy, guaranteed or cheap but anything less is taking a big chance with your investment

This is a continuation of what I was asking about in your thread, LLWillysFan. I think the hardest part will be finding a good contractor, not knowing a good contractor from a good talker. While I sure don't want to throw money away, I'm old enough to have finally realized that quality costs. I swear, I'll be willing to pay for the time the to have a long sit down with anybody bidding on the job! And then they can add a PITA Owner surcharge if necessary.

Of course, if you decide to start working in Texas.....

 

[mrodeif]

Has anyone stopped to wonder why rebar is suppose to be so important to use in a garage slab, yet is rarely used, if ever, when pouring concrete driveways?

If the area for the concrete slab is properly prepared whether it needs to be compacted or is suitable "as is"..... and the proper thickness is poured at a minimum consistent thickness then the need there's no more need for rebar inside the garage than is used outside leading up to it.

 

[JakeKohl]

I've got a friend that builds high dollar houses in an area where there are no inspectors or inspections. He is incredibly reputable and takes great care in his work. Often, he'll have clients (many from out of town) that have been shopping around and he likes to ask them if the other builders mentioned that there are no inspections in this county (of course they didn't)...he then offers some advice to pick their builder very carefully.

 

[theoldwizard1]

"Back from the Dead" !

My son had he roof replaced a couple of years ago. Nothing to fancy, but there were a few "upgrades" he wanted (decking completely replaced with 1/2" OSB, all new insulation above the cathedral ceiling, etc). The owner agreed to all of it, but we actually wrote an addendum to the contract that he signed.

I was there when the delivery truck was there and I told them not to bother unloading the 7/16 OSB. When the foreman showed up, I handed him a copy of the addendum, which he read carefully. I was also wearing a digital camera around my neck. During the installation, I made it a point of being seen taking pictures, including climbing partially up the ladder to take more.

The job went perfect except for the foot through the ceiling !

 

[pmiranda]

Has anyone stopped to wonder why rebar is suppose to be so important to use in a garage slab, yet is rarely used, if ever, when pouring concrete driveways?

My thinking is that if a driveway cracks and shifts, it's still just a driveway, but if a garage slab that's holding up a lift and walls and roof moves, you can have a very bad day. Of course, I live in an area where there is alot of expansive soil/clay and it seems to be cheaper and easier to drop in some rebar than to excavate several feet. But I don't really know alot about this so I could be very wrong.

 

[bygasper]

Ohhh my. Why is it so hard to find good workmanship? Common sense is just not so common. I went through a similar hell last fall and winter with my build.

 

[Kels]

hey at least your contractor talked to you! lol