New GFCI outlet tripping

[Brian_WK]

I was switching out some old outlets to new and had a extra GFCI outlet and figured what the heck and used it for the first branch on a circuit that controls 3 other outlets as well as one light. As I was wiring it up (hot because that how I roll) I hooked up the branch hot and neutral and then the ground then lastly the Supply hot. Second I touched the hot to its connection it tripped. I thought that's odd and continued to wire it in and tighten down the screw. Thinking maybe it was just because of wiring it up hot it caused it to trip.

I tried pushing the reset just buzzed and would not reset. So I disconnected the branch hot. Still no reset. Disconnected the branch neutral and it reset. I so then got out the meter and tested- Branch hot wire to Ground- Open (no conductivity).... Neutral to ground - 0 Ohms.... Neutral to Hot Open... there as nothing plugged into the outlets and the light switch was off. The neutral to ground 0 ohms is beauce in my panel the neutrals and ground bars are the same. BUt this has had no effect on any other GFCI outlet in my house (5 Specifically)

So I said screw it and put a normal outlet back in and put the amp clamp on it and no current running through either the Hot or Neutral. No voltage difference between neutral and ground either. I'm leaving towards a bad new GFCI but not sure why it would be fine without the branch circuit hooked up.

Anyone have any ideas?

Brian

 

[madison069]

100% sure it's wired correctly? If you wire it to the wrong set of screws on the gfci it will trip prematurely. I learned this the hard way.

 

[JimDon]

You probably cooked your GFCI. There are some electronic components to a GFCI that detect the current imbalance. Wiring it hot can cook those in a nanosecond. It is a common mistake. Dimmer switches are another component that are easy to cook if you wire them hot. No offense meant, but wiring anything hot is a really, really bad idea. 120 v can and will kill you if you happen to experience an arm to arm or arm to solid ground path. If you take it arm to arm and are grasping the devices, your muscles will spasm and you will NOT be able to let go and a GFCI circuit protecting you may be the only escape plan available.
Jim Don

 

[American Locomotive]

Okay just to clarify, you're stating "supply" as the wires coming from your breaker panel, right? And "Branch" as the wire going to the other outlets and the light?

 

[Brian_WK]

100% sure it's wired correctly? If you wire it to the wrong set of screws on the gfci it will trip prematurely. I learned this the hard way.

101% sure.

You probably cooked your GFCI. There are some electronic components to a GFCI that detect the current imbalance. Wiring it hot can cook those in a nanosecond. It is a common mistake. Dimmer switches are another component that are easy to cook if you wire them hot. No offense meant, but wiring anything hot is a really, really bad idea. 120 v can and will kill you if you happen to experience an arm to arm or arm to solid ground path. If you take it arm to arm and are grasping the devices, your muscles will spasm and you will NOT be able to let go and a GFCI circuit protecting you may be the only escape plan available.
Jim Don

anyways this is all stuff I learned in my electrical theory class and Labs.
If cooked I can't think of why it would still work fine without the Load circuits connected.

Okay just to clarify, you're stating "supply" as the wires coming from your breaker panel, right? And "Branch" as the wire going to the other outlets and the light?

Sorry Line (supply) Load (branch)

Brian

 

[PoorOwner]

there should not be 0 ohms downstream with the neutral and ground.. if they are touching then the GFCI would trip..

symptoms is that it would work with regular outlet but not GFCI.. GFCI works with the supply but would not reset when downstream hooked up..

take the recept off the next one downsteam (wires open to air) and check the ohm again.. we have the same problem at the house.. thinks something pinched the wire between ground and neutral. Once you found the faulty section you can put a section of romex externally between the 2 receptacle and verify everything works.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I was switching out some old outlets to new and had a extra GFCI outlet and figured what the heck and used it for the first branch on a circuit that controls 3 other outlets as well as one light. As I was wiring it up (hot because that how I roll) I hooked up the branch hot and neutral and then the ground then lastly the Supply hot. Second I touched the hot to its connection it tripped. I thought that's odd and continued to wire it in and tighten down the screw. Thinking maybe it was just because of wiring it up hot it caused it to trip.

I tried pushing the reset just buzzed and would not reset. So I disconnected the branch hot. Still no reset. Disconnected the branch neutral and it reset. I so then got out the meter and tested- Branch hot wire to Ground- Open (no conductivity).... Neutral to ground - 0 Ohms.... Neutral to Hot Open... there as nothing plugged into the outlets and the light switch was off. The neutral to ground 0 ohms is because in my panel the neutrals and ground bars are the same. But this has had no effect on any other GFCI outlet in my house (5 Specifically)

So I said screw it and put a normal outlet back in and put the amp clamp on it and no current running through either the Hot or Neutral. No voltage difference between neutral and ground either. I'm leaving towards a bad new GFCI but not sure why it would be fine without the branch circuit hooked up.

Anyone have any ideas?

Brian

As pointed out above, there should be no continuity between any of the branch circuit wires. The bonded neutral bar in the main will have no effect on disconnected branch circuits.

This neutral to ground continuity(0 ohms is dead short) is the reason for the GFCI tripping.

How many outlets are downstream of the GFCI?

U need to open each box one by one and see if there is any connection between neutral and ground.

*Start by turning the breaker off(NEVER work hot)
*Take the first downstream outlet out of the j box, remove the downstream wires from the outlet(the ones NOT coming from the GFCI) and then test for continuity between neutral and ground. If no continuity, then move onto the next outlet. Repeat til u find the issue...

You probably cooked your GFCI. There are some electronic components to a GFCI that detect the current imbalance. Wiring it hot can cook those in a nanosecond. It is a common mistake. Dimmer switches are another component that are easy to cook if you wire them hot. No offense meant, but wiring anything hot is a really, really bad idea. 120 v can and will kill you if you happen to experience an arm to arm or arm to solid ground path. If you take it arm to arm and are grasping the devices, your muscles will spasm and you will NOT be able to let go and a GFCI circuit protecting you may be the only escape plan available.
Jim Don

The GFCI is not cooked as evidenced by it working with no wires on the load side terminals..

If a properly functioning GFCI is upstream of the contact point, no voltage will be felt as the GFCI will trip above 5ma of leakage current...

 

[American Locomotive]

Sorry Line (supply) Load (branch)

Brian

In that case, as mentioned, you actually do have a problem. If the load side is disconnected, and you measure continuity between neutral and ground, you have a problem. Your neutral and ground wires are bonded some place in the load side circuit.

The only place the neutral and ground should be bonded is in the panel.

 

[Orionrising]

Or a screwy device plugged in upstream. I have a screwy shop light I trashed because it tripped a gfci... Light worked fine but had something screwy in the ballast...

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

 

[Brian_WK]

As pointed out above, there should be no continuity between any of the branch circuit wires. The bonded neutral bar in the main will have no effect on disconnected branch circuits.

This neutral to ground continuity(0 ohms is dead short) is the reason for the GFCI tripping.

How many outlets are downstream of the GFCI?

U need to open each box one by one and see if there is any connection between neutral and ground.

*Start by turning the breaker off(NEVER work hot)
*Take the first downstream outlet out of the j box, remove the downstream wires from the outlet(the ones NOT coming from the GFCI) and then test for continuity between neutral and ground. If no continuity, then move onto the next outlet. Repeat til u find the issue...




The GFCI is not cooked as evidenced by it working with no wires on the load side terminals..

If a properly functioning GFCI is upstream of the contact point, no voltage will be felt as the GFCI will trip above 5ma of leakage current...

For some reason I was thinking this was normal being it was a bonded panel and I figured it was the same potential since I still had the grounds connected. Now I see the light once I drew it out and realized I was dumb. Man I hope its in a box and not in the wall... Luckily it is only 3 outlets and 1 light. I think technically I shouldn't be running this circuit on a gfci outlet and should be on a GFCI breaker due to the branch outlets and lights being more than 6 feet away from the GFCI outlet. Would be a ***** for anyone besides me to figure out what is going on if the outlet tripped. Ill probably just fix the short and leave the normal TR outlet.

PS Hey can't check continuity with the power live!

Brian

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Why are you putting a GFCI in on this circuit?

And there is no code limiting distance between devices...where did u hear that?

 

[Brian_WK]

Why are you putting a GFCI in on this circuit?

And there is no code limiting distance between devices...where did u hear that?

I had it on hand and matched the style of a screwless cover. I figured why not.

Maybe no code but would be a pain in the *** for someone besides me to track down a tripped outlet. Outlet and light not work... breaker not tripped... who would think to look at a GFCI on the other side of the door.

Thanks

Brian

 

[American Locomotive]

Well regardless of whether or not you need it or should use it, it did find a problem wih your wiring.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

How old is this house?

 

[Brian_WK]

1974