New Guy Needs Some Help On High Lift Pricing

[Rubber_Duc]

Hi guys,

Been lurking for a long time and finally registered to ask my first question. I normally find what I want searching, and actually have found a lot of discussions on pricing but being that the threads were older I thought it might be benefitial to start a new one.

I'm Wanting to get a high lift conversion in 10' garage for a Challenger Lift I'm purchasing, picture below of garage. I'm getting it mainly to store a special car when not in use. My issue is what is "fair" to pay a company. I've had several quote the job but they seem all over the place and I'm not sure what to do. Normally things are cut and dry, (it costs this in parts, labor etc.) but it seems like there is no "standard" on this. I've read threads where someone pays 800 and another where a guy paid 1300 and there are even people that post on the threads where the guy paid 800 with statements like "sorry you got screwed..." or something negative like that.

So anyway I'm just wondering what a fair price is for a reputable company to install a high lift plus a new jack shaft opener for those of you who have done it recently or who may own companies that install these. The lowest Here is the quotes I've been given so far:

Company 1: $600 - Using existing everything and jerry-rigging my tracks at an angle, "ummmmm no".
Company 2: $850 - Using existing old wood door (in good shape) with new everything else and Liftmaster (small one man company not sure how good he is)
Company 3: $1050 - Same scenario as above, had a good feeling about him
Company 4: $1350 - New everything including a new lightweight door, large reputable company in town.

I just have no idea what I am suppose to spend on this stuff which is the reason I ask, and researching it only adds to the "wtf" factor lol. I would love to do it myself and if I didn't have back surgery fairly recently I'd give it a shot, but that is a bad scenario waiting to happen and I don't want to risk it which is why I need to pay a professional as much as I hate not doing something myself

Thanks for any help / guidance!

 

[bjcouche]

I modified my own doors about a year ago. I was doing both a high lift and a follow the roof pitch. I did both a 16wX12h and a 10X10. I bought a kit of parts including the track, springs, drums, and cable for the retrofit. The parts for both doors combined was $600, so I'd estimate around $400 in parts, maybe a bit less for your application. I have no idea on how much the labor would cost or how many man hours it would take to install. I would estimate though that it would take slightly less time to high lift it than it would take to install the door from scratch.
A liftmaster 8500 goes for around $400, so in parts alone you're looking at nearly $800. So take 800 and add what you think the labor rate will be and you'll come up with an estimate of what it should cost.
I did my own because nearly every door installer I called didn't even know what I was talking about, and the 1 that did wouldn't do it. This is a custom installation and will require someone who knows what they are doing. The springs have to be selected and calculated based on your high lift distance and your door weight. This is done prior to ordering the springs and drums.
At $1050, that sounds about right to me, but $1300 with a new door sounds low. My advice is to choose the door installer that seems to know the most about how to properly install it, not the largest company or the lowest bid. Even better if you can get some references to satisfied customers of people who had their doors high lifted by the installer. IF the installer can provide that, it would be a decision maker.

 

[Rubber_Duc]

I modified my own doors about a year ago. I was doing both a high lift and a follow the roof pitch. I did both a 16wX12h and a 10X10. I bought a kit of parts including the track, springs, drums, and cable for the retrofit. The parts for both doors combined was $600, so I'd estimate around $400 in parts, maybe a bit less for your application. I have no idea on how much the labor would cost or how many man hours it would take to install. I would estimate though that it would take slightly less time to high lift it than it would take to install the door from scratch.
A liftmaster 8500 goes for around $400, so in parts alone you're looking at nearly $800. So take 800 and add what you think the labor rate will be and you'll come up with an estimate of what it should cost.
I did my own because nearly every door installer I called didn't even know what I was talking about, and the 1 that did wouldn't do it. This is a custom installation and will require someone who knows what they are doing. The springs have to be selected and calculated based on your high lift distance and your door weight. This is done prior to ordering the springs and drums.
At $1050, that sounds about right to me, but $1300 with a new door sounds low. My advice is to choose the door installer that seems to know the most about how to properly install it, not the largest company or the lowest bid. Even better if you can get some references to satisfied customers of people who had their doors high lifted by the installer. IF the installer can provide that, it would be a decision maker.

Thanks so much for the response. A little more info I have now after 2 more estimates today. Both repuatable companies in the area. First guy came out and I just didn't have a good feeling about him (lots of bad language, generally unprofessional feeling). All he seemed to do was joke about how I could afford whatever b/c of the car in the garage He did seem to know what he was doing though but came in at 1600 with a new door.

The other company (company #4 above) I had a really good feeling about. The owner called me personally and talked to me for a long time about all my options. He said he would call the warehouse and see what he could get a kit together for and just run a simple formula that he has to run to make any money. He went into how he bought the business and the first few years were touch and go b/c he would not follow a formula to make sure he wouldn't lose money. I appreciated him telling me that and he called me back when he said he would and told me the following:

New everything with door: 1350

New everything old door: 1000

So he is right in line with everyone else on the old door option which I just don't think is a good option honestly. The door is old, wood and heavy as all get out and for 350 bucks doesn't make any sense to keep it to me. I'm glad you think 1350 is low so I'm assuming that is a good price then. I just want to make sure at 1350 I'm not getting screwed is all, anyone else have any cost comparisons?

 

[grommit]

You asked so here are my thoughts.
If your considering a 4 post lift. You should check your measurements again to make sure your efforts will fit your needs.
Just from looking at the pic, I think your going to be real close if your intent is to store another car under your toy car. 10 ft is not real high when you start stacking cars.
Think height of car plus 4in + - for the lift runner, plus 6in + - for the door in the raised position, plus 4-5 in + - for the lift to sit on a lock. All this height adds up quick.
I opted for a long radius track this gave me another 12 in or so of door height in the raised position. The door just clears my MG in the raised position. How about the door opener?
LHH

 

[Rubber_Duc]

see post below

 

[jstroede]

Where are you located, and what type of door does that include?

John

 

[Todd.Brock]

I bought a CHI 16ft door from PDQ in Milford Ohio. It is a 2 " insulated door, something like r-16. I paid 1100 for the door. It was 75 or 90 bucks extra for a hi lift option. The guy thought I was crazy, but it was cheap to me. What that meant was it had the proper springs, track, Etc. It took probably 2-3 weeks to order the door from CHI. All the little stickers on the doors and spring said Job: Brock or Hi lift, etc... So I know all the parts were specific to the hi lift request. It was worth it because the tracks went up at least 18 or so inches.

The installer couldn't get the tracks to line up and I said figure it out. He was trying to use existing track. I said this was all special ordered as a hi lift . He wasn't happy but made it work.
I paid 300 for the LM 3800 on amazon. This was in dec 2010

 

[Rubber_Duc]

You asked so here are my thoughts.
If your considering a 4 post lift. You should check your measurements again to make sure your efforts will fit your needs.
Just from looking at the pic, I think your going to be real close if your intent is to store another car under your toy car. 10 ft is not real high when you start stacking cars.
Think height of car plus 4in + - for the lift runner, plus 6in + - for the door in the raised position, plus 4-5 in + - for the lift to sit on a lock. All this height adds up quick.
I opted for a long radius track this gave me another 12 in or so of door height in the raised position. The door just clears my MG in the raised position. How about the door opener?
LHH

I appreciate the concern, I've checked the measurements multiple times and it should be fine according to my measurements:

Car 1: 3'10" to highest point (car to be stored)
Car 2: 4'5"

I have added a cushion inch or so to both cars measurements above which gets me to a conservative 8'3" of clearance needed on both cars + 6" for the Challenger lift ramps which is 8'9" total and that is with a cushion of a few inches again. I have a 10'2" ceiling with no obstructions (maybe a light that can be moved easily). That gives me 17" of conservative clearance when you factor in I rounded up a few inches I added to the cars which should be enough to operate the locks I would think.

As far as the track goes, it shouldn't hang more than 5" or so at most and since it is high lift and a 7' foor it will not come very far back into the garage and that would only approach the front part of the hood which is about 6" shorter than the highest so that shouldn't matter unless I'm missing something? The door opener will be the liftmaster jack shaft.

But all I'm really wondering is if the 1350 is fair and it sounds like maybe it is?

 

[Rubber_Duc]

Where are you located, and what type of door does that include?

John

Louisville, KY - Non insulated 7X16 8 panel lightweight door.

 

[bd8134]

Maybe contact Challenger and find out the heights the ramps lock at to see if they also work with your calculations.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

FYI

Garage door springs change by the weight of the door and the type of lift config.
If the spring requires changing and it's not, your opener bears the difference and contributes to early failure.

Ask me how I know.

 

[jstroede]

As far as the track goes, it shouldn't hang more than 5" or so at most and since it is high lift and a 7' foor it will not come very far back into the garage and that would only approach the front part of the hood which is about 6" shorter than the highest so that shouldn't matter unless I'm missing something? The door opener will be the liftmaster jack shaft.

But all I'm really wondering is if the 1350 is fair and it sounds like maybe it is?

For tear out, install with new 8500 opener, etc. it isn't out of line. I wouldn't say it is cheap, but it is fair. When buying a new door like that, high lift is not a big price add on. His cost for the add-on should be less than $100.

As far as the high lift goes, unless you get super crazy (which will cost you more), you are not going to get the bottom of the tracks at 5" from the ceiling. At that point you are basically talking about a 2" door being under an inch from the ceiling. That isn't happening. The base number for calculating is:

Headroom-12"=Amount of High Lift

In your case, say you have a full 3' of headroom. That leaves you 24" of high lift. You have to leave room for the shaft, springs, drums, etc. somewhere. That is going to leave your tracks 12" from the ceiling. A good installer can do a little better on a small door like that, but we can't assume the abilities of an unknown installer.

John

 

[Mister68]

I'm not a door guy but I came up with my own high lift track mod for approx $25 in material and my own labor. Just needed to add some tension to the springs.
Have a friend to give you hand and you should have no trouble getting it done.

Here's the thread, it has a few other suggestions as well.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3750659#post3750659

 

[bjcouche]

If you are buying an entire new door, then the added cost might only be about $100 to get it high lifted, and possibly slightly more in labor.
If you need the door within 2" or less from the ceiling, there are ways of accomplishing that but it takes a more skilled and knowledgeable installer and more time too. As others have stated, usually the drums and springs take up some vertical room and limit how close the door can come to the ceiling. There are 2 ways around this.
One method is to place the drums and springs behind the door instead of above it... If your high lift is high enough, the high lift will angle away from the garage wall. If it angles far enough away from the wall there may be room between the garage door and the wall to install the springs. With less than 3 feet of high lift I doubt this will allow enough room in your case.
The second method is to not install the springs on the wall above the door at all. You can, with proper installation, bracing, etc. install the shaft, springs, drums, etc. at the END of the horizontal track. There will then be a pulley at the wall to take the cable from horizontal to vertical. Think of this a a sort of hybrid between a torsion spring and extension spring door install. I've seen this method done in cases where people need to install a 8' door in a garage only initially designed for a 7' door and the inside ceiling is too low. This might be done to older garages to try to fit a high SUV through the door.
A third option is to add a slight angle to the horizontal tracks. For example, if the door is 4" from the ceiling at the door opening, you could angle the horizontal track up to be 1" from the ceiling at the far end of the track. This is what a follow the roof pitch does, but at a much steeper angle. Having a slight angel on the horizontal tracks though will require a bit more spring torque.

One final note, be sure that you will be happy with a non insulated door and take a look at some that are installed. The single wall, non insulated doors are real flimsy compared to your old sturdy wood door. The insulated doors, having an inner and outer sheet metal layer with foam sandwiched on the inside are much more rigid.

 

[Rubber_Duc]

Thanks everyone for the advice. Well the installer I chose (1350 guy) was suppose to come out today. When I arrived home for our appointment I saw color samples sitting on my electric meter outside my garage. I hate when companies do this in lieu of their appointment. So I called the guy and he explained that he had a tech in the area and he came by and measured the door from the outside, ummm ok? I already told him it was a 16X7 door so not sure what that accomplished but oh well. He said he didn't need to come out based on what his guy saw from the outside, so I don't know if this is just being lazy or accurate.

Anyway after reading some of your guys advice and speaking with the installer about how flimsy the non-insulated doors are I think I've just decided to stick with my sturdy wood door that I like the looks of. Yeah it is heavy but I see no other reason then this to upgrade the door. I don't like the looks of the new door as well (at least the one I'm willing to pay for), and I have read more than few complaints about how flimsy these dent prone doors are. I feel like I'd be paying 400 more to get a door I like less. Obviously if I upgraded the door to something nicer it would be good but a lot more money so I just don't feel it is worth it since I like my door and it is in good shape. So looks like I'm back to 1000.00 to modify my track and install the liftmaster, seems high to me based on all the diy stuff I'm seen but I'm kind of stuck with my back b/c of a recent surgery, I don't want to risk it.

Can anyone tell me of some huge advantage (besides weight wearing the equipment out faster) of buying a new door vs. keeping my nice looking wood one? If not that is the option I'm going with, thanks guys.

 

[tc-cad]

I just got a quote for $1200. Included all new track and a Lift master 8500 with two remotes and a key pad. He said they could raise the door 15".

I am in Wisconsin.