New Guy Needing Some Wiring Help

[93fim5]

Hey guys long time lurker, just want to run my situation by everyone and get some input and start being a little more active. I just bought my first home in Denver, Colorado on 4/4/14 and while the fiance and I are updating and renovating the house I'm looking to add some additional lighting and outlets to the garage. The issue I'm having is the house has a 100 amp service since its a bit older (built in 83) and I'm looking at running a subpanel to the garage to help ease distribution. BTW I've converted the dryer and oven/range to help eliminate some demand.

At the moment my plan is to install a 50 amp double pole breaker in the main panel, run a 6-3 from the main breaker through the attic and drop it down into the subpanel to feed the garage. I'm thinking 6 outlets on a 20amp breaker with the first outlet being GFCI to protect the line all on 12-2 Romex. A second breaker at 15amps for my lighting (12X Recessed Cree LED) on 14-2 Romex ran in the garage attic.

Besides reviewing what I'm planning my other questions are: What type of grounding do I need for the panel, 1 rod or 2 , should I run the feeder line in conduit even if its in the attic, any issues with running a 30amp double pole breaker for a 240 circuit, since I'm insulating and drywalling at the moment anyone see any reason to run anything besides Romex? Last question is there any issue with running a larger capacity panel say 100amp even if I wont have that much capacity or do I need to increase my cable size just in case, the 100 amp panels are just more widely available?

A few pics of some of the garage work.

We removed a bunch of packing foam the previous owner used to "insulate" and pulled down a lot of slatwall and bad cabinets so that we could do things properly . . . SO getting the insulation in.


Jamie_Insulation by 93FIM5, on Flickr

Went pretty quick.


Garage_Insulated by 93FIM5, on Flickr

Using 5/8 type X drywall through out, went quickly .


Jamie_Jessi_Garage_Wall_1 by 93FIM5, on Flickr

Happy Jamie = Happy Greg


Garage_Insulation_JG by 93FIM5, on Flickr

M5 moved back in.


M5_New_Drywall by 93FIM5, on Flickr

Thanks guys look forward to your answers.

-Greg

 

[rockwithjason]

you can use romex for all of that. you don't need an additional ground rod at the subpanel, you carry the ground from the main. you can hang a 100a panel on a 50a circuit, no issue. if you really believe that you will need more in the future then run pipe or upsize the cable now, that is the expensive part anyway. no issue with the 240v 30a circuit. the rest of your plan sounds decent

 

[aandpdan]

Agree with the above. Only a detached garage would need ground rods.

 

[mm08822]

The insulation and drywall looks good. However, you should hold off on doing anymore until you get your wiring in. It will be a quicker, easier and better job doing the electrical as new work than fishing cables as old work. Hold off on taping your new Sheetrock as you might want to remove a sheet to get wiring installed.

 

[cdestuck]

Congrats on the new house and ambition to tear into things. But, I need to agree with MM. When I saw the first pic of the completed insulation I though, oh no! And when I saw the installed drywall, I thought oh no, oh no. You need outlets, outlets, outlets. I just that section of wall the great lookin gals are showing, I would have a minimum of three outlets at about 48" and prob two at 16'' off the floor. Easy now, hard later

 

[Stuart in MN]

The electrical has been covered, so I'll complement you on the M5.

 

[pattenp]

You ought to price the difference of the 6-3 copper vs upping to 2-2-2-4 aluminum SER which will give you a max feed capability of 90A. With the #2 wire you may need to use a minimum of a 60A breaker for the wire to fit.

 

[93fim5]

you can use romex for all of that. you don't need an additional ground rod at the subpanel, you carry the ground from the main. you can hang a 100a panel on a 50a circuit, no issue. if you really believe that you will need more in the future then run pipe or upsize the cable now, that is the expensive part anyway. no issue with the 240v 30a circuit. the rest of your plan sounds decent

Thanks I figured the ground rod was redundant but I've realized that there are lots of codes out there that can easily catch me with my pants down!

Agree with the above. Only a detached garage would need ground rods.

Makes sense.

The insulation and drywall looks good. However, you should hold off on doing anymore until you get your wiring in. It will be a quicker, easier and better job doing the electrical as new work than fishing cables as old work. Hold off on taping your new Sheetrock as you might want to remove a sheet to get wiring installed.

That was the plan, the remaining walls are all open. The wall we did I don't have any plans for outlets on but I am considering a ceiling drop or two now.

Congrats on the new house and ambition to tear into things. But, I need to agree with MM. When I saw the first pic of the completed insulation I though, oh no! And when I saw the installed drywall, I thought oh no, oh no. You need outlets, outlets, outlets. I just that section of wall the great lookin gals are showing, I would have a minimum of three outlets at about 48" and prob two at 16'' off the floor. Easy now, hard later

Thanks! I'm trying to keep outlets mainly on the opposing wall from the garage door where my bench will be. The majority of the wall we finished is covered in slatwall for yard tools so outlet space is lacking, but I'm thinking some ceiling drops would be a good idea more and more.

The electrical has been covered, so I'll complement you on the M5.

Thanks its definitely been a long fun project that's finally starting to wrap up!

You ought to price the difference of the 6-3 copper vs upping to 2-2-2-4 aluminum SER which will give you a max feed capability of 90A. With the #2 wire you may need to use a minimum of a 60A breaker for the wire to fit.

Thanks I'll definitely research it!

Thanks again guys I appreciate the help!

 

[volleyball]

What about outside outlets? Run the wires so you can flush mount some outside outlets. Also good to bring some coax and cat6 wire into the space. Keep it away from the power wires.
Lastly Jamie seems to be involved with someone, what's up with Jessi?

 

[93fim5]

What about outside outlets? Run the wires so you can flush mount some outside outlets. Also good to bring some coax and cat6 wire into the space. Keep it away from the power wires.
Lastly Jamie seems to be involved with someone, what's up with Jessi?

Dont have any outside outlets on the garage but have a few on the deck for the house, not sure I see much benefit to adding more. As for coax and CAT6 already done for my work bench computer/tv.

Thats my ugly mug with Jamie and Jessi is Jamies younger sister who was visiting not sure on her status haha.

-Greg

 

[Rookie2]

Hi, Better check that drywall with local code ! The attached garage usually has to have a fire rating and no heating cooling ducts w/o fire doors.

 

[shawhite]

Never seen drywall staggered like that. Usually here they line up the top and bottom sheet to make taping easier

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Walled shared with the house is a firewall, and needs to be properly sheetrocked, and any penetrations need to be properly sealed. Also no back to back elect boxes in the shared wall in the same stud bay with ones in the house.

Charles

 

[93fim5]

Hi, Better check that drywall with local code ! The attached garage usually has to have a fire rating and no heating cooling ducts w/o fire doors.

The drywall you see going up is on an exterior wall, the wall opposite is sheetrocked to code for fire rating. Appreciate the concern.

Never seen drywall staggered like that. Usually here they line up the top and bottom sheet to make taping easier

Thats because Jamie and her younger sister were trying to surprise me by getting some of it done before I got home and did it a little differently haha! I found it pretty funny honestly but had to appreciate the sentiment and we kept going . Will definitely make it fun later to tape and mud as you pointed out.

Walled shared with the house is a firewall, and needs to be properly sheetrocked, and any penetrations need to be properly sealed. Also no back to back elect boxes in the shared wall in the same stud bay with ones in the house.

Charles

Thanks for the additional info and like I mentioned above the wall being drywalled creatively is an exterior wall.

So luckily I have been preoccupied with the interior renovation and most of the work in the garage was stalled because we ended up picking up a BMW i3 about a month ago and now I need to plan for its hardwired 240v 40amp circuit as well. That got me thinking and feature creep set in . . . thinking the following circuit wise:

- 6 outlets on a 20amp breaker with the first outlet being GFCI to protect the line all on 12-2 Romex.
- 6 outlets on a 20amp breaker with the first outlet being GFCI to protect the line all on 12-2 Romex for ceiling plugs above the car locations and one for the garage door and three on the creatively drywalled wall .
- 15amp breaker for my lighting (12X Recessed Cree LED) on 14-2 Romex ran in the garage attic.
- 50amp double pole breaker for a 240 circuit for a air compressor.
- 50amp double pole breaker for the i3's charger
- 50amp double pole for a welder.

At the moment I'm thinking I will have the power company out to see what the cost would be to bump the service up at the main panel so I can have a true 100amp sub panel for the garage. Looking forward to your guys input and help!

-Greg

 

[theoldwizard1]

You ought to price the difference of the 6-3 copper vs upping to 2-2-2-4 aluminum SER which will give you a max feed capability of 90A. With the #2 wire you may need to use a minimum of a 60A breaker for the wire to fit.

Good tip !

 

[93fim5]

Bump any input guys.

 

[pattenp]

Bump any input guys.

Okay.. so why a 50A circuit if the BMW only calls for a 40A? The 50A circuit for the welder is a 99% sure thing. The 50A circuit for a compressor is most likely more than needed. Have you picked out a compressor that you want?

 

[pattenp]

Never seen drywall staggered like that. Usually here they line up the top and bottom sheet to make taping easier

That's how it's suppose to be hung when putting it up horizontally. Except the stagger should be more.

 

[93fim5]

Okay.. so why a 50A circuit if the BMW only calls for a 40A? The 50A circuit for the welder is a 99% sure thing. The 50A circuit for a compressor is most likely more than needed. Have you picked out a compressor that you want?

The charger has a NEMA 14-50 plug so I believe it has to be a 50A circuit due to the plug according to NEC or am I reading that incorrectly? They offer a hardwired version that I could get and with the unit being 32A I could use a 40A breaker, sound right? I was trying to stick with a plug in version and associated wiring for potential resale.

Just picked the compressor today and sent off for a price, looking at a Quincy Q13160VQ which should require a 30A breaker.

Do you think I should investigate increasing the houses service?

Glad to know they were on the right idea about the drywall and glad to of learned something new!

Thanks again for the insight its much appreciated.

-Greg

 

[Charles (in GA)]

I assume the Bimmer is some sort of electric car? I'm not familiar with it. Have looked at chargers extensively as many, and I do mean many, of my co-workers got Nissan Leafs in the past year. (they were free, so why not?). Some of the chargers are available either hardwired or plug in. If it is inside, I'd just do the plug in variety. Some chargers are good, some not so good, some just plain cheap.

Charles

 

[93fim5]

I assume the Bimmer is some sort of electric car? I'm not familiar with it. Have looked at chargers extensively as many, and I do mean many, of my co-workers got Nissan Leafs in the past year. (they were free, so why not?). Some of the chargers are available either hardwired or plug in. If it is inside, I'd just do the plug in variety. Some chargers are good, some not so good, some just plain cheap.

Charles

Yea picked up an i3 BEV, very happy with it so far. Charger I'm looking at is a Clipper Creek HCS-40 plug in with a NEMA 14-50 plug.

i3 is for daily commuting and around town, X3 diesel for longer trips via BMW's Flexible Mobility Program when we dont want to take the M5, and the 89 351 Bronco for camping and wood hauling.

-Greg

 

[93fim5]

I'm about to run some wiring for my recessed lights in the garage and I'm curious what the best way to run the Romex is. Should I run it on top of the 2x4 trusses for the garage ceiling (In the attic space that will be used for storage) or along the side of the trusses and loop over when crossing the trusses perpendicularly? Anyone have any good advice with regards to the NEC code? Thanks!

Greg