New guy with a reception problems

[wniemann]

Hello all,

Long time reader of this board, first time poster, lots of great ideas on here.

We are in the process of putting up a new shop on the farm. 50x60x17, all steel building. The inside side walls are lined with tin, and the ceiling is covered with the stretch fabric insulation system (Energy Saver System?? I believe thats what it's called)

Anyways, inside the building the radio reception is horrible, cell phone reception is horrible (battery drains FAST), and internet is non-existent. Right outside the door I can get a weak signal for internet from the house network that is ~300 feet away. I've read some posts but most say bury cat5 cable or are talking about 80-100 foot distances. Anything I've read on internet sites and geek forums are a little over my head.

Any ideas on how to help 1 or all 3 of these problems? Radio is easy as an external antenna I would guess. I'm familar with routers, modems, and I've heard of switches, access points, boosters etc. Just don't know what I'd need to make it work, and relatively cheap and easy.

Thanks,

Wes

 

[twenty8tudor]

I work for the phone company and being that you are 300ft away from the home you would need a pretty good router to get that far. Best bet would be to bury a shielded underground/outdoor cat 5 cable from the house to the garage. easy to wire up and put a jack in the garage i think would give you the best service..... i have seen but havent read to much about it but there is a way of running your networking over the electrical wire but i am not to up on that and not sure how great of service you would get.

If you was to put a router in the garage you could always use a cell phone booster attached to the router depending on your download speeds and type of service you have.

 

[ibedayank]

The maximum length (maximum certifiable length) for CAT 5 patch or crossover cables is 328 feet (100 meters).

Beyond that, you run the risk of signal loss and other complications.

CAT 5 Cable Company sells patch and crossover cables in any length, up to 328 feet.


you would need a direct burial rated cable not the cheaper indoor rated stuff

 

[67carl]

As mentioned above Broadband Over Power-lines may be an answer. Read this:

http://computer.howstuffworks.com/bpl.htm

 

[Fishplate]

Use a couple of Wireless Access Points as a Bridge...you can get directional antennas that make it a snap, if you can see the shop from the main building. More expensive than burying wire, but a lot less digging.

 

[BrianL]

Just check the spec on your networking device. Router, switch, etc that you're going to use. 300'+ on cat5 isn't a problem. There's also cat5e. Basic pc setup should be fine.

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

 

[Bill T]

My shop is over 300' from my home. I could not receive an internet signal with my existing wireless setup. The router I used was a N+ router. First I tried using a repeater or range extender. With the range extender, the signal was marginal. I returned the extender to Bestbuy and replaced the N+ router with the latest technology (at the time). The new router is called an "AC" router. This router works great. I am able to watch streamed videos (i.e..Youtube") at the highest resolution with no problem. Although my structure is different from yours (my shop is stick-built with 3/4" OSB and siding exterior and 1/2" sheathing interior) the AC router works great. Try it. If you buy it from one of the big-box stores, you can return it if it does not work.

 

[weldtoride]

I have similar problems with my distant concrete block building. For radio, I have an old fixed length car mast mounted outside coming in on coax.

For internet, a friend of one of my kids installed software (freeware) into an old G standard router to reconfigure it as a repeater. Works ok, better on days when a window or door is open, however. I am told this software is only available for G standard.

Next time my main router dies I am going to upgrade to a much better one.

 

[CNGsaves]

Only reliable solution is HARD-Wire with Cat 5e/6 out to the shop. Also recommend conduit the whole way with coil plastic pipe. Get something big enough to handle say Qty 3 Cat 5e/6 and RG6 CATV cable. This could be 1" sprinkler pipe but bury it deep enough it won't get tore up in future . . . . like say 24" deep or more.

For your cell phone, have to recommend Wilson Electronics. Once you have their external antenna setup, your cell signal will be amplified inside the shop.

 

[jkwilson]

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/powerli...p?id=1218956063692&skuId=8941593&st=powerline access&cp=1&lp=1

Power line access point if both buildings are on the same transformer.

 

[justsam]

+1 for CNG comments!

Do this job once and do it right because it sounds like this is a permanent install.

Using any type of wireless extender just introduces two wireless links, one from the router to extender, and the other from the extender to client. It will always be a guessing game as to what link is failing.

Power line carrier, using power lines is better, but it is a really noisy environment for radio communications and has it's own issues.

I have about a 200 foot run of flooded (term used for direct bury gel filled) cat 5 and it worked since day one and never had issues.

I have an access point in my shop that is fed from the cat 5.

I would recommend you give the access point a different SSID than your router SSID. This is the name you will see come up on your wireless client. That way you will know which device is serving the client if you are in between locations.

It does sound like you have built what in the radio design world would be called a "screen room". This is where by design you shield all incoming RF signals for R&D purposes, so you may not "see" the access point from anywhere except in your shop.

 

[Algoma56]

Would there be any cross-talk or interference issues by running, cat5, telephone wiring, and TV cable in an underground conduit? Run would only be 35-40 feet.

 

[6768rogues]

I have the same problem with one of my buildings. The building has two small windows and the phone works if I sit right in front of the window. I had a hotspot that worked if I put it on the window sill. The battery drains because the phone is looking for service. I put my phone in "airplane mode" to save the battery and enjoy the peace and quiet when I am in the building.

 

[brownbagg]

put an antenna outside

 

[justsam]

Would there be any cross-talk or interference issues by running, cat5, telephone wiring, and TV cable in an underground conduit? Run would only be 35-40 feet.

No problem. All those services are at low signal levels. Cross talk or other interference can occur when levels are much different, such as running AC power which is about 170 Volts peak with another signal that is a few volts, or millivolts.

Also the coax acts as it's own shield and telephone or Ethernet (10baseT) operates on balanced transmission line which tends to cancel unwanted induced voltages.

 

[wniemann]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm liking the power line adapter idea. Next time I'm in town I'll swing by best buy and pick up a set to try.

It is all ran off the same transformer.

I do realize that a hard wired solution is the best. Breaking out the trencher isn't an option right now.

I don't need HD video. Simple web surfing should be sufficient.

And dang, those Wilson boosters are pricey!!!

 

[zkdiesel]

I work for the phone company and being that you are 300ft away from the home you would need a pretty good router to get that far. Best bet would be to bury a shielded underground/outdoor cat 5 cable from the house to the garage. easy to wire up and put a jack in the garage i think would give you the best service..... i have seen but havent read to much about it but there is a way of running your networking over the electrical wire but i am not to up on that and not sure how great of service you would get.

If you was to put a router in the garage you could always use a cell phone booster attached to the router depending on your download speeds and type of service you have.

Everything he said to the T!
Cell booster is free from your provider if you complain enough. Works amazing

 

[vagabondmidget]

The reception booster is called a BDA (bi-directional amplifier); consists of two antennas, one outside and one in and takes the outside signal and rebroadcasts it inside and same for outside. As long as there is good signal outside and installed properly they can work great.

For network you can also look into a "point to point wireless bridge", not sure what prices are anymore but if a good system just as reliable as a hardline and better than hardline past 300' mark.

 

[sv650s]

My shop is about 120 feet away from the house. I have an open trench with a pvc conduit available, but it is in the same trench as the power line. What do you guys think - better off with the cat5 (i assume it would not have to be the driect burial type since it is in the conduit) or the "AC" router? The power is feed from the main panel thru two subpanels.

 

[zkdiesel]

My shop is about 120 feet away from the house. I have an open trench with a pvc conduit available, but it is in the same trench as the power line. What do you guys think - better off with the cat5 (i assume it would not have to be the driect burial type since it is in the conduit) or the "AC" router? The power is feed from the main panel thru two subpanels.

Mine is same setup. Both in it's own PVC conduit

 

[Falcon67]

Only reliable solution is HARD-Wire with Cat 5e/6 out to the shop.

Well, not always the only solution. We use pairs of these for overhead runs to remote buildings, longest here is .6 mile.

http://www.ubnt.com/airmax#nanostationm

These are surprisingly cheap and non-trivial to configure. Reliability has been 100% over the last 18 months. Throughput runs around 1.6 meg depending on traffic, which includes voice, data and misc. More than enough for home use. Besides, 300' between house and barn will exceed the ethernet spec so you'd need something else like line drivers converting to RS-458 or some such ($$$).

 

[wniemann]

Bought the Netear AV500 powerline adapters last night. Worked great in the house, a big negative outside in the shed.

Falcon67, your product suggestion looks interesting. Considering this thing has loads of power, do you think I would even have to mount it outside? I initially thought I'd have too buy two of them and point them at each other in a line of sight, but after reading some q&a's on amazon and some comments, I'm thinking 1 might be fine. Any big box stores carry these? It's nice to have a place to return the product if it doesn't work.

Thanks again,

 

[jameswood]

Cheap method that works good is use old router that can be flashed to ddwrt (free software) and just use "bridging". Old linksys wrt54g can be had for next to nothing and has external antennas that can be extended through structure if needed.

If needed use two and wire one to your LAN side-set up in AP mode (dhcp off) to get signal closer to the bridged area.

bg is plenty fast enough for web use.

 

[CNGsaves]

Well, not always the only solution. We use pairs of these for overhead runs to remote buildings, longest here is .6 mile.

http://www.ubnt.com/airmax#nanostationm

These are surprisingly cheap and non-trivial to configure. Reliability has been 100% over the last 18 months. Throughput runs around 1.6 meg depending on traffic, which includes voice, data and misc. More than enough for home use. Besides, 300' between house and barn will exceed the ethernet spec so you'd need something else like line drivers converting to RS-458 or some such ($$$).

Guess I should have said . . . . . only cheap and reliable method . . .

Ethernet will handle 300 ft no problem . . . . now if he actually gets to 330 ft or 350 ft, then he could be at bleeding edge. If guy can afford a big shop 300 ft from his house, he surely can afford burying a conduit between buildings for low voltage like ethernet / CATV / phone / security.

I agree that point-to-point wireless is viable solution as well. Curious what low-end consumer setup might cost in comparison ??

My experience with microwave point-to-point was job I had at manufacturing plant in El Paso and the telco vendor was proposing M/W pt-to-pt if company setup a plant across the border in Mexico !!

OP could test the 300 ft wired ethernet by just stringing the wire across the yard from house to shop and check it out.

 

[pgray007]

If you fancy a DIY solution that's cheap, google "Pringles can antenna." Yes, that's Pringles as in the chips. Basically you'd setup an antenna at your house, and another in your shop, and beam a concentrated signal between them. On the shop end, you'll also send out a witless signal for devices in the shop. Some folks have been able to send a standard wifi signal over 2 miles using this method.

While the Pringles can sounds silly, companies use wireless antennas to send signals between buildings all the time.

That said, cat5 is easy to test (just run a cable over the ground). The more robust solution is to run fiber between buildings. You'll need a switch that supports fiber on each end. This starts in the $300 range, and you're probably over a grand once you get switches, fiber interfaces, and fiber on both ends.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[nicksnothereman]

Hello all,

Long time reader of this board, first time poster, lots of great ideas on here.

We are in the process of putting up a new shop on the farm. 50x60x17, all steel building. The inside side walls are lined with tin, and the ceiling is covered with the stretch fabric insulation system (Energy Saver System?? I believe thats what it's called)

Anyways, inside the building the radio reception is horrible, cell phone reception is horrible (battery drains FAST), and internet is non-existent. Right outside the door I can get a weak signal for internet from the house network that is ~300 feet away. I've read some posts but most say bury cat5 cable or are talking about 80-100 foot distances. Anything I've read on internet sites and geek forums are a little over my head.

Any ideas on how to help 1 or all 3 of these problems? Radio is easy as an external antenna I would guess. I'm familar with routers, modems, and I've heard of switches, access points, boosters etc. Just don't know what I'd need to make it work, and relatively cheap and easy.

Thanks,

Wes

They have boosters for wifi but...the real problem is the structure itself. I would think the best way to do it is daisy chain with a booster (or run cable, or build an intermediate wired station with a wifi point between the building and your home). I mean something that goes through the structure to the outside so you can run a router or hard line inside the structure. There is no real "cheap" way of doing it and it wouldn't address the cell phone issues.

 

[vagabondmidget]

point to point can be done for as little as a couple hundred bucks (from quick google for outdoor wireless bridge), just ethernet from access point to house router and then from garage access point to a switch from there you go to PC and get a femtocell from your cell provider which will use your new internet connection. that will resolve both signal issues, well except radio!

 

[jomobco]

Use a couple of Wireless Access Points as a Bridge...you can get directional antennas that make it a snap, if you can see the shop from the main building. More expensive than burying wire, but a lot less digging.

I've done this with Engenius directional units (ENH 202) and at a distance of 100' I get on a good day (with the currently high sunspot activity) up to 15 MBPS but at times less than 1 MBPS. At night it can get up to 17 MBPS. Bury a cable. I'm on 5 acres so I don't have much interference.

Edit: Point to point under my incoming power lines.

 

[911mike]

My son set up a bridge for my shop. Just over 300 ft. Parts were just over $300.00

Go to "solid signal.com". They have a ton of options. I also installed a cell booster which made a big difference with my steel roof.

 

[Streetbu]

I used to have internet at my house that was "borrowed" from a "neighbor" hehehe Did I mention the neighbor lived across the valley on the other hill 9,870 feet from me? Yes almost 2 MILES. Simple flat panel antenna pulled the signal in VERY strong. I used this antenna IIRC.

http://www.moonblinkwifi.com/pd_19_dbi_24_ghz.cfm