New guy needs ideas for heat.

[SSCR]

Just spent a great part of the evening searching through threads on this awesome forum, trying to get ideas for heat in my new garage.

I live near Chicago and the winters can be pretty rough, the gargae is 22' wide by 31' deep, planning on insulating with R13 in the walls and R19 in the ceiling. The service door is double walled steel with insulation and I have quite a few windows but they are double pane with low E glass. I do have a second story that is dormered out that I also would like heated. I park two vehicles in there that will be in and out and only plan on heating the garage when I'm out there working on a project, or hanging out with friends (i.e. man cave).

I orginally planned on a pellet stove but thought that might be overkill and take too long to warm the place. Plus I can't use the tax break since it is new construction and not really considered a "dwelling". I also thought about "blue flame" ventless heaters hung on the walls, one on each floor fed by a propane tank outside but heard they might be dangerous. Please note that I don't plan on any painting, other high fume work or making saw dust, just wrenching on some old motorcycles and such. I could probably trench a natural gas line out there, but for the few times a month I would really be heating the garage, I think it might be too much trouble. I have a deck that the line would have to go under, yikes. My electric buddy says that I really shouldn't eat up my panel trying to use electric heat (baseboard) and that it really isn't cost effective. Also I would like something a little more permanent than a portable kerosene heater or the like, man I am a premadonna.

After all my searching tonight, I really only found more solutions that I could go with and I'm really confused. Seems like everyone hear really loves Mr. Heat ceiling mounted heaters. Any ideas would be welcomed and thanks this seems like a great place!

 

[jklingel]

The only part I am comfortable answering on is the insulation. FG is the WORST batt insulation on the planet. If AT ALL possible, use cotton or cellulose batts(treated w/ borates), or rock wool. Blow cellulose into the lid. Use the airtight drywall approach (ADA) with the sheet rock, and you probably do not need (or want) a true vapor barrier in Chicago. Buildingscience.com has a map for area that should/not have VBs; sorry, I don't have the exact link. They are generally only needed in colder or much hotter/wetter areas, but check me out on that. AIR SEAL meticulously, and good luck. john

 

[Andamo]

SSCR, I was in a very similar situation as you. I had my 24 x 36 2 story garage built in 1999. I'm located in western PA, so our winters can get bad too. The garage sits at a 90* angle to our house and the only connection between the two is a deck from the house to the second story of the garage. I ran a gas line from in the basement, under the deck and into the garage and put a T in the line so I could put a heater both upstairs and downstairs. I ended up buying 2 unvented gas heaters and installed 1 downstairs and 1 upstairs. I forget the BTU's on the heaters, but I knew the 1 downstairs wouldn't be enough. It would take the chill off the downstairs area, but not really make it warm. Now I don't have insulation either, just the open studs. The 2 problems with the ventless heaters are the fumes and the amount of water it puts into the air. I would work out there for 2-3 hours and the cars would have a water film on them, plus I always ended up with a mild headache. My main reason for going with the ventless heater was because I didn't want to cut a hole in the side of my new garage. Last summer I decided it was time to make a heater change. I ended up with a 60,000 BTU Reznor with a powered vent. I was going to install it myself, but I hurt my back and had a heating contractor install it. Now, granted this is overkill for a 24 x 36 area, but I can open the door for the upstairs and heat that area if I wanted to. But I left the other unvented heater up there and the space is walled off to a 24 x 15' area and all insulated for my shop. It works well up there since I can keep the thermostat on low and it heats up the area pretty quick.
My point in this post is to try and steer you away from unvented heaters and go with a heater with a exhaust. Good luck.

 

[trythis]

I would want to know how high your ceiling is. I am a fan of overhead radiant tube heaters and would advocate them if you have a tallish ceiling.

Certainly use a vented heater unless you want you old motorcycles rusting.

 

[SSCR]

Great info, thanks guys! My ceilings are little over 8' feet tall so I don't have huge head room. So sounds like ventless is kinda of a bad idea.... even if I ran a dehumidifer? Keep the ideas and info coming and I'll keep searching older posts. Thanks-D

 

[trythis]

I think you would need a couple of humidifiers, then your electric bill goes up. I as thinking overhead tube heater, but not the best with an 8ft ceiling.

 

[SSCR]

Really starting to think about using a Mr Heater 45000 btu for the main floor using propane, and electric base boards upstairs. I have a buddy that works for Cadet that has been hooking me up. I think this combo might be the ticket. The second floor is kinda of a "teepee" with the angle of walls, except the dormer, so it really shouldn't take much to get it warm up there. I could also cut vents in the floor and the Mr Heater could warm it up also.

 

[SSCR]

Really quick I'm guessing a 45,000 BTU for my size is all I need....right? 75,000 BTU seems overkill.

 

[Andamo]

My Reznor is a 60,000 Btu unit for my 24 x 36 downstairs area. The heating contractor than installed it said the 45,000 would work, but would run longer. With the 60K, he said I could cut vents in the floor and heat the 24 x 15 upstairs area with no problem. One thing I did do was to mount the thermostat on the wall farthest away from the heater. And I put a block of Styrofoam behind the thermostat so it doesn't read the outside wall temp. Again, I just have open studding.

 

[Cast Iron Nuts]

45 k reznor sealed combustion unit heater should be fine. Look at the udap model

 

[SSCR]

My Reznor is a 60,000 Btu unit for my 24 x 36 downstairs area. The heating contractor than installed it said the 45,000 would work, but would run longer. With the 60K, he said I could cut vents in the floor and heat the 24 x 15 upstairs area with no problem. One thing I did do was to mount the thermostat on the wall farthest away from the heater. And I put a block of Styrofoam behind the thermostat so it doesn't read the outside wall temp. Again, I just have open studding.

Wow I like that idea about the vents, will look into the Reznor models. Thanks guys!

 

[e-tek]

If you searched, I would imagine you ran across my feelings on heating a shop. But if not, here's a recap!
I live in Central Canada - few colder places on earth! One thing you want to consider is whether you will want to keep the shop from freeezing in winter. Gonna store any water-cooled engines? Spray cans? Anything paper (photo's on walls, posters, masking paper, books, etc) - all these things don't want to be frozen and thawed.
Reason I say this is that a system should be able to keep a shop at 36-40F all the time, then quickly get it to 60-65F for working or even 70F for hanging out. You also don't want it to cost you an arm and a leg - to install or run!
For these reasons I went with an overhead electric start natural gas unit (Reznor, Hot Dawgg, etc). It's been a great choice. I have an auto-thermostat that keeps it about 40F all the time, but it only takes 2-3 minutes to have nice warm air blowing and the heat rising.
Problem I had with radiant tubes are that they tend to heat what's in front of them - car tops, shelves, your head....as well as pour a lot of heat into the drywall right behind them. You see guys with heat-colored and even warped drywall behind them all the time!
Floor heat is a luxury but not practical in my book. Too hard/expensive to install, too slow to heat up/change temps/too finicky. Baseboard heat would cost a lot to run as your buddy said. Better use those amps for welding!
Having said ALL that, the extra floor is an added issue. For that you'd eitherwant another, smaller, unit upstairs, or else a fully plumbed forced-air system....Either way, I'd plumb the natural gas line in and across the hard - you'll never regret that!
Cheers!!
I know everyone has their faves - for their own reasons, and those are just mine. Hope you find what works best and are happy with your choice.

 

[LEVE]

I orginally planned on a pellet stove but thought that might be overkill and take too long to warm the place.

I just installed my old house Quadrafire 1000 in the garage. It takes about 30 minutes to really warm up the place. When it's 30°F outside the stove easily pushes 70°F... So far, no drawbacks. It will keep the chill off the place even in the deep cold of winter. I'm enthused about it.