New garage - very dissapointed!!!

[Tempest 455]

I had a crack problem that I posted before in another thread. I thought they took care of the problem, but it appears it was the tip of the iceberg.

It's been so cold, I did not spend anytime in the garage over the winter. Since it warmed up some, they came and fixed the crack. I thought that was it. I started rolling stuff around and felt my dolly run over a hump and started to look things over and it appears I have some MAJOR problems.

To me looks like the entire foundation is compromised and part of the slab is sinking. The back was is not close to plumb. Again, did not notice these things because I have not even been behind the garage since it was winter.

I have documented it well w/ pictures and sent to the builder. I have a 1 year "warranty" and will see what they come back with. The worst part is, I built this last year and still cannot use it for what I planned now.

Feel like I flushed a bunch of money down the crapper.

This garage was completed in Oct of 2013. The walls were plumb and everything was fine when it was built.

Would love to hear some opinions on recourse here. This is a nightmare!

 

[hoffman912]

i would politely and pleasantly and calmly call the contractor, or contact at the company who built it, and tell them that you have some concerns about the stability of the building and the foundation, and invite them over to look at it. calm and cool wins the game.

when they come over have them look at it, ask if they have any ideas what may have happened and what they need to do to fix it, and how soon they can fix it. Let them know any concerns you may have over the stability and any concerns you may have of a fix. I would be concerned that the best course of action is to tear down and start over with a good foundation, but i have no idea.. i am not a contractor or an engineer, i just know how to work with people. but i do know foundation is not cheap to fix.

so get your people in line to look at it, assess and come up with a permanent solution to fix it. if they balk, tell them this is major structural issues and remind them of the warranty you have. go with them, play nice as long as you can. if they are willing to work, keep cool. if they offer a solution thats not to your satisfaction, enlist the help of a structural engineer to assess and and present the company with those findings (may cost you out of pocket but better than not to make sure its done right, and in the end i bet you can get them to pay you back for that).

start taking photos now, and date stamp them. document document document. get all ducks in a row in case there is a legal mess, but dont go pushing for a legal mess or be on the defensive out the gate. again calm and cool wins. you can be a **** later if they refuse to do anything, and your photos, paperwork and everything lined up, along with the backing of a structural engineer's assessment will only go to help you in the end.

there may be other solutions than a structural engineer.. not sure if a building inspector (city, private etc) may be a good substitute or not.. but get an expert either way.

lastly, again be cool and calm. you will get more flies with honey than vinnegar. dont threaten anything unless there is no other recourse and all other options have been exhausted. get some names of some lawyers just in case, and reach out to them for assistance should you not make any head way.. again that would be the last recourse

 

[Holt]

Have you called the builder back yet? Looks like there going to have to mud jack the back side of your garage.

 

[mygarageone]

Did they pull a permit , get an inspection ?

Some states hold the builder responsible for the problems you are having , I would look into it.

 

[Moose97]

Was the foundation designed by an engineer. If so the foundation plans will be stamped with the engineers state seal. Contact him. He needs to be in on the "fix" along with the builder. He needs to come to the site to see the problems. His repair needs to be on paper and stamped as well. Make sure they permit the fix too.

 

[Tempest 455]

Did they pull a permit , get an inspection ?

Some states hold the builder responsible for the problems you are having , I would look into it.

Yes they pulled a permit. I don't recall any inspection.

 

[Tempest 455]

Yes they pulled a permit. I don't recall any inspection.

Was the foundation designed by an engineer. If so the foundation plans will be stamped with the engineers state seal. Contact him. He needs to be in on the "fix" along with the builder. He needs to come to the site to see the problems. His repair needs to be on paper and stamped as well. Make sure they permit the fix too.

Foundation was done by a concrete contractor. If there was plans, I never saw any. Builder said it was his best concrete guys.

 

[Ross/Kzoo]

Builder said it was his best concrete guys.

Would he say otherwise? What state is this located.

 

[Nephronracing]

I'd call the inspector and a second contractor and get an opinion. Give your contractor the opportunity to make it right but get that second opinion to make sure he's BS'ing you for his fix. And as Hoffman912 said, document, document, document…everything, every phone call, date, time, who you talked to, topic, etc.

Good luck

 

[Bib Overalls]

My gut feeling is that the garage was built on fill that was not properly compacted. Agree with the others on documenting the problem with good, date stamped photographs. Any conversations with the contractor should be documented with a memo for the record made immediately after.

 

[Richard Cranium]

I would be very disappointed also, and I agree with overall's on it being on fill and now is compacting...

 

[ConCretin]

I think my post in your other thread said that I saw signs of movement or settlement. It seems you are finding more of the same. First off, let me say that I'm sorry you are having to deal with this.

Hopefully your contractor is a stand up guy and takes care of this but these things tend to be complicated and expensive. Your agreement, local codes and regulations will have a lot to do with the potential remedy and how much it costs you to achieve it.

Keep in mind that this may not be the fault of the concrete guy. It could be poor workmanship by the excavation contractor, existing soil or water conditions, etc.. See how this can get complicated?

Talk to your contractor in a reasonable manner and see what he's willing to do. If it doesn't seem like he's willing to step up, talk to a lawyer. For what it's worth, you can probably deal with the deficiencies and end up with a serviceable garage if neither of these strategies works out.

 

[Glory]

My gut feeling is that the garage was built on fill that was not properly compacted. Agree with the others on documenting the problem with good, date stamped photographs. Any conversations with the contractor should be documented with a memo for the record made immediately after.

This ^

If the sub grade (typically the native soil or sometimes imported gravel) and/or base aggregate is not properly compacted, it can result in the foundation footing and/or slab settling.

Ask the contractor who prepared the aggregate base, who was the material testing lab who tested the compaction of the material. The engineer who stamped the drawings should have included specification requirements for the aggregate base that was installed to support the footing/slab. If it states so minimum compaction must 90% relative density then the it's the responsibility of the contractor to assure it meets this specification after compaction activities are completed. FYI typical structural footings require minimum 95% relative density.

If there was a permit, then the density testing report should be a part of the permit process.

If it's the contractors deficiency then utilize an attorney, the contractor has insurance for issues such as these.

If it turns out to be a engineering deficiency, then the engineer holds E&O insurance and you can pursue that avenue.

Hope it all works out for you.

 

[Tempest 455]

Thanks for the feedback. Here are some more angles to provide and idea of the size/height of the foundation. The back wall is 5ft.

I have contacted the builder and will post the response.

 

[brownbagg]

you got a settlement problem, a foundation failure, uncompacted sub soil

 

[Tempest 455]

I took pics every day they worked including the footers. I wonder if the started too soon after footers were poured.

 

[Bruce4310TX]

Wonder if there is any rebar in there,,,,,,,hopefully not the magic do all wonder fiber mesh.

 

[Tempest 455]

This is all I have as far as pics of the progress. I would come home from work and take a pic of that day. Here was the first couple days.

 

[zporta]

i agree with radrush and his #2 theory. That looks like to much backfill for an 8" block. Should have stepped up to a larger block and had some cells poured solid with rebar connecting to the footing.

 

[Eriehunter]

Looks to me like your footer isn't deep enough to get below frost line, the inside of the building is fill. With the colder than expected winter we had the "fill" inside the garage under the floor along the back/side walls froze and pushed the back/side wall out. hence the large crack. The footer should have been deeper, there should have been rebar pins drilled into the footer and rebar run vertically inside the block, then grouted. with the amount/ depth of fill inside the walls that still may not have stopped it with the extreme temps we have had. I see you are in Columbus and I'm in Erie, Pa and in that 3 hour driving distance there is an extreme difference in usual winter temps. Your builders in that area may not be use to seeing what a hard freeze can do.

You have in essence built a reverse basement (dirt on the inside) the fill would have to be extra dry and gravel. and that still may not have stopped it. On that build for sure you needed engineering supervision (which I am not) but I have worked on buildings similar to this design.

Good luck

Bryan

They may be able to shore/ jack the wall on the outside, repair cracked foundation, remove shoring, then truck some clean fill in around the outside and grade the area to prevent this from happening again.

 

[Doc]

Every contractor of every professin can have problems on any job site. what makes them good is how they respond to the problem. Need to give him 1st chance to review and make it right, whatever that should be.

had a driveway poured once that never cured completely. drove my chevy cavalier on it after 2 weeks of not even walking on it. it cracked lake a piece of plate glass. I called him him and he said it should support a pickup. I invited him over and he drove right up on it and it collapsed. He just about needed 4wd to get out. without hesitation, he ripped every drop of the driveway. 12' x50' and re poured. He didnt balk or even blink an eye. I will use him again if given the opportunity.

Good Luck and do feel bad about your setback. Nice looking property!

 

[W0rLDWaR4]

That's disappointing to see. Hopefully everything gets figured/fixed out for you. It looks like the subsoil wasn't compacted but that's just my opinion (and agreement to others above).

 

[Playwme]

Fill the day after finishing the block wall? Thats not giving the mortar much time to cure. Reminds me of that other GJ member who found his retaining wall lying on the ground the day after fill.

 

[zporta]

Actually if was my wall, I'd have used 12" block with 2#5 verts at 16" OC. and bond-beams with 2 # 6 every other course and I'd have grouted the whole thing solid. Some would call that overkill; I'd call that perfection.

BINGO, I would have used 12" Block. Or at least filled the 8" wall solid with rebar every few cores

 

[p_mori7]

The back walll was a failure waiting to happen. It's trying to be a retaining wall, but isn't strong enough to do the job.

 

[bczygan]

Like another thread, this is a blowout waiting to happen.

It isn't properly designed, or constructed.

It needs to be jacked up and have the foundation reinforced, at the very least.

I doubt that the fill was properly compacted, because if it was, the back wall would have blown out.

These aren't professionals.

Did they submit a cash bond or insurance to cover their work? I doubt it.

Just jack leg work all around. They probably don't have a clue, about all the things they failed to do.

You probably paid them in full as well...

 

[ConCretin]

That last set of photos makes the problem a lot more obvious but sure as hell didn't do much to simplify the solution.

I agree with those who believe the problem rests with an inadequately designed and/or constructed CMU foundation, which is acting as a retaining wall. The fill behind the wall could also be paying a part. If the fill material froze or lacked stability, it could impart unanticipated loads on the wall.

The first challenge is going to be determining responsibility, which is going to be more difficult due to the cost of fixing the problem. Expect a lot of figure pointing and some legal bills.

The next question is, how do you fix it? I can think of a couple ways to stabilize what's there and 'repair' the damage but it won't ever be the same. Tearing it all down and starting over would obviously cost a fortune. If the responsible party can be determined, it's unlikely they have the financial means to accomplish this.

Dammit, this *****. Sorry, man. Wish I could help.

 

[Tempest 455]

Looks to me like your footer isn't deep enough to get below frost line, the inside of the building is fill. With the colder than expected winter we had the "fill" inside the garage under the floor along the back/side walls froze and pushed the back/side wall out. hence the large crack. The footer should have been deeper, there should have been rebar pins drilled into the footer and rebar run vertically inside the block, then grouted. with the amount/ depth of fill inside the walls that still may not have stopped it with the extreme temps we have had. I see you are in Columbus and I'm in Erie, Pa and in that 3 hour driving distance there is an extreme difference in usual winter temps. Your builders in that area may not be use to seeing what a hard freeze can do.

You have in essence built a reverse basement (dirt on the inside) the fill would have to be extra dry and gravel. and that still may not have stopped it. On that build for sure you needed engineering supervision (which I am not) but I have worked on buildings similar to this design.

Good luck

Bryan

They may be able to shore/ jack the wall on the outside, repair cracked foundation, remove shoring, then truck some clean fill in around the outside and grade the area to prevent this from happening again.

I'm in Nashville and yes it was unusually cold here.

Thanks for the comments/suggestions. I have not received a response yet (been two days). Maybe they are trying to get ducks in a row. I will wait one more day and take it up a notch.

 

[12ozd]

Looks like water runs down the hill under the slab.
With the slab falling and the wall pushing out, could easily be water.
I would check there first.

 

[bushmechanic]

I'd have those buggers tear it down and haul it off, cost be damned.

A structure like that is meant to last for decades, and that one has already failed. It's not slightly defective. It's failed. There's no sense screwing around in attempts to postpone the inevitable with a few half-assed country tricks.

You've been screwed, whether by design or accident. I'm leaning toward design.

I'd give them a chance to come clean and haul it off, naturally, but if nothing worked out I'd have a lawyer on their tails. Somebody signed a contract with you.

Let them sort out who's at fault among their various associations later.

Of course, this is the internet, and you shouldn't take my advice.

 

[48fordnut]

L ots of good advice.

 

[Tempest 455]

Think considering the magnitude of the problem, I should start discussing w/ an attorney to just get my ducks in a row? My gut tells me that's where it's headed anyway.

I'm thinking of having a foundation company come out and give a professional opinion so I can have another opinion on what they want to do. I have sorted and printed off many of these suggestions so I'm prepared when they come out. However, it's been 2 days I they have not responded.

I appreciate all the comments. Please only constructive comments, no bashing.

Thanks.

 

[John in OH]

Holy Cow! What a bummer! Ya sure got my sympathy on this mess. I'm not a concrete guy, but it sure looks as if Radrush and others are correct about the weak block wall design and the backfill problems.

Not to add to your discouragement, but I'll also bet that most of the spoil from the excavation of your house basement got spread over this area so the footers may be sitting on fill or at least not installed to the depth of solid subsoil. So, I'd be concerned about the integrity of the footers as well as the poor block wall design. Make sure you discuss this possibility with whoever you hire as a technical adviser.

 

[Nighttrain]

I hate to see this. Sure hope the contractor backs up his work. Don't settle for bandaid type repairs. Also if it is just repaired get an extended warranty on the foundation. All concrete cracks but not like yours, which is shifting.

 

[gball]

I'm with bushmechanic. Your situation makes me feel like my cracked floor is spilled milk...

 

[1grnlwn]

This may be an apples and oranges comparison, but my basement poured wall , I was not allowed to backfill for 2 weeks and until they had a floor structure in place. My guess is if they had compacted the inside fill properly the walls would have blown out that day. JMHO. Sorry this has happened. Check with entity you got the permit through, they may take the lead with the contractor. Garage may not be as strict as house.

 

[J king]

Terrible spot you are in.I would get a lawyer.Judging from how this was built it was a small time builder.I am guessing that the topsoil and sod weren't even removed .Looks like the little bit they dug out for the footer was just dumped on top of unprepared surface. It needs knocked down and rebuilt.No joke..

 

[excavator]

8 inch block and no pilasters is a no no with that slope of grade. Too much weight on the walls and my guess is they compacted it too much with no support (fill dirt) on outside. 12 inch block would have been much better or at least vertical rebar every 4 feet and fill blocks with concrete to be a retaining wall. I am a excavating contractor and see this way too often. The engineer might think it looks good on flat peice of priperty but not with that severe slope and no backfill on lower walls

 

[woodrail]

Possible solution? Construct a secondary retaining/foundation wall of block 48" around the perimeter of the original, after jacking old wall into plumb (if possible), tie the two wall together every 4 feet with block. This system would effectively create a 4 foot wide foundation wall.

This will not be cheap, but would probably be the quickest and easiest.

Short of this, you may also consider constructing buttresses either continuous or every 4 feet or so.

 

[gball]

It just seams to me that rebar and some filled/tied cores is even beginner common sense. I did my footings and block myself, never did any block work before or even watched it being done. about 5 minutes looking online is all it takes to learn there should be rebar and the footings look like they are just below the sod. it's like they thought the footings, block, and floor would just act like a floating slab...