New guy with some fab questions

[BigChevy17]

I know this isn't the intro section but I have more questions than an introduction. My name is Justin, I've been mig welding with a little Lincoln weldpack 3200hd for the past 3 years for a hobby on the weekends and fabbing up little projects when they come to mind. I really have a talent for it and even with the limited tooling that I was working with, I could make some pretty decent little projects. I'm waiting for the next class to start at my local trade school to get my welding certs so I can get into the industry.
I have been saving my pennies and finally have some money to spend on better equipment. I'm also very interested in the tig process and I've decided to get a miller dynasty 200DX for my tig machine, I read that the contractors kit wasn't very good so I want to piece together the extra stuff.
The foot pedal, argon tank, and flowmeter are taken care of but I need to know what torch to go with, i like the ck brand but there's about 1000 of them to choose from so what would be a good torch for me?

I also need a ground clamp, what plug should I use to plug into the ground on my machine?
Let me know if there is some little details that I will need to get started.

I'm also getting a bandsaw, the grizzly 7x12 is really appealing to me, what does everyone else think?

I don't think my little 110v Lincoln is going to keep up so how would a millermatic 211 do in a small fab shop to get me started?

And last, if you had $2000 to buy steel/aluminum for fabrication to get started. What would you buy? Lots of square tubing and angle?

Sorry for the wall of text and all the questions, I've done tons of research and these are pretty much my last questions. Thanks!

 

[ilovevocs]

I would buy a cheap 4x6 bandsaw and allocate those funds twords an upgrade to a miller 252, if you take care of it youll have it forever and will likely not outgrow it. Look for a used bandsaw in the interim and when funds become available i would upgrade. A cold cut saw / chop saw may also be worth considering in lieu of the bandsaw.

 

[dr_clyde]

For your torch, get a #20 weldtec watercooled torch with a miller coolmate 3 watercooler. Of you're running air cooled, id grab a #17 miller diamondback.

For your ground, get a tweco junior solid copper clamp.

The dynasty is an awesome welder. Should treat you good.

 

[BigChevy17]

Thanks for the replies. Now that you say that, I probably would outgrow the 211 pretty quickly. I'm going to stop by northern tool tonight and see if they have any of those jet 4x6 band saws in stock. I would like to see one before I buy it, if I like it than that will be my plan. I'm also looking at a swag portaban table and a shop saw. I want choices in cutting because I hate gaps and a good fit up just makes a better end product anyway.
Keep the input coming!

 

[kazlx]

I may be the odd man out here, but I hate my chopsaw. I would go with a band saw. Cuts are slower, but less noisy, can easily stack material and makes less of a mess.

If you have funds for a Dynasty, by all means. I would also seriously consider an HTP Invertig. A complete setup ready to go for less than a bare Dynasty. Any of the Tweco clamps are fine. I don't know how fast you would out grow a 211, but the 252 is a nice machine, you can find used 251s around here for $1500. There's not much to a mig and as long as it doesn't look hammered and welds smooth, used is a good option. My buddy has a 251 and I love that thing. So smooth, especially on .250+ wall.

There's no way I'd spend $2k in metal unless I was going to build something. I would spend $1900 on more tools and $100 on stuff to practice on until I knew what I wanted to build. Your just storing material for no reason. Trust me...after a while of building stuff, the scrap pile will build itself.

Any pics of projects you have already built?

 

[barlow]

I agree with not spending that much on materials. Trust us when we tell you what ever you buy for inventory will never be what you need for the project at hand. My local scrap yard has drop material coming in all the time and every couple months I stop by and grab a couple hundred pounds @.30 lb.

If I have a job or project I order new as needed.

 

[BigChevy17]

I sold a few things so I do have the funds for both, I ended up going with the dynasty, and piecing together the accessories. Ck210 torch and ssc foot pedal were talked about highly so I went with those and I got electrodes and filler rods and all that jazz.
After a few YouTube videos the 252 defiantly looks worth the extra cost so I got that and 80sf bottles for both.
This is ganna be a long week

I went to northern tool and was looking at there brand band saw but nobody could answer any of my simple questions and we fighting over who's "sale" it was so I left. Ill probably just get a grizzly.

I have never used an abrasive chop saw but I've done plenty of grinding so I would imagine it makes a huge mess. I think the band saw and a small potraban in a stand would be fine for me right now. If I can't get what I want done with those ill probably just buy a plasma cutter.

I can see where having alot of metal on hand would be annoying I just thought it would be nice to have some inventory for that day I woke up with an idea, I wouldn't have to run out and get materials, just build.
I will probably buy a smaller amount and use the rest for pre-planned projects.

I already know that I want a very nice welding table. That will be project #1 with the 252, probably one with holes water jetted out so I can make my own strong hand style clamps like a member on this forum did, I don't remember his name but his table really impressed me.

I don't have pics of anything that I built right now because my laptop fell off the table on to a wood floor but I might be able to salvage that hard drive and have some later. I built a full roll cage, seat brackets, custom dash, and many other odds and ends for my old samurai when I was 17, I'm 20 now btw.
I've built things as I needed them really, racks and random brackets to mount lights and stuff, a few small carts.

I really enjoy fabrication and I am very mechanically inclined so I think this would be a very good career path for me. I've read a lot on this forum and weldingweb and have learned a ton but the only way for me to really learn is to get out in the shop and do it. Between me learning in my own shop and going to welding school I think I should pick it up pretty well. I think I've watched every "weldingtipsandtricks" video ever made lol

Thanks for the input so far, it's really helped me in deciding what is best for me.

 

[kazlx]

I think that was me . If not, I had my top blanchard ground and waterjet cut. Can't go wrong with a Dynasty...I would love to have one. If you want a band saw look into an Ellis 1600. You won't need much else. The other option is a cold saw, which also cut very nice and accurately. Other people like the dry cut saws, but I have one and hate it. It's messy, not very accurate and noisy.

I have a pile of drops I buy when I find useful stuff....misc square and round tube and sheet metal and some plate...nowhere near 2k though

I can already tell you you'll want a few bottles...I have multiple 330s...80s aren't gonna cut it.

 

[zkling]

Hi Justin,
Welcome to the world of on the side fab work. I am not much older than you (mid 20's) and have been successfully running a small fab/machine shop on the side for the past 8 years. A bit of been there, done that advice or my 2¢

I didn't completely follow the Dynasty purchase, did you actually purchase it already (as in money transferred and all) or is it on the list to will purchase? That is a lot of money for someone our age to plunk down at once. Unless you need the portability or input power requirements of the inverter, I would look at the used market. Something like an old Syncrowave or Tigwave would be just fine at a much reduced cost.

Same for the mig machine. Any ~200 amp class mig machine from any of the big names will do just fine. However it does seem to be harder to find a good deal on a used mig as it does a used tig setup.

As has been mentioned above, you may want to look into a water cooled torch and cooler. Although the Dynasty 200 won't really tax an air cooled 17, over a long weld the smaller water cooled torches can be more comfortable and easier to maneuver into tight spots.



For you saw question, it really depends on what type of stock you plan on cutting. If you are mostly using hollow stock such as tubing, angle and channel, you may want to look at a cold saw. They are really nice for cutting angles cleanly and accurately.

I personally would avoid the northern horizontal saws. Look at the grizzly, or better yet the used market. I have a horizontal bandsaw and like it because I cut all kinds of stock from 1" dia, 0.065" wall tube to 5" solid steel stock. Just turn it on and let it go. However if I did a lot of work with tubing and had the money (my limiting factor), I would definitely go for a cold cut saw.

A few other things that you may want to consider for fab work would be...

A good (large) drill press
A 2x72 or wider belt sander/grinder. Great for removing mill scale and shaping.
Plasma cutter
Tubing notcher
Tubing bender

All depends on what you want to do and how much $ you have to spend.

One other thing, depending on where you get your gas bottles. You may want to look into getting bigger bottles than 80's. The bigger the bottle is the cheaper the gas is. I can easily fit a 125cf into my car and over my shoulder. At my LWS, a 125cf is literally $3 more than a 80cf to fill.

A good welding table is indispensable. Cast iron is a great welding top as it is usually very flat, spatter does not like to stick and it can take the heat. Down side is that you cannot wail on it with a hammer like you could a steel table. Great for intricate tig work though. The ultimate (for me) would be an acorn or similar full t slot table that you could build jigs on.


Finally for the stock on hand issue. I agree 100% with the other folks. Unless you really need (aka have a list of orders) don't buy stock to keep on hand. ~95% of the time you will not need what you have. Or it may work, but not be optimal for the task at hand.

All the best.

 

[cyato]

Hey Justin,

You're getting a ton of great advice from these guys! I wish the internet and forums existed when I was your age... Just to add a couple thoughts, when choosing either a horizontal bandsaw or cold saw, one feature I really value is the ability to quickly and accurately adjust miter angles. I remember my first chop saw and HF bandsaw were exciting because I was working with metal, but inaccuracy and difficulty cutting angles quickly made things frustrating. Looking for a used bandsaw or cold saw is definitely the way to go. Just FYI, we have an Acra 9" x 16" bandsaw and a Dake Cut 250 cold saw.

In general, the bandsaw will have the capacity to cut larger size materials and the cold saw can be a little more accurate and easier to deal with cutting from smaller pieces. For example, cutting a 2" x 4" tube isn't possible on our cold saw, but it's no problem for the bandsaw. On the other hand, cutting down a 3" piece of tubing down to 2 3/4" is easy on the cold saw, but almost impossible on the bandsaw. It's great having both. Don't know if I could choose one over the other. Just wanted to give you these insights to help you choose depending on what kind of work you plan on doing...

 

[BD1]

Your location makes a difference on pricing . Check craigs list for goodies too.
I have seen angle listed for above scrap prices and I beams too. Check a local steel recycler.
I got the cheap harbor freight band saw about 4 years ago ,use it about 2 hours a week and it still cuts great. It is really SLOWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You do other things while it is cutting. Mine was purchased when they were really cheap, with coupon, $120.00. Waiting for it to die to buy a real one.

The MILLER 211 and others is currently in a 15 % / 5 % REBATE program.

http://www.millerwelds.com/landing/build-with-blue/

I would go with 125 tanks. Easy to handle and load. Check ALL suppliers. Their prices are all over the place. You might even get a package on a whole bunch of goodies. Oh, go with CASH ! Show them that GREEN stuff and their eyes light up. Ask if the owner will give you a better deal with CASH.

 

[BigChevy17]

Hey zk, nice to see someone on the same page as I am! The reason I went with the dynasty is size and power consumption, running a 50 amp breaker to my shop would be pretty expensive in itself and I've read that they consume alot of energy so over a few years the savings on the electric bill should make up the difference. I want something that I won't outgrow any time soon so I decided to buy the best I could afford and get something new. I plan to have both of these machines for a very long time and could depend on working for my paycheck so i want the peace of mind that it was never abused. Just my opinion.
I tried to place my order last night but I guess my bank has a spending limit per day so I have to call and fix that and I will place the order tonight.

The cold saw looks awesome but a little bit out of my budget right now and limits me to smaller cuts so I will probably have to stick with the band saw and get one when funds allow.
I had my eye on a used drill press but that one is gone so I'm ganna keep looking, defianatly getting one.
I have seen plans for home made pipe benders and a belt sander so I think I'm going to build alot of my tools to save some money.

I would love a plasma cutter but I don't want that to be my main way of cutting things and I can't afford both right now so the bandsaw seems to win again.

 

[BigChevy17]

Is this a good deal? I can clean it up and build a stand no problem.

http://jacksonville.craigslist.org/tls/3709201615.html