New GFI Circuit Breakers Pop OFF

[nomadskidoo]

We have a New Home,that's new wired &The GFI Breakers are dropping like crazy,The ie=toaster,coffee pot,Vacuum cleaner,dish washer,clothes washer,all drop off @20 rated amp,Contractor said "these are not good"(other words too!)?Why use them,,,code they say to,6 months later,,, there going to "look "at this problem,now Fun of fixing New Home,&warrentee work???Long known name Wire CompanyThanks!

 

[wyliesdiesels]

What do u mean by the GFCIs are dropping @ 20a?

What brand of breakers?

 

[nomadskidoo]

Individual GFIC breakers,they have a "Pink" Test button on them.2 wires (not old style outlets that had GFI @ wall)circuits 20 amp brand Sq d . popping means they "open"/Blow ,circuit .All Aplliances are all New.
New State Code for wiring.200amp Main =OK yet

 

[Movover]

Do you mean AFCI ? They are much more sensitive but I don't have any problems with mine

 

[Norcal]

Sounds like AFCI's, & if a new home would be a warranty issue.

 

[AntonLargiader]

Individual GFIC breakers,they have a "Pink" Test button on them.

You didn't say the brand, but in Square D Homeline a purple button indicates a dual-function (GFCI/CAFI) breaker. You can run a test on it to see which function tripped it. The instructions should be there in the panel but it's something like: turn it off, hold the button down and turn it on. It will trip again and the delay before tripping tells you which mode faulted (overcurrent, ground fault or arc fault).

I don't know that that is the exact test. Find the real instructions.

 

[nomadskidoo]

Thanks to all!It's a (GFCI/CAFCI)
Square D/Homeline sku# Hom120PDFC

 

[AntonLargiader]

It came with the self-test instructions, but from
https://www.schneider-electric.com/us/en/download/document/HRB86114

1. Place circuit breaker in O/OFF position.
2. Firmly press and continue holding purple ‘TEST’
button through Step 4.
3. Move handle to I/ON position.
4. Circuit breaker should trip at one of the following
times.

Instant - ground fault
2 seconds - arc fault
5 seconds - thermal overload or short

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Ok how soon does it trip?

probably the AFCI function that is nuissance tripping. GFCIs are proven technology that works. AFCIs are not.

Have the builder find replacements.

 

[CNGsaves]

OP . . . where are you at ??? UPDATE GJ Profile with a Location.

 

[nomadskidoo]

Breakers trip/open circuit when washer machine/toaster,coffee pot, turns on,but not all the time,just sometimes,.The storm had lites out,then when power came back on,& the fridge was off next am.so start up is when they trip/open circuit,I should try the "Test "& see how they test.Thanks!Ia.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Sounds like a classic case of AFCIs acting up.

 

[ddawg16]

Sounds like a classic case of AFCIs acting up.

Also sounds like a classic case of not wired properly.

I have AFCI's and have had 0 false trips. Not even my miter saw or skill saw trips them. Nothing...nada...

But I did have a broken wire in one box....it caught that.

 

[American Locomotive]

Also sounds like a classic case of not wired properly.

I have AFCI's and have had 0 false trips. Not even my miter saw or skill saw trips them. Nothing...nada...

But I did have a broken wire in one box....it caught that.

That's great for you. AFCIs have been documented complete nightmares for many, many other people.

I even watched a video of someone keying the mic on a portable HAM radio near his AFCI-filled breaker box. Every single breaker tripped at the same time when he did that.

I'm sorry, but that's a flawed product.

 

[ddawg16]

That's great for you. AFCIs have been documented complete nightmares for many, many other people.

I even watched a video of someone keying the mic on a portable HAM radio near his AFCI-filled breaker box. Every single breaker tripped at the same time when he did that.

I'm sorry, but that's a flawed product.

Apparently that seems to be an issue with the Eaton brand of AFCI's.

And considering how much RF some of those ham radio stations put out...I'm sure it causes other issues. Back before digital TV, I was constantly being bothered by a HAM radio operator a 1/4 mile away.

 

[AntonLargiader]

How many breakers are tripping? You mention a whole list of items, but then talk about "a breaker" and the SKU you reference is for a single clamshell-packed breaker. Not what I would expect a new home builder to buy.

 

[nomadskidoo]

We've had about 6 different breakers open circuit,(Clam shell packaged from supplier,)but I'm sure contractor got from the Local BIG supplier,& he even said"they were Junk"!Always tripping OFF,so why put them in even if it does have to be to Code(Not working correct)if a Table saw is plugged in it (1/2hp)"Goes OFF" every time.I still will put up a 40'x60'x16'wall,Pole barn for a Workable Shop.Electrician was @Home today so I'll see what "Happens"?My Old Shop I worked in,(1875) everything has worked for 20 years,Thanks to all!

 

[larry4406]

The Eaton's definitely trip with CB radio traffic. The truckers parked outside my office would chat, I would hear it briefly blast thru the computer speakers, then bam out goes the AFCI.

Vacuum cleaners also don't play nice.

 

[AntonLargiader]

I only have two of the Homeline DF breakers. One 20A that is used for its GFCI function on the 120V EVSE for the Volt (hasn't tripped in the entire three weeks or so that its been there), and one 15A that will be installed on a circuit of upstairs bedroom receps. I will try to test them with vacuums and so forth to see how they do.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Try testing AFCIs with a drill that has brushes....im sure it will love the dparks...

 

[tomralph]

Try testing AFCIs with a drill that has brushes....im sure it will love the dparks...

For a workshop panel, you recommend against AFCI, I assume? What about GFCI?

 

[Norcal]

For a workshop panel, you recommend against AFCI, I assume? What about GFCI?

GFCI is required, snake oil (AFCI) is not.

 

[tomralph]

why does GFCI have to be more expensive than the AFCH/GFCI combo breakers? grr

 

[wyliesdiesels]

For a workshop panel, you recommend against AFCI, I assume? What about GFCI?

GFCIs are proven and required.

AFCIs are neither.

And thats correct. I dont recommend them.

 

[marinusdees]

Just happened to talk to a guy who works at a wholesale electrical supply. He said it is common practice to install AFCI to pass inspection, then replace with GFCI or conventional after inspection to avoid problems. Welcome to the brave new world.

 

[AntonLargiader]

... install AFCI to pass inspection, then replace with GFCI or conventional after inspection to avoid problems.

Right; after all everyone knows there is no nuisance tripping with GFCIs.

 

[nomadskidoo]

Thanks I'll try the Drill today!

 

[Norcal]

If the wiring was sloppy then AFCI's will act up. The same happens with GFCI's.

 

[AntonLargiader]

I'm wondering if AFCI might be somewhat intolerant of back-stabbed wiring. After all you have some people with zero issues and some people with a lot of issues.

 

[nomadskidoo]

Amazing Contractror came back yesterday&,electric Test with a drill, out lets work!Thanks to all for now.

 

[nomadskidoo]

New Home,I'll do a Amp Load on all.So After12week& Elec Contractor comes out (after inspection)36weeks out & says "Bad batch of Breakers"Sq D Home,OK,he drove 140miles.Ever try UPS/SpeedDee/FedX to Get 6 new brkrs(3lbs)?&3 other Homes the "Same "way,they wired,.DA!What a story?I had another Elec Contractor out to "Inspect"problems= cost (Time &Materials)says a$900 worth of GFCI brkrs waisted!,passed "Code" but OE "Contr 'says JUNK"!TOO!Waisted!So what are we doing here?Fan Off=Blew the breaker.Power went Out & turned on =Fridge blew brker,Contractor say Normal,really!HUH? Industry =Unacceptable,and it's "Normal"?Best of Wishes &,Can't replace bad brkr (36week),known to be BAD.Just A crazy Industry!

 

[thammel]

My laser printer trips my Square D QO type combo AFCI/GFI (purple) breaker. Also if I quickly move a light switch back and forth I can get a trip. But I do prefer them for the added safety.

Tom

 

[ctgoodman]

Yank the arc fault **** and put GFCI where required and regular breakers everywhere else. I was talking about arc fault breakers with an electrical contractor the other day and he hissed at me and made a cross with his fingers as he glared at me. Lol. Needless to say he was not a fan.

 

[nomadskidoo]

Update:The Breakers blowing again(OE-Contractor says "They had a Bad batch" of Square D/Hlte & 3 other Homes "same" problem) so I hired another Elec contractor of 40 years in Biz' &inspected it, says to just "change out" wiring to the circuits blowing,new breakers,(Old Style@$6.00 each)& GFI outlets($400=total job) (OE guy bid @$2,900 home,but was @$8k) Electric wonder of Stories!OE Contractor is "TOO Busy" to look @ it? Imagine that!Some State' Inspectors to make it better??Everyone says "New=Worse"?I believe it !I make Auto Wiring harnesses(35yr) &Understand 12Volts &Teach Auto Electronic's.Just Fixed a 67 Chevy Gas Gage& John Deere "A" ignition conversion(I paid the guy to let me work on it! Ha)Today

 

[Dagny]

We use CH CH breakers very few issues had a carpenter with a mercury vapor light that would trip them an I think one shop vac.

 

[AntonLargiader]

Honestly, without firsthand knowledge I suspect your new house has the sort of electrical issues that AFCI breakers were designed to detect. Poor connections or something. Three houses that the same guy wired are doing this? Mm-kay.

 

[AntonLargiader]

Did you ever run the test to see which function was causing the trip?

 

[Firebrick43]

49 states now require afci on new build/remodels. Only Indiana was smart enough to wait until the cost came down and technology matured. Back stab devices will nuisance trip as well as appliances with high start loads and tools/vacuums with brushed motors.

Ironically it was done in the name of safety but they still sell back stab switches and receptacles.

 

[prostreetamx]

I stopped wiring houses a few years after AFCI's started. We had to swap out dozens of them right away due to recalls. Our nuisance trip service calls went through the roof. Fridges, vacuum cleaners, tread mills and just about any other appliance would trip them. My personal house was done (be me) just before they started that code but if I had AFCI's, they would be sitting on a shelf for the next owner to re install. They are a product searching for a market.

 

[bzinsky]

I have about 250 of those installed on 20 panels, had them done about 2 years ago, no problems at all.

I really thought you didn't need them on gfci outlet circuits, but can't recall now