New guy trying to gauge what he's got (Project Refinish Step 0)

[jds62f]

I can post some pictures up if necessary but I thought I'd start with words and see if someone can help.

I've got a 2.5 car detached garage on a concrete slab with wood construction (siding is aluminum i think). I don't think the previous owner went too far out of his way to do anything, because the bench(es) and cabinets he built were all particle board and sagging pretty badly. Not that there's anything wrong with PB, he just didn't support it appropriately (and apparently he didn't have a level).

Anyway, I've ripped just about everything out of one half of the garage and I'm deciding how I'm going to finish things up. I'm kinda interested in putting up some drywall, but not sure if I need/should put insulation as well. Part of me thinks "its detached, what does it need insulation for?" but the other half of this garage (that I'm not remodeling) has been (kind of) finished, and it sure seems to be warmer in the winter and cooler in the summer.

Anyway, on the unfinished side, the first thing I'm trying to make out is if I have a vapor barrier. How can I tell? I can see the support walls, as they are unfinished. I'm not sure what to make of what I'm looking at though. There is some kind of flat surface between the wood support walls and the exterior siding.... If I didn't know any better I'd say it looks like drywall thats got a foil backing. Imagine you removed the drywall off an interior wall in your home... you'd be looking at the wooden framing and the backside of the drywall on the other side... thats what I'm looking at here, except what I see definitely has a silver metallic sheen to it. There are a couple of small tears and it looks like drywall underneath...

Any ideas? I can post pics later if they would help.

 

[lawfarm]

Your profile has no info, and your post doesn't list where you're at, so it's hard to know what to recommend to you. Where are you? What are your plans for the garage? Will it be heated? What's your climate?

In the absence of other information, I can only tell you that living in the midwest, insulated spaces are almost always preferred over uninsulated spaces, in all seasons of the year.

Regarding the drywall/vapor barrier question, posting a pic would be helpful.

 

[Jack Olsen]

+1 to everything lawfarm said.

 

[jds62f]

ok, profile updated.

The "kind of finished" side does have heating/cooling, but I'm not planning to add any additional air treatment to the unfinished side.

the overall plan is to have my shop be in the side that is finished right now... I will most likely refinish it because as it stands I am unhappy with the construction/finish. The unfinished side is a home and a service bay for my weekend toy. Said toy will not be driven in the winter months, although I may do a project or two during the winter (as I'd rather be driving it in the summer).

Overall plans for the unfinished side are to evaluate the current electricals and see if I want to change/modify, decide how far I'm going to go finishing the interior, and to repair a crack in the foundation and the apron. Will post pics this evening.

 

[MScott]

Personally, I wouldn't build anything without insulation and vapour barrier regardless of where you live. It will be cooler in summer and warmer in winter if you put any kind of heat in it. Looks like, since you apparently live near Chicago, your winters will be relatively cold so if you intend to do any work in the garage during the winter you will need a heat source. A garage without insulation would be almost impossible to heat.

 

[Kevin54]

Insulation will help keep things cool in the summer and warm in the winter, so really, if you are going to finish off the insides, you should put in insulation and a vapor barrier.

Now from reading your post, it sounds like you are not too familiar with a buildings structure or bones. What I would suggest is maybe pick up a book or two from Lowes, Home Depot, etc on Garages, Remodeling, and or Framing and Drywalling. Or you can get these from your local library. Reason being, and not to sound like a smartass because I don't mean it that way, but if you can't tell what type of siding is on the outer walls, what kind of sub-siding is on the walls, and whether or not you need or don't need insulation, you will need to read up on some things before you get into a bunch of trouble if you plan on doing things on a DIY basis.

There is a wealth of info on here, but it is kind of hard to give an answer without seeing some pics. If you post some up, we could probably answer your questions a lot better and steer you in a more favorable direction.

 

[lwlobo]

I know you're not really asking about electrical, but here's my .02.

If the electrical panel isn't close by or is full/undersized, upgrade or put a new subpanel in the garage/shop. Run lots and lots of circuits, extra outlets, wiring for compressor, potential welder, potential car lift, cord reel in the ceiling or wherever, garage door opener, RV hookup, etc. My biggest peeve about a shop space is if it's underwired. Separate out stuff onto individual circuit breakers as much as possible. You don't want the ice cream freezer to blow a breaker and turn off your shop fridge or disable your garage door opener. It's easiest to do all this stuff (yourself or hire it done) now before anything else is finished. Good luck!

 

[jds62f]

Ok here's some pictures. 2.5 car garage divided into two distinct sides, which here I'll just refer to as finished and unfinished.

First shot is looking out, and that thing on the left is the existing heater. Truth be told, it doesn't put out much heat, and the pilot light has trouble staying on

Here's where the power comes in:

Heres the back wall, with the a/c unit

Heres a good picture of the door that leads to the unfinished side, and something I'd like to get to the bottom of. Look at the ceiling right above the door - its very obviously sloping down from left to right. You can also tell with the different heights of the 2x4's that make the shelving

Interior shot of the unfinished side, with shiny stuff

Here's a close up of a tear in said shiny stuff

Shot of whats left of the workbench. For now its just a place to set things on occasionally

Heres a shot of the wall opposite the finished side. Its 'finished' but its definitely something I'd want to rework

Roof shot. Strangely enough, there is no indication of the sloping I noticed in the finished ceiling of the other side.

Here's two shots of a crack in need of repair

 

[Kevin54]

Not bad bones at all, and it is screamin' t be finished. As far as the heater goes, it should put out enough heat. You might want to get a heating contractor to look at it. If the pilot light keeps going out, chances are it is nothing more than a thermocouple. The heater is the type that is generally used in a mobile home, so given the size of one of them, it should keep your garage warm. But you are losing heat through the ceiling and the un-insulated walls.
The ceiling that is sloped. It looks like you have a ceiling joist that has sagged from weight, or it may possibly be broken and just not seen due to the OSB.
If it were mine, and again, not knowing your skils or access to friends, I would gut the garage out and start from scratch. Insulate all four (or three) perimeter walls and ceiling. Add a few more outlets, and get the furnace looked at. The concrete crack can be cut out and redone for minimal amount of money.
I really think that you'd be farther ahead and way happier by doing it that way, but then again, that is just the opinion of one.

 

[BPJOOP93]

gut it and start over. hows the rest of the floor look? the ceiling looks as it has good bones to it. faced insulation and drywall or blandex over it paint and a ceiling will definitly help with heating it. if the furnace doesnt heat after its all finished befreind a heating contractor and get a used home furnace and duct it where you want it.
something to start with.
how level are the walls?

 

[jds62f]

Will have to check on the walls with a level to be certain, but they appear to be straight up and down to the eye. In the shot of the roof, the joist (I'm referring to the horizontal board) has a little bit of sag to it, but it doesn't appear to be problematic (to the untrained eye).

It will be interesting to see what I find above the finished side. In addition to the sloping mystery, I fully expect to find evidence of rodents. Hopefully I don't find a broken joist... I'll have to make sure I take a look up there this weekend.

Regarding the slab, is there a ballpark figure on "minimal expense" ? This weekend I'll take some better shots of the floor. In the distant future (ie 8-10 yr plan) I'd be interested in making this a 3.5 car garage with a little more height so I could have a lift. My uneducated hope is to be able to add on to the existing slab rather than removing it and redoing the whole thing.

For the finishing, I'd like to finish the unfinished side first. It has a more niche purpose as home/operating table for the weekend toy, so I think it will be easier to come to decisions about what needs to go where. The side that is currently finished will be multi-purpose, so I'll have to consider more carefully its setup. But it will be gutted and redone, as there isn't a level shelf in the whole thing (I think the previous owner didn't have a level and maybe one leg longer than the other)

I need to establish some kind of order of operations. Right now these are the high level things on the radar..

- fix the slab
- finish the unfinished side (this includes electricals, insulation, walls, ceilings, etc)
- redo the soffit/fascia of the building (its wood and in poor shape)
- take a look above the ceiling of the finished part

 

[51rider]

I agree with Kevin54-its begging to be finished!

That said I would start from the top & work my way down with a complete refurb. Start by addressing the sagging joist & any roof issues first. For me, I'd install some timber collars at high level, bolting through the roof rafters with some M13 threaded rod, square washers on the outer faces and toothed timber jointing washers sandwiched between the timbers. If you did this all the way along the ridge line, you should be able to then get rid of the low level joists. As always though, consult a structural engineer to be certain it would be safe to do so. It would give you plenty more ceiling height.

I cannot see the photo showing the tear in the 'silver stuff' but it looks like a foil backed board of some type-this could be a vapour check board or rigid pu foam insulation. If it is the latter, you could just sheetrock over it & use the void to run power & air lines or add some batts to further increase your R rating. The ceiling definately needs some insulation & then boarding out but take the opportunity to run all the lighting conduit first so that none of it is on show. Slightly more work but gives a really clean & sharp look-especially with the vaulted ceiling you will achieve with my earlier suggestion.

If the floor is basically sound apart from those cracks, have a good look in the flooring forum. There are some excellent refurb threads & they can give you a number of crack remedies that should leave your floor ready to finish with whatever system you desire to install.

As somone else has posted, if you are not familiar with this, get some books out of the local libraray and have a good read and decide whether you are up for it or not. At least if you decide it's not for you, then you will have an idea of what the pro's are talking about and should then be able to ask questions that leave them in no doubt you know the subject & they'd better not screw up!

Good luck & keep us posted!

Oh yeah-get the heater serviced -even if just for piece of mind and to make sure you aren't getting any fumes drawn back in-that is fatal! Don't use it until this is confirmed.

 

[Falcon67]

You've got joist spacing like the older part of my garage. I would recommend building a block of straight 2x6s - about 3 screwed together - and using a couple of jacks and 4x4s to block up and level the joists, or at least get some sag out. With the jacks and blocking holding, double up the joists with a fresh 2x6 or 2x8, using screws and construction glue to mate the two together into one solid board. Leave 24 hrs and they'll be good as new. You could also add in "missing" joists to help support the roof and walls.

The silver looks like old vapor barrier/wall insulation. Looks like a good start, I'd batt the cavities with insulation and wall it up. Probe the other walls or peel off some of the OSB and see if there is insulation on the semi-finished side. If yes, I'd leave it. Taking the time to insulate the walls and ceiling will make a huge difference in temp control in there.

Looks like a good, solid and well braced building - good for you.