New Ground for 200a upgrade - question on gauge

[grantw]

As stated in another post, I have a decent project coming up. I have resolved to run two 5/8" 8ft rods 8 feet apart. I know I need to use #4 copper between the rods and up to my main disconnect right off of the meter. Also #4 copper from that disconnect to the main panel down 20' of raceway...

Since my primary grounding system is dual 5/8 rod and #4 copper, what size can I run to bond the water and gas lines?

Thank you for the advise.

edit: I may have found my answer...

In a dwelling, a conductor must be run to metallic water pipe, if present, and connected with a UL-listed pipe grounding clamp (Photo 4). This bonding conductor is to be sized according to Table 250.66, based on the size of the largest ungrounded service entrance conductor or equivalent area for parallel conductors.

anyone want to give a second opinion please?

 

[dw1]

For 200 amp, # 4 cu for water ground, you can use # 6 cu for driven grounds.

 

[sberry]

4 if water is a grounding electrode. 6 to rods and it could be as small as 10 to other piping but 6 with that is easy too.

 

[CNGsaves]

Sparky's chime in . . . . I thought ground rods were to be 10 ft long ????

 

[pattenp]

Nope, 8ft.

 

[grantw]

Basically, All I can find is that I need to bond water using #4 and I can use another clamp on the water to link to gas as well as ground rods. This leaves me in an odd spot with actually running an EGC across the garage to the water line... I drew up some crappy diagrams to show my current setup and what the new one would look like from overhead.

The right side wall where the water line comes in is the the exterior man door.

The top wall is the house door, so no conduit along that wall unless it's >8 ft high.

 

[grantw]

After reading codes over and over, I've determined, that I'll run bare #4 solid from my service disconnect (bonding point) over the garage door and along the opposite wall to my cold water pipe. If I can I'll pound two 8ft ground rods and try to go from the furthest ground rod to the Service Disconnect in one unbroken run of #4. For the gas line, I'll bod it with a separate clamp on the water line. Yes I know I can use #6 on the rods, but I'm only doing this once, so if I can do it "unbroken", I'll deal with the headache.

From my Service disconnect, I'll run #4 insulated and stranded (green tape markings) to a non neutral bonded main panel for the whole house.

The inspector will have final say on the matter. But I think I have the grounding path down... ?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

As stated in another post, I have a decent project coming up. I have resolved to run two 5/8" 8ft rods 8 feet apart. I know I need to use #4 copper between the rods and up to my main disconnect right off of the meter. Also #4 copper from that disconnect to the main panel down 20' of raceway...

Since my primary grounding system is dual 5/8 rod and #4 copper, what size can I run to bond the water and gas lines?

Thank you for the advise.

edit: I may have found my answer...


anyone want to give a second opinion please?

Wait a minute.

U dont need to run a GEC from the main disconnect to the subpanel(house panel is considered a subpanel.)

U need an EGC/ground which can be #8 cu for 100a and #6 for 200a. It needs to be green insulated.

But u shouldve ran 4-wires to that panel all at the same time.

 

[sberry]

It needs to be green insulated.

Which where does it need to be green ? And insulated?

 

[grantw]

Wait a minute.

U dont need to run a GEC from the main disconnect to the subpanel(house panel is considered a subpanel.)

U need an EGC/ground which can be #8 cu for 100a and #6 for 200a. It needs to be green insulated.

But u shouldve ran 4-wires to that panel all at the same time.

The plan is to run #4 from two ground rods and the cold water pipe to the main disconnect (bonding point). Then a #4 insulated along with the 3 2/0 copper lines through 2" conduit the 15' it takes to get to the main house panel (un-bonded). So I'll have 3 2/0 copper conductors coming from my meter socket, and one ground coming from a 3/4" knockout on the bottom of the disconnect panel.

(Cal)NEC 250.66 says I need to use #4 copper with 2/0 copper service conductors. Since I am very unsure of the condition of the current water pipe, I decided to go overkill and pound in two rods. I have a 10ft 3/4 inch copper plated steel rod and 10 feet away from that I have an 8ft 5/8inch rod.

Where are you getting #6 and #8 sizing from?

 

[sberry]

6 to rods for 200, 8 for 100, same for egc. They would just as soon see the water as the primary, likely the reason for a size bigger conductor.