New Garage Door Dripping Rain!!

[Rustito]

Just had a single car garage built onto my home and had a new metal high-end Amarr door and belt Liftmaster opener installed by a garage door company. The door has long panels and 2 top windows with snap-in plastic insert called Arched Thames for a arched shaped pane look. Not much of an overhang over garage door.

So it rains - not too heavy with slight wind. The later that day hours after rain stopped and everything seemed dry I open the new door and drops of water fall on my car trunk and top. I look up and the window on one side looks wet and it seemed like water was dripping from slats between panels but I really don't recall. Waiting for another rain to look more closely at exactly where drops are coming from - if it drips again.

Has anyone else had this problem or have any thoughts about whether this is normal or what is happening?? I read online of someone with an Amarr door with windows on top having problems with rain getting into interior of the door through unsealed window panes and then dripping out from joints or hardware with door was opened. But I don't want to jump to conclusions about what is happening with my door.

Thanks for any help.

 

[larry_g]

I have water wick into the joints between the door panels that will drip out when the door is up. I consider it part of the nature of the beast.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[Rustito]

Thanks Larry - My builder said his garage door never drips which is why I wondered if this were normal. Still have concern that water seemed to be coming from the top window when the door was up. I think it might be seeping under the snap-in framing for the window and this is holding in water. I like the look of the door but not sure I like the dripping if this is the nature of the beast! Even though only a few drops I guess I am in still in the phase where I want everything about the new garage "perfect" and this was the very last thing and is driving me nuts!

 

[Greatbear]

Waxing the doors can help a bit with this. The water will roll off the surface easier, but some of the wicking will still happen, albeit less.

 

[jstroede]

Take a picture of the windows for me, inside and out. If I see the windows, I can probably advise you on how to fix them.

John

 

[Rustito]

John - I will take pics of the windows tomorrow during the daylight. Obviously you won't see any water bacause the rain was a few days ago - so I assume you can assertain what to do just by seeing pics of the windows not dripping. Is it possible that the windows are the problem and water is getting inside the door if they are not properly sealed? I am thinking perhaps this might be the good news if sealing them is easy and will fix the problem. I just can't imagine that most garage doors do this (other than is a driving rain with serious winds blowing up against the garage door). This was a top of the line door and very spiff so should not be doing this - or so I thought.

Thanks Greatbear for also responding. I have been obsessing about this for 2 days now instead of enjoying the fact that my new garage in finally finished!! It is good to get some input for people who know garages.

BTW - This is a great forum. Wish I had found it sooner. I still have lots to do to organize and furnish the interior of the garage. I will serve cross purposes.

 

[ddawg16]

Hit it with a water hose.....might be easier to see where it's getting in.

FYI....that is why I built a 2' overhang on the front of my garage....I wanted to be able to have the door open if it was raining....

 

[cowboyjosh]

What we wouldn't give for rain or snow in Arizona and Colorado; its dry, dry, dry and in Colorado been too mild for December, but I digress.

When I was installing Wayne Dalton Doors (big mistake) in my custom homes, we had numerous call backs because wind driven rain would leak like no body's business around the windows. WD probably swapped out 50 door panels with windows before we started installing CHI Doors. A couple times Wayne Dalton came to my customers house and wanted to just caulk around the windows or pull the window glass from the door panel and caulk and reinstall the glass, we always told them to "go to hell" because its supposed to be water tight from the factory.

If you have water coming in around the glass, insist on having the offending door panels replaced, many door dealers and manufacturers with the exception of Wayne Dalton go out of their way to please.

 

[jstroede]

What we wouldn't give for rain or snow in Arizona and Colorado; its dry, dry, dry and in Colorado been too mild for December, but I digress.

When I was installing Wayne Dalton Doors (big mistake) in my custom homes, we had numerous call backs because wind driven rain would leak like no body's business around the windows. WD probably swapped out 50 door panels with windows before we started installing CHI Doors. A couple times Wayne Dalton came to my customers house and wanted to just caulk around the windows or pull the window glass from the door panel and caulk and reinstall the glass, we always told them to "go to hell" because its supposed to be water tight from the factory.

If you have water coming in around the glass, insist on having the offending door panels replaced, many door dealers and manufacturers with the exception of Wayne Dalton go out of their way to please.

I will give a little insight here. I have worked in the garage door industry for 10 years now, and I can give a few details. First of all, I can't say all 100%, but most garage door manufacturers do not make their own windows. There are a few companies that make windows and sell them to manufacturers and dealers. Dealers you say? Yes, many dealers and/or wholesalers install their own windows, so your windows may or may not have been factory installed. Now, you say that they are supposed to be water tight from the factory. Well, most garage door windows are NOT sealed units and most manufacturers do not make the claim of them being water tight. They fit tightly, but there is no sealant applied to the frame or the door. That being said, my experience shows that some brands and styles of window frames fit and seal better than others, and some may leak just because of a slight misalignment during manufacturing. You stated that caulking the windows was not acceptable. Well, in most cases, I would say that is your best and most practical solution. There are window frames available that have a sealant installed on them and in testing, you can set them flat completely full of water and they will not leak at all. The reason everyone doesn't use them...well...$$$$$. In most cases, there is never an issue with water leakage. I put the doors in my house 9 years ago and they have no sealant whatsoever on them, and they have never leaked, but I also have some overhang that protects them.

John

 

[cowboyjosh]

Good insight, Im not a garage door guy, besides the CHI line and the Lift Master opener lines and some basic physics on how the doors work, I know ****, we pay folks to know how to install them and repair them, so your explanation was helpful. Wayne Daltons I was told are manufactured and windows installed before shipping at their Mt. Hope, Ohio factory. I agree with the sealant, when WD pulled a couple windows on a couple panels to attempt to seal them their was a couple beads of factory caulk, the problem with the caulk in the field was the mess. You could look at the windows from the inside after WD caulked them and all you saw was this glob of mess all around the window, and on top of the mess, the windows then leaked worse then before. Our CHI Dealer told us what you did, the widows are never completely water tight, however they should not allow water to flow, and thats what happened with WD, the water would literally cascade down the inside of the door the windows leaked so bad. One issue we have had with CHI that we have never had with WD or AMARR is we have had a few panels on the 5216 Carriage House have bubbled, waved, or became delaminated; CHI has always acted like they know this can happen and replace the panels, including labor, without question.


Off topic, but I see your in KC, think KC will keep our crappy Broncos team in check today at Arrowhead?

I will give a little insight here. I have worked in the garage door industry for 10 years now, and I can give a few details. First of all, I can't say all 100%, but most garage door manufacturers do not make their own windows. There are a few companies that make windows and sell them to manufacturers and dealers. Dealers you say? Yes, many dealers and/or wholesalers install their own windows, so your windows may or may not have been factory installed. Now, you say that they are supposed to be water tight from the factory. Well, most garage door windows are NOT sealed units and most manufacturers do not make the claim of them being water tight. They fit tightly, but there is no sealant applied to the frame or the door. That being said, my experience shows that some brands and styles of window frames fit and seal better than others, and some may leak just because of a slight misalignment during manufacturing. You stated that caulking the windows was not acceptable. Well, in most cases, I would say that is your best and most practical solution. There are window frames available that have a sealant installed on them and in testing, you can set them flat completely full of water and they will not leak at all. The reason everyone doesn't use them...well...$$$$$. In most cases, there is never an issue with water leakage. I put the doors in my house 9 years ago and they have no sealant whatsoever on them, and they have never leaked, but I also have some overhang that protects them.

John

 

[Rustito]

Here is an outside and an inside pic of the garage door windows. It was hard to get close-ups esp. inside since sun was shining in. Sorry abt reflections!

 

[Rustito]

John - Your post was really helpful and obviously you know quite a bit and this is exactly the type of insight I was wanting. Caulking is acceptable - sorry if I was not clear on my previous post. If that fixes the problem that is great news!! Upon closer inspection when taking the pictures just now I see no seal or caulking at all around the glass - it is just set in. If sealing around the windows does the fix that would be great.

I just posted pictures. Hope you can see enough from them.

 

[jstroede]

Your pictures don't work for me.

Happy to help. I just did some testing in this area in the last couple of months, so I know a little

John

 

[Rustito]

John - If the windows are leaking should I ask the installer replace the panel or caulk the existing windows? I am not sure what my next step should be.

One other thing - I noticed that the seams between the panels are flat even for the bottom two but the top one is very slightly off, i.e., not totally flat but almost. Could any water be dripping in from the seams? I watched as the door opened and I see there is an overlap as the door opens and closes.

Appreciate your help. BTW - were the pics just not clear or close-up enough for you to see the problem? I could try again.

 

[jstroede]

That seam on the top section happens sometimes because something on the header is causing the section to tilt back just slightly. I highly doubt that is causing you any problems. Reading this again though, you never say specifically that the windows are leaking. Do you know for sure that they are leaking, or just that something within the door is leaking when you open it?

Just another question, why is your second section different? It is a short panel section, where as the third section is a long panel section.

John

 

[Rustito]

The day after the rain when I opened the door and drops fell onto the car I looked up at the inverted door and there was water dripping. I remember seeing it coming from one of the windows but I didn't inspect it carefully. Then I became more concerned when my builder said that never happens with his door. I called the installer who said that this might occur in a heavy rain with winds blowing up against the door (and I don't have much of any overhang). I didn't get into the window issue with him.

Which leads to your second question - the installer is coming back in about 2 weeks when the correct center panel arrives!! He wanted to get the door installed despite the fact that one of the panels has short raised panels and the other panels are the long raised style. Since the house is a rambler I selected the long raised panels - plus I like the look better.

 

[Rustito]

Reading the Amarr garage door warranty does not appear to cover garage door windows or water problems. Since this is my first experience with garage doors I am not sure whether this is the norm or whether typically people don't have problems with water or windows (except water under the door). Some say yes, and some say this should not be happening.

I would think that any well-known garage door maker would QA the windows - even if made by another company if they are put into their doors. Also, Amarr has those snap in inserts to make the various window configurations and you would think the design would not allow water to get trapped inside these inserts.

I am awaiting another rain to see if I can determine if it is indeed the windows. Please share experiences people have with their door after a rain when opening water dripping (or not) down onto their car - esp. if you have windows up top. It can't just be the protection of an overhang - these doors should withstand rain hitting them and not seeping into seams or windows (unless heavy duty rain and wind gusts). Also, anyone who knows anything about Amarr and this particular problem please let me know outcome.

 

[jstroede]

The day after the rain when I opened the door and drops fell onto the car I looked up at the inverted door and there was water dripping. I remember seeing it coming from one of the windows but I didn't inspect it carefully. Then I became more concerned when my builder said that never happens with his door. I called the installer who said that this might occur in a heavy rain with winds blowing up against the door (and I don't have much of any overhang). I didn't get into the window issue with him.

Which leads to your second question - the installer is coming back in about 2 weeks when the correct center panel arrives!! He wanted to get the door installed despite the fact that one of the panels has short raised panels and the other panels are the long raised style. Since the house is a rambler I selected the long raised panels - plus I like the look better.

I will say that yes, sometimes water can get down between the section joints and it will then run down and drip inside when you open the door. This will also occur when there is little or no overhang.

In most instances, I am not a big fan of the long panel style doors (we make them too) but they look good in situations like yours.

John

 

[jstroede]

Reading the Amarr garage door warranty does not appear to cover garage door windows or water problems. Since this is my first experience with garage doors I am not sure whether this is the norm or whether typically people don't have problems with water or windows (except water under the door). Some say yes, and some say this should not be happening.

I would think that any well-known garage door maker would QA the windows - even if made by another company if they are put into their doors. Also, Amarr has those snap in inserts to make the various window configurations and you would think the design would not allow water to get trapped inside these inserts.

I am awaiting another rain to see if I can determine if it is indeed the windows. Please share experiences people have with their door after a rain when opening water dripping (or not) down onto their car - esp. if you have windows up top. It can't just be the protection of an overhang - these doors should withstand rain hitting them and not seeping into seams or windows (unless heavy duty rain and wind gusts). Also, anyone who knows anything about Amarr and this particular problem please let me know outcome.

I'm not sure why you don't think the windows are not covered. Here is a section from their warranty:

"For all Amarr steel garage door models, if any DecraGlass™ window is defective in material or workmanship, Amarr will replace or repair the window that is defective for 10 years from the date of purchase to the original purchaser."

John

 

[Rustito]

I see that windows on Armarr doors are indeed covered. Still no rain here so I can't test out yet. But good to know they are covered.

 

[DARK AGE 53]

Still no rain here so I can't test out yet.

garden hose?

 

[m.james]

Extend the roof perhaps so that the rain doesn't get in.

 

[Rustito]

Hi All - Finally rain and I'm about to check things out, however, I won't want to open the door until it is dry or else the drips could be what is on the door (if it got wet). A couple of updates and thoughts on comments from people (I was away so I didn't just drop out)!!

First, My overhang is small and I can ask my builder if he can extend it, however, structurally there might be a reason the overhand isn't winder. Now, they just installed a gutter going across the top of the door opening. I am wondering if they might help.

Second - someone said the send back the window panel and make Armarr make good it that is the problem. However, if the current window panel isn't caulked a new one from them most likely won't be caulked either, right?? So if that is the problem any of their window panels will have the same problem unless they will caulk for me or the installer will or my builder will caulk the windows. But that will probably invalidate the warranty - but if it fixes the problem then why not??

I am heading out now to go in the back door of the garage and inspect the inside of the door and then the outside. But think I should wait to open the door until it is dry otherwise it might just drip water running off the wet panels. There is not wind and this is a light rain.

 

[Torque1st]

Use a hose from outside to sprinkle "rain" on the door.

Almost any door will leak if you use a nozzle to spray directly at the joints.

 

[Rustito]

The door is entirely dry - rain not hard and no wind so I will use a hose. But I can see an issue with the way the Amarr window designs are done. There are solid windows and then plastic snap in pieces that hold the different designs, e.g., to make one long window into 2. These snap in pieces do not fit tight and if I direct even a light sprinkle from above there is no question water will get behind the piece. Now eventually I suppose it will dry out but if the glass pane is not caulked the sitting water will most likely seep in. Even with caulk if there is sitting water that doesn't evaporate because it is "contained" under the snap in piece that will ultimately cause damage.

These snap in pieces are how Amarr does their windows so I assume they assume people have overhangs so it is rare that water gets in the snap in pieces??? This is very poor and I actually read on the internet someone else who had the same problem with Amarr. So if I want Amarr door I might be stuck with this design flaw.

Now my concern is will I have to pay for labor if I have the panel replaced or the entire door if I go with another brand? Can someone recommend another brand that won't have these issues or should I work with what I have to minimize the problem? I suppose one could seal off the snap insert but who wants to have to do this stuff with a new door. I am going to call Amarr tomorrow and see what I can find out about the design of these windows.

 

[jstroede]

The way the window is done with the insert is how EVERYONE does their windows. In fact most companies' windows are made by one of two or three different suppliers, and the same with those design inserts. Even if you do not have the inserts, there is still the channel there for it to fit into.

John

 

[84bimmer]

I used to install these windows in these AMARR garage doors at the factory. There really isn't much at all there for weather proofing. Basically just caulk in there. And for there to be some bad glue, was never that uncommon. Not to mention the lady that runs this machine is narcoleptic. LOL! NO BS! Falls asleep standing up with glass panes in her hand. True story. I honestly would recommend you just pull the window out and reseal it with something good. Let me know if you have any other questions pertaining to the design of that setup.