new guy here...want to get your thoughts.

[hysinthius]

Hi guys just joined and have been spending the last month or so just reading the forums. Wanted to get your guys thoughts on this.

We decided to buy the house we have been living in for the past 5 years. Problem is that there is no garage and the property is 66'x380'. I’ve been wanting a garage for years as I work on everything myself but have to do it at the in-laws or my buddies which is getting old and i hate bothering them.

So I talked to the local zoning guy who said I can go up to a max of 40x50 (literally on the line) due to needing to be 10' from the side property lines and 35' from the back. So here is my dilemma.

I don’t have much saved any longer as I am buying the house...but will be doing it myself over time.

Mind you I live in Western NY and it gets pretty chilly with a decent snow fall (other than this year).

What is the easiest way to start building (slowly over time). Debating between 30x50 or 40x50 with a hybrid of pole barn / stick as I plan to be in it a lot over the winter.

So with hookups... I got a quote on 4000PSI w fiber 30x50 $2147 including deliv. 2inch crusher run for $7 ton guestimating 18-22 tons at hair under $160.00 free deliv. Quarry is only 3 miles behind me.

So guestimating floor will run me lil under 2500 + keg or 2 of beer and grilling meat.

In the garage i need space for... 3 quads, 2 snowmobiles, 1 motorcycle, 1 mustang. room to put a 2 post lift 10k bendpak...already have it, and room for 1 empty bay.

might put the 10x14 shed behind it to put the sleds in.


Thinking about configuring it long way with 2 9'x10' doors on the narrow side and one 10x10 on the far end. And a 6' roll up on the side somewhere for quad mower repair access (all ready scored one for 50 bucks).

I was told i don’t need to put rebar in other then in areas around lift and corners being that there is fiber in it? Does this sound right?
So should I stay 30x50 or 40x50 I’m thinking 30x50 as I want to leave a little room without the whole back yard having a shop across it.




JD

 

[NUTTSGT]

Western NY and it gets chilly, you have a roll up door, how well is that door insulated ? I'd imagine it'll lose a lot of heat out that door.

I'd also stay at 2 overhead doors, it'll decrease the cost of construction, make it simplier and insulate/heat easier.

 

[kbs2244]

Forget the fiber and get lots of rebar.

 

[softailgarage]

Not being a smartass, why dont you find a house WITH a garage ? It seems like a lot of additional time, money and work staying at this house. Is there any particular reason for staying there or is it because you've been there 5 years ? Again, not trying to be a smartass, just looking for a better option. And welcome to the Journal

 

[Worsedog]

You don't show the positioning of the house in relation to the lot, but if you are worried about overpowering the lot widthwise I'd turn the garage longways with the lot. Then set the doors to have minimum exposure to prying eyes.

Oh, and screw the fiber, rebar it.

 

[hysinthius]

Not being a smartass, why dont you find a house WITH a garage ? It seems like a lot of additional time, money and work staying at this house. Is there any particular reason for staying there or is it because you've been there 5 years ? Again, not trying to be a smartass, just looking for a better option. And welcome to the Journal

no offence taken. in all honesty we are comfortable and for what we have minus the garage we wouldnt find comparable. And we are getting a super deal.

to drop 15-20 on a shop is a steal.

as for the roll up its only for that 6 footer. I was talking to a buddy about that to today as well and we might reposition that to a seperate room.

JD

 

[NUTTSGT]

Positioning like you have it, I might forego all the doors and just have one 10 or 12" overhead door plus a 36" man door.

 

[wintermute]

I don't think I'd put any sort of egress/ingress on the sides facing away from the house or the closest property line–keeping all entrances visible to the house. Also, what sort of height restrictions do you have, if any?

 

[akdiesel]

For starters that far back and withe trees I would not worry to much about easements incrauchment. Build a 46x40 in between those two trees and put two over head 10' wide doors on the right front. You can move all those toys easy enough by hand. A 30' deep shop is. Of going to give you much room to move things from one end to the other with obstacles.
As said use rebar and wire mesh. A bit more dollars but a better product.
Go at least 12' tall or better 14'.
If not already done stake and string out your options and layout in your choices to get a real foot print of your toys. You have a great looking property and I hate to see trees cut for no reason.

 

[64dragnwagon]

Just don't put rebar where you will have to drill holes for your lift. If you hit a rebar with the drill it will be VERY difficult to drill through. If you put it in get it below the bolt depth or out of the way. Personally I think fiber and maybe wire mesh would be good enough. I did a 4" 4,000 psi floor without fiber and dug the lift post locations to about 8-10" depth.

 

[R6 Racer]

Welcome to GJ!
Congrats on your home purchase! Nice looking piece of property!

Can you get the cost of the shop build (completely) included in your mortgage? I ask because around here that would go over just fine with the bank & you could get your shop completed right away.

Try to make your finished inside height 14'. That gives you lots of height for a lift & with 14' you can put a 6' tall mezzanine around the sides or wherever you don't have a lift. Also with 14' of height you can put shallow vent windows up top on both sides giving you great cross ventilation & natural light with only a small security risk

Do 2 - 10x10 OH doors on the front, with only your man door on the side & I would only do that if you cant fit it on the front. I agree with wintermute about not putting any doors (or windows) on the back of the shop. I would definitely have that as a solid wall (security reasons), an opening that's completely hidden from your view is very inviting to criminals.

Steve

 

[hysinthius]

No mortagage... like i said we got a smoking deal as we lived here for over 5 years an know the the owners since we were kids.

So im looking to build this with not owing anyone anything especially a bank. Car is about to be paid off so that leaves us with one car payment left.

No wories on the back door as the property is on the furthest side of the village and a corn feild behind. im also planning on making the back door only able to be opened from the inside.

we did decide to do away with the small roll up and the extra man door. Reason i want the back door is that I want the lift in the back and to be easily accessible in the case of somthing being parked in the front or a seperate project that is going on.

security for the most part isnt an issue for the most part as we are in a mostly over 60 area that is off the beaten path. most of the neighors have enough firearms for a militia, additionally i have a few spare IP cameras that placed on the back of the shop as well as in it.

as for the size i been kicking around 32 wide by 48 deep and 14 foot ceiling with a framed in parts room with a office over top. 6x6 8'OC

JD

 

[Falcon67]

You have some serious hookups on that concrete deal. I would rebar the **** out of it to keep it together. There are other threads on this issue. Fiber is not designed to keep the slab together.

I would do a proper foundation then go from there. If you buy a pole barn or metal building package, you'd have to set the slab up for it. If you stick build, you'll need to lay out your wall anchor and door locations before the pour. I'm nearing "good 'nuff" on my stick build and have been at it almost a year, so you can string out that DIY stuff after the foundation is ready. The land and building are paid for too.

 

[hysinthius]

ive read a ton of posts about radiant heat in the floor...is it worth it wth what im looking at for size.

How much would this run me?

I plan on running a pellet stove in there as of this moment.

JD

 

[Highbeam]

I am just finishing a 30x60 that is laid out in the manner you show in your first diagram except no side doors at all and a man door on the end with only a single OH door. With 30 width I was able to use three 12x12 overhead doors.

I also have a 150x300' lot configured just like yours with the home in front by the street. I chose to put the shop close to the house and make the shop a "pull-through" deal. Close to the house so that I would be more likely to use it vs. hiking to the back 40 to spend time in the shop. I also wanted the area behind the shop for a turn around area and an area to stack and store firewood plus less sightly things like tractor implements. I don't plan on backing a long trailer from the street all the way back to the shop so planning for a turn around area was important.

The 30x60 setup with three doors on gable ends (30') only makes for three bays and a shop area. Perfect for my wheeled hobbies.

I went with pole construction since a building of this size is much cheaper with pole construction.

I put the tubes, 1800LF, in the slab for radiant heat with plans for using this heat to just keep it above freezing. I hope to use something else to boost up the temps when I plan to work out there. Maybe the low level slab heat will be enough, people seem to love that type of heat.

All solid fuel heaters, including pellet stoves, are illegal in garages per the international fire code. People still do it but be sure that you are comfortable with the potential for no insurance coverage in the event of a fire whether you were using the stove or not.

 

[hysinthius]

All solid fuel heaters, including pellet stoves, are illegal in garages per the international fire code. People still do it but be sure that you are comfortable with the potential for no insurance coverage in the event of a fire whether you were using the stove or not.

hmmm didnt know that...i think about every shop ive been in has has some soft of wood stove or pelet stove in it. other then the father in laws. He has a regular house furnace in it since he does hvac.

Have to talk to him about that.

As mentioned befor after alot of thinking im not going to do the side doors other then just a man type door towards the front corner. It will be veiwable from the house.


can you put up some pics of the 3 bay side...and when done with a vehicle in it. thats been my biggest problem is proportions or at least what i think i need in my head.


I cant wait for the project to start....just waiting on the lawyer to finalize the paperwork as we didnt go through a realtor.

JD

 

[Highbeam]

can you put up some pics of the 3 bay side...and when done with a vehicle in it. thats been my biggest problem is proportions or at least what i think i need in my head.

JD

Here is the backside. The three "bays" are one 15x30' area in front of each door and then the final 15x30 space is shop area for benches and stuff.

 

[hysinthius]

Here is the backside. The three "bays" are one 15x30' area in front of each door and then the final 15x30 space is shop area for benches and stuff.

thanks that puts it into perspective.


JD

 

[Outlawmws]

sewer or septic, and if septic, where is the leach field? you don't want to be dealing with that. as mentioned I'd pull it forward, IF there is no leach field. How much back yard between the house and shop is reasonable? work from there.

Piecing a shop that large is going to be difficult. and you need to think about how long it will be before you can reasonably think about spending to build. It might be never. (Been there done that, I planned on a 20x30 ft shop in my back yard, and 25 years later it is still a plan... life intervenes, I raised a family, had to add on to the house, and it just never happened.)

If I had it to do over I would have shopped harder and found the house we needed (with the shop I wanted) up front...

 

[hysinthius]

its septic and proposed position of the shop will be approximately 140 feet from the house. leaves a bit of yard between the two.

JD

 

[Toomanytools?]

Jd:
Welcome, check out this company http://www.radiantcompany.com/
They will give you a calculation of what you need based on the building, windows, location. You can buy from them prices are not bad on tubing and fittings, might look eleswhere for a heat source. ( I have no connection to them). They gave me a quote and sent me the plan very nice. I have yet to start my shop but this gives you an idea on cost and planning a budget.

On the lift I talked with a rep at Bendpak I asked if the slab needed to be thicker or reinforced here is his reply: "Gave you ops manual with install instructions including cement – Please review and let me know if there are still questions.

Normally 4” for 10k at 3000psi and 5” for 12k are sufficient – but some guys (urg urg urg) always want to reinforce where posts will be but not necessary."

Just a thought if it was my place I might move it closer to the house just a tad. Good luck with the planning and build.
Jeff

 

[hysinthius]

Jd:
Welcome, check out this company http://www.radiantcompany.com/
They will give you a calculation of what you need based on the building, windows, location. You can buy from them prices are not bad on tubing and fittings, might look eleswhere for a heat source. ( I have no connection to them). They gave me a quote and sent me the plan very nice. I have yet to start my shop but this gives you an idea on cost and planning a budget.

On the lift I talked with a rep at Bendpak I asked if the slab needed to be thicker or reinforced here is his reply: "Gave you ops manual with install instructions including cement – Please review and let me know if there are still questions.

Normally 4” for 10k at 3000psi and 5” for 12k are sufficient – but some guys (urg urg urg) always want to reinforce where posts will be but not necessary."

Just a thought if it was my place I might move it closer to the house just a tad. Good luck with the planning and build.
Jeff

ya i already looked and for the qoute i got for concrete was for the 4000psi at 4 inch with fiber.

Ill definately be putting rebar in reguardless of being told i didnt need it. its and extra couple of hundred bucks but worth the peice of mind.

Ill be going to the lumber yard tomorrow to get a qoute on the trusses, poles and framing.

JD

 

[hysinthius]

lol well its been 5 months. Closed on the house and winter is about to settle in so ill be starting the garage build in the spring. finalized on a 36x48x14. Right as of this moment i have a huge pile of fill out back that i need to level out as the spot the barn is going on is a bowl currently.

Wish i could have started it this year but the other half got a hot tub so that steem rolled from building a pad, electrical and a 16x40 deck. Figured she gets this ill get mine next year...which she agreed.

JD

 

[camarotoolman]

In a cold climate I would keep the ceiling aslow as possible, because of heating all that space in the winter. Heat rises. Have just the area of the lift be tall. Also over heat doors let alot of heat out. (used to live by Lake Erie too) burrr

 

[akdiesel]

These are some of the pros and cons to radiant heating versus forced air. Heat recovery on radiant is not that good, but forced air allows for the heat to stay up high rather than down on the floor.

 

[hysinthius]

well its been a while since I posted...

Been doing a lot of projects in the house over the winter and now that spring is coming i have a few more till i can really start on the barn. Need to get the deck finished, buy a lawn mower, and build a shed to put the mower in and to be a storage for tools etc for the barn build.

So the dimensions on the barn changed a bit due to reality and thickness of the pocket book. I am now planning a 36x40 with 16 foot ceiling height. i went to 16 as i could add a proper mezzanine / bar / lounge area in the back corner. With this i could turn it into a working area under it to store tool boxes or even tarp off for a paint booth.

here is the quotes i got this week. can you guys look them over and let me know if they seem in the ball park of what they should be.

 

[hysinthius]

 

[hysinthius]

not sure how this will come out.

 

[hysinthius]

so the above quote is just for the barn no concrete other then for the poles obviously.

 

[Toomanytools?]

So the price was cut off looks like $16000 or so, which is just the shop package? Sounds about right materials run about $10-12/ square foot, course that depends on amount of doors and openings. Looks like your on the way.

 

[hysinthius]

ya hair over 16k.

My plan is to try to divide this into 3 chunks. purchase the metal first (put it in storage) and then the wood. the doors ill purchase at the end as i have to talk to a friend of mine that i think i can cut that at least by a 1/3rd. I will do all the electrical in the winter and finally the concrete next spring.

I figured this way i can string it out over a summer and reduce the hit on expenses all at once. at least that's the goal.

the above isn't the original quote... I transferred it over to excel to break it up into chunks.

JD

 

[hysinthius]

funny...thing that its a close to a year since this last post. So in that year we have been doing a ton to the house and nothing for the garage. Upgraded all the appliances, remodeled the kitchen and bath. Started finishing the basement for my basement Gun / reloading room. rewired the whole house with new coax and Cat6 for multimedia and some home automation. Finished the deck with hot tub lights and so on.

So...finally this year im planning on starting the garage. Talked to the New zoning guy who has been a bit more stick on what he will "permit" to be built in the town. Luckily I have had some other run-ins with him and he seems a bit more open to what I have planned vs how others have fared with him.

so the plans are still for something between a 36x40 and a 40x40. but He did say as long as I stay within the 36 hear 12 sides (funny that its different from the last guy) that I'm OK. Oh ya for some reason I put on here last time it was septic...its actually sewer not sure how I miss-spoke on that.


I have some diagrams created for the radiant heat and lift and so forth ill post them shortly.

JD

 

[hysinthius]

Well its been 9 years lol...a lots happened in life but finally it has been starting. I found the old quotes and man has things changed since then. about 2.5x the price. still living at the same place but have also purchased property up in Adirondacks so I'm not planning on moving which would have prob been more ideal for garage place. But all that being said it has begun finally. New building is going to be 30x48x16 which is being put up by a 3rd party. Later in the summer I will be adding a 10x48x8 lean-to (my self) on the side, which will be closed in on 3/4 of it. I will start a new thread to track the progress. Its only been 3 days since the start of the build and its already been an adventure. trying to stay positive but I will definitely need to keep an eye on them as I have had to point out a few things. Hate to be that annoying customer but when measurements are off there off.

 

[Jinks]

Well its been 9 years lol...a lots happened in life but finally it has been starting. I found the old quotes and man has things changed since then. about 2.5x the price. still living at the same place but have also purchased property up in Adirondacks so I'm not planning on moving which would have prob been more ideal for garage place. But all that being said it has begun finally. New building is going to be 30x48x16 which is being put up by a 3rd party. Later in the summer I will be adding a 10x48x8 lean-to (my self) on the side, which will be closed in on 3/4 of it. I will start a new thread to track the progress. Its only been 3 days since the start of the build and its already been an adventure. trying to stay positive but I will definitely need to keep an eye on them as I have had to point out a few things. Hate to be that annoying customer but when measurements are off there off.

Never "hate being an annoying customer". You'll hate the results from annoying contractors worse. If they can't stick with correct measurements you NEED to be annoying! Only good contractors deserve good customers!

 

[Joe Reed]

Just an observation that others planning as you did might consider.....obviously too late for you to consider now.

It's been 10+ years since your first post indicating that you wanted a shop, tired of using in-law's and friend's shops, and no interest in having a mortgage - so the build would have to be done over time. While I fully understand not wanting to make any debt for the project, consider the following:

- It now appears that you'll spend at least 2.5 times the amount it would have cost you had you made a loan and completed the project 10 years ago.
- If you had made a mortgage to fund the project back then, you could have that paid off by now....and had the use of the building for the last decade. Your financing cost would have almost certainly been far less than the increase in your cost of construction.
- Add into the equation whatever you think the value of having that building for the last 10 years would be.

Not incurring debt is an admirable goal, but sometimes it's actually a better idea if you consider the entire picture.

Just my opinion....

 

[duga]

Just an observation that others planning as you did might consider.....obviously too late for you to consider now.

It's been 10+ years since your first post indicating that you wanted a shop, tired of using in-law's and friend's shops, and no interest in having a mortgage - so the build would have to be done over time. While I fully understand not wanting to make any debt for the project, consider the following:

- It now appears that you'll spend at least 2.5 times the amount it would have cost you had you made a loan and completed the project 10 years ago.
- If you had made a mortgage to fund the project back then, you could have that paid off by now....and had the use of the building for the last decade. Your financing cost would have almost certainly been far less than the increase in your cost of construction.
- Add into the equation whatever you think the value of having that building for the last 10 years would be.

Not incurring debt is an admirable goal, but sometimes it's actually a better idea if you consider the entire picture.

Just my opinion....

Truer words,,,,,,

I had plans in 2006 for a nice shop on my current property. 2022 it became reality. All that time, lost

 

[dougf]

I think its really cool that te OP updated 11 years later. Don't beat yourself up too bad about that 2012 price sheet compared to now, every single one of us has things we wish we would have done with prices were cheaper!

 

[hysinthius]

Western NY Shop Build 30x48x16

So after 9 years of scouring this site and making plans and putting things off due to family obligations and just general excuses, I finally pulled the trigger and its beginning. Here is a building plan I made for myself to keep my general thoughts in line during this build. I also used it to...

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