New Heat install

[RWorth]

gentlemen, looking for a suggestion on type of garage heater for my shop. I'm In Mass. Shop is 26x40 wood frame insulated with a 12 ceiling. Mostly open area. I have natural gas on site. It does not freeze the plumbing with no heat for most of the week. Right now I just heat it when I use it with a 15000btu 60lb tank mounted propane heater. I'd like to go with an installed system, any suggestions?

 

[nadogail]

if you have Natural Gas available, why would you want to use Propane?

Normally, Natural Gas Service is very reliable.

A backup heating system using an alternate fuel, such as Wood or Coal, could provide heat if and when your Natural Gas Service were interrupted.

 

[dcg9381]

I'd like to go with an installed system, any suggestions?

Like traditional furnace type deal (natural gas)?

I'd think a hyperheat mini-split would be less expensive if you're doing fine on 15k of propane. Under $3k DIY. But could easily double if "installed".

You can always mount one of the Mr. Heater units.. I've got these and they do wall mount, just get someone to run the NG so you don't have to fiddle with the tank anymore. They have thermostats and oxygen detectors. Open flame and moisture are the down sides, but sounds like you're doing it this way already. Under $300.

 

[PoorUB]

Some guys like the ventless heaters, but I would not put one in a work shop.

Rinnai makes a nice wall mount heater, or you could go with a 30,000 BTU Modine or Mr Heater, but they would be over sized.

 

[ericm]

A mini split will give you heat and cooling. Depending on your electricity and gas prices the mini may cost less to run but usually gas costs less. Gas heaters often have larger BTU capacity than mini splits so they can heat a space up faster. That mostly matters if you want to turn the heat down when you're not using the shop for some days and then turn it back up when using it. Also if you open the garage doors to move cars in or out often. Though my mini splits bring the temp back up pretty well after leaving the door open for a while to move equipment in.

 

[theoldwizard1]

A mini split will give you heat and cooling. Depending on your electricity and gas prices the mini may cost less to run but usually gas costs less.

I am a big fan of mini-split, especially if you want A/C down the line. Expensive to install, but cheap to operate.

Hard to ignore natural gas. Usually inexpensive to install, especially if you can live with a vented wall mounted heater/furnace.

26x40 will be hard to heat without duct work ! It would require are least to mini-split air handler.

Propane and electric resistance are your WORST choices !

 

[dscheidt]

26x40 will be hard to heat without duct work ! It would require are least to mini-split air handler.

The thousands of spaces bigger than that heated by a unit heater in a corner would have a few doubts about that.

 

[Jackfre]

Mini split is best choice for H&C. For heat only gas install a Rinnai EX-38.

 

[JDL988]

I'll be curiously watching what you will end up doing for your shop from up here in Northeast VT. I at the moment am at a crossroad myself on figuring out what way i want to go for heating. My shop is built such as yours and about same size 28x40 with 10ft ceiling.

Been using a oversized 120000 btu (oversized) hot air oil furnace that I had got for free and looking to get into appropriate size btu and have AC.

 

[zimman]

Heat rises. Duh. We've tried to heat a 30x40 with a wood stove and fan. Failed. Good for 12-15 ft but not efficient at all. This garage had a closed 12' ceiling also. Those ceiling hung gas heaters work well at the shops I've worked at. I'd do some research on those.
Zim

Modine PDP175AE0185 175,000 BTU - Unit Heater - LP - 83% Thermal Efficiency - Power Vented - Aluminized Steel Heat Exchanger - Propeller | Ferguson Home

Save on the Modine PDP175AE0185 from Ferguson Home. Low Prices + Fast & Free Shipping on Most Orders. Find reviews, expert advice, manuals, specs & more.

www.fergusonhome.com

 

[finn]

I am a big fan of mini-split, especially if you want A/C down the line. Expensive to install, but cheap to operate.

Hard to ignore natural gas. Usually inexpensive to install, especially if you can live with a vented wall mounted heater/furnace.

26x40 will be hard to heat without duct work ! It would require are least to mini-split air handler.

Propane and electric resistance are your WORST choices !

Propane is cheaper than a mini split for me,

Gas comes only five miles of the house and shop, so that’s not an option either, although I wish it was.

 

[fitter30]

Like traditional furnace type deal (natural gas)?

I'd think a hyperheat mini-split would be less expensive if you're doing fine on 15k of propane. Under $3k DIY. But could easily double if "installed".

You can always mount one of the Mr. Heater units.. I've got these and they do wall mount, just get someone to run the NG so you don't have to fiddle with the tank anymore. They have thermostats and oxygen detectors. Open flame and moisture are the down sides, but sounds like you're doing it this way already. Under $300.

I wouldn't want a open flame they make them in natural gas. My house had them fired one up i thought they were scarry especially with kids around.

 

[RWorth]

if you have Natural Gas available, why would you want to use Propane?

Normally, Natural Gas Service is very reliable.

A backup heating system using an alternate fuel, such as Wood or Coal, could provide heat if and when your Natural Gas Service were interrupted.

You misunderstood, I am using a portable propane heater now to heat but I want to install a natural gas heater. Just wondering iif there is any new tech I should be looking for or just the run of the mill hanger, like a modine?

 

[RWorth]

Like traditional furnace type deal (natural gas)?

I'd think a hyperheat mini-split would be less expensive if you're doing fine on 15k of propane. Under $3k DIY. But could easily double if "installed".

You can always mount one of the Mr. Heater units.. I've got these and they do wall mount, just get someone to run the NG so you don't have to fiddle with the tank anymore. They have thermostats and oxygen detectors. Open flame and moisture are the down sides, but sounds like you're doing it this way already. Under $300.

You think an electric split mini would be more effeciant and cheaper to run that Natural Gas? I'm heating my house and my apartment with gas forced air for 300 a month on the budget with a couple of free months, my electric bill is over 500 a month now.

 

[RWorth]

I'll be curiously watching what you will end up doing for your shop from up here in Northeast VT. I at the moment am at a crossroad myself on figuring out what way i want to go for heating. My shop is built such as yours and about same size 28x40 with 10ft ceiling.

Been using a oversized 120000 btu (oversized) hot air oil furnace that I had got for free and looking to get into appropriate size btu and have AC.

believe it or not, in the summer, On Cape Cod, if I leave my garage door closed my shop stays cool all day, I have no idea why, but the floor is always cold. So I have no need for AC, just heat.

 

[RWorth]

Heat rises. Duh. We've tried to heat a 30x40 with a wood stove and fan. Failed. Good for 12-15 ft but not efficient at all. This garage had a closed 12' ceiling also. Those ceiling hung gas heaters work well at the shops I've worked at. I'd do some research on those.
Zim

Modine PDP175AE0185 175,000 BTU - Unit Heater - LP - 83% Thermal Efficiency - Power Vented - Aluminized Steel Heat Exchanger - Propeller | Ferguson Home

Save on the Modine PDP175AE0185 from Ferguson Home. Low Prices + Fast & Free Shipping on Most Orders. Find reviews, expert advice, manuals, specs & more.

www.fergusonhome.com

Zimman, just for your info, I"m using a small propane for heat now, and I installed 2 6" metal pipes one in each opposing corners of the shop, they are open about 6" from the ceiling, and go down to about 3' from the floor with a 45 degree down, and I put 6" draft inducer fans in each. They work supper. I have a loft and it used to be freezing on the floor and super hot in the loft, now it's nice

 

[dcg9381]

You think an electric split mini would be more effeciant and cheaper to run that Natural Gas? I'm heating my house and my apartment with gas forced air for 300 a month on the budget with a couple of free months, my electric bill is over 500 a month now.

Someone gonna throw down the mini-split spreadsheet and you can figure it out based on your costs...
Electricity bills vary for lots of reasons. Insulation, SEER, cost per kWh. We mainly cool here, just a few times a year that I need to heat and even fewer where I need to supplement with propane in the shop.

NG is generally more economical than propane as delivery is baked in.

For me, the mini-split is more efficient as I pay about .14 per kWh. That is, until my mini-spit goes out of it's efficiency range (cold) and then it produces very little heat... So I switch to propane.

 

[nadogail]

Every one of us has a unique situation, my photovoltaic solar panels generate more electricity than I use.

I may replace my natural gas water heater with an electric one when it eventually fails.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Propane is cheaper than a mini split for me,

Curious. How did you calculate that ?

 

[theoldwizard1]

You misunderstood, I am using a portable propane heater now to heat but I want to install a natural gas heater. Just wondering iif there is any new tech I should be looking for or just the run of the mill hanger, like a modine?

It will NEVER provide evenly distributed heat is a shop that size !

 

[theoldwizard1]

believe it or not, in the summer, On Cape Cod, if I leave my garage door closed my shop stays cool all day, I have no idea why, but the floor is always cold. So I have no need for AC, just heat.

Not really surprising, IF you have decent insulation in the ceiling (against the roof) and you do not have a lot of windows.

Your floor probably stay around 55F (+/- 5F) all year.

 

[finn]

Curious. How did you calculate that ?

Propane is $1.89/gal (from memory). electricity ie $.29/kwh, COP of a Mitsubishi hyper at low temperatures is 1.4 ( although higher at warmer temperatures).

Propane boiler is 92 or 93% efficient, and paid for, although I also use the 82% hanging heater if I’m there in the winter, which I’m not. ( although I can see snow at the top of Mt Lemon here in Tucson since they got 8” up there at 7500’ yesterday.) The building has about 2700 sf of heated shop area, A 48k btu Mitsubishi hyperheat runs $17-20 k installed, according to AI..

That’s probably about right based on what I paid for a much smaller one for the hyper we installed in the house around eight or ten years ago. The payback isn’t there. Plus, I’d have to buy a new water heater since a mini doesn have that capability, so there’s another $1k for an electric.

Just doesn’t pencil out for me.

Here in Az, it’s a different story. Propane, I think is higher, electricity is much cheaper, cop is higher since the minimum temperatures are normally above freezing…yada, yada.

 

[ericm]

Two Mitsubishi 24k mini splits cost me about $9k installed last year. Maybe the 48k unit costs more than 2 24ks. I wanted two for redundancy and air flow. For us it's propane or electricity. We are too far out for gas. Power from the power company used in a mini split is much cheaper than propane for heat. So far we're paying less than half what we paid in California where we used propane for heat. Yes the new house is more efficient but it's colder here, the house is bigger and I'm heating 2240 sq ft of shop that I didn't have there. We also have solar though it remains to be seen if it will provide enough for the house and the shop.

Google "Maine heating costs spreadsheet" to find it, then change the cost and efficiency values to suit your location and proposed equipment.

 

[PoorUB]

Propane is $1.89/gal (from memory). electricity ie $.29/kwh, COP of a Mitsubishi hyper at low temperatures is 1.4 ( although higher at warmer temperatures).

Wow! That is a real KWh price! Yep, propane is a lot less money.

 

[finn]

Two Mitsubishi 24k mini splits cost me about $9k installed last year. Maybe the 48k unit costs more than 2 24ks. I wanted two for redundancy and air flow. For us it's propane or electricity. We are too far out for gas. Power from the power company used in a mini split is much cheaper than propane for heat. So far we're paying less than half what we paid in California where we used propane for heat. Yes the new house is more efficient but it's colder here, the house is bigger and I'm heating 2240 sq ft of shop that I didn't have there. We also have solar though it remains to be seen if it will provide enough for the house and the shop.

Google "Maine heating costs spreadsheet" to find it, then change the cost and efficiency values to suit your location and proposed equipment.

I went through all the math when I converted my old oil boiler to a new propane eight or ten years ago. I considered a mini split or electric boiler.

propane won. We prebuy so we’re locked in. I have no idea what the spot price is today..

The two Mitsubishi mini splits we have in the houseare mostly used for cooling plus heating one room, with occasional heating in the shoulder season when slow response radiant doesn’t adapt well to temperature swings.

ACcusecis pretty light because of the proximity to Lake Superior.

Propane spiked one year, but has stayed relatively steady overall. Electric has steadily climbed. No federal subsidies via hydro projects here.

I think our propane comes from Canada, so it will likely climb, but I won go there.

 

[Bert_]

It will NEVER provide evenly distributed heat is a shop that size !

26x40 is not a large space. People heat buildings many times that size with a single hanging heater. These buildings are wide open so plenty of room for air to circulate naturally. I have no idea how you figure that it would be a problem.

I was just in a shop the other day. Probably about 40x60. Has one hanging heater mounted in the center of the back wall. Does a fine job.

 

[pcmeiners]

Propane is $1.89/gal (from memory). electricity ie $.29/kwh, COP of a Mitsubishi hyper at low temperatures is 1.4 ( although higher at warmer temperatures).

Just ran it on the spreadsheet, with Finn's numbers, propane and an efficient mini HP running costs were within pennies. Natural gas appears cheaper but his price for NG was not given by Finn, thus used the national average price I could find, which does not seem correct.
As a note getting correct utility fuel prices in 2026 is difficult as data examples vary quite a bit thanks to the affects of the government shutdown.

HEAT-CALC-Vsn-D_1-09.xls

 

[RWorth]

I have decided to go with a gas hanger, according to the all knowing internet I need between 40 and 60,000 btu's, but since I do not heat it round the clock I decided to go with an 80,000btu unit. Right now unless anyone thinks they are NFG, I am going with a , r Heater Big Maxx MHU80NG unit with a horizontal vent and a wifi thermostat so I can warm her up from the comfort of my office.

 

[pcmeiners]

80kBTUs, ? Heat my 30x36 standard insulation garage with a 12k mini-split. I could see a 36k for very fast heat. In my last house I heated a 3 floors 1600 sqft house with a 75k gas boiler. If you had no insulation at all then an 80k

 

[mm08822]

80000 btus is BIG! You dont need that. I hope it has a modulating gas valve, b/c it will be needed.

Heating air is one thing, getting the temperature of everything in the space is another. That takes time and a bigger heater won't change that.

 

[logical]

For a hanging power vented NG heater, 45k is plenty for your building. Reznor is worth looking at.

 

[PoorUB]

I have decided to go with a gas hanger, according to the all knowing internet I need between 40 and 60,000 btu's, but since I do not heat it round the clock I decided to go with an 80,000btu unit. Right now unless anyone thinks they are NFG, I am going with a , r Heater Big Maxx MHU80NG unit with a horizontal vent and a wifi thermostat so I can warm her up from the comfort of my office.

80,000 BTU is too much, less than half of that would heat it, unless the place is poorly insulated. I might put a 30,000 BTU in there, but no larger than 45,000 BTU.

 

[PoorUB]

26x40 will be hard to heat without duct work ! It would require are least to mini-split air handler.

Why?

I heat a 24x38 without duct!

 

[theoldwizard1]

I heat a 24x38 without duct!

Do you feel you are getting EVEN distribution ?

Then again, that might not be a priority !

 

[8pack]

I have almost exactly the same situation as you. My ceiling are lower at 9.5ft. I was running propane bullet/floor heaters as well and it was just not healthy or safe.

The most cost effective solution for me was a vented Hot Dawg Heater. I installed it myself to the ceiling to save money and then the plumber came in and hooked it up. If I had paid them total install cost was around $5k.

My garage heats from 32 to 57-60 in about an hour. If yours is well insulated it will go quicker. I put a fan in the far corner opposite the heater angled up to circulate air more effectively.

It's simple, cost effective and will get you what you are looking for.