New Home Build

[Foreman05]

Hey everyone just wanted to make a quick post to see what I’m forgetting or just not thinking about.

I am starting the process of building a house with a builder. Made the easy decision to supersize my garage. It is going from a 3 car 30x22 to 36x22 and an extension on the third stall to extend 48 feet deep overall and 14 feet wide, L shaped overall. Total sq footage approx 1100 sq ft.

The garage will be insulated and finished with Sheetrock, that’s why I am trying to get it all figured out now.

Electrical
I’m thinking standard outlets spaced every 12 feet.
20 amp necessary?
Switched outlets on the ceiling for lights.
50 amp 240 outlet, I don’t have a welder yet but wouldn’t mind one down the road.
Sub panel in the garage necessary?

Lighting
Found the 10 pack of 8 foot led lights on Amazon for $180, seem to have great reviews. Probably need 14 of those lights. Just found the UFO lights from hyper lite that seem cool too. Ceiling height not determined yet, we’ll see how the lot grades out but should be 10-14 feet tall.

Plumbing
I’m want a deep sink in there for doing all the things I’d need it for without going into the house.

Floor
Looking at epoxy kits DIY style, professional install here would be more than I’d like to pay.
Probably add a floor drain.

Piping in natural gas for a Mr heater 50,000 btu ceiling mounted heater.

Anything you’d do differently or that I am forgetting?

Thanks!

 

[Sumboodie]

Floor heat and don't bother with expoxy if you are welding, it'll just ruin it.

22ft isn't deep enough for a truck if you want to have stuff along the wall and walk behind it with the door closed.
Figure a truck being near 20ft long, so you'd want 6-8ft more than that to have comfortable space at both ends.

 

[35k0]

I would do 20 amp outlets and stagger the runs. 15 vs 20a will not break the bank.
Also, definitely put the 50amp in now, then you don't have to fart around with exposed conduit later.
Wash tub is also a great idea, I just installed one in my garage and I love it.
I put a toilet in mine as well (I'm detached though) but that is nice too

 

[dave*99]

Empty conduit from garage sub panel to a few locations

EV charging?
Air compressor circuit?
Mini split?
Wi-Fi
Speakers
Air lines
Winning lottery ticket
Lift circuit

22’ is not deep enough.

 

[ericm]

I'd put in wiring for at least one EV charger. It's cheaper to do it now than to retrofit. Even if you're not an owner or fan now, like me, it's future proofing.

If it was me I'd insulate the slab, walls and ceiling and put in a mini split. Unless you have unusually cheap gas and expensive electricity it's cheaper to run than gas heat and you get A/C in the summer.

I currently have a 24' deep garage with cabinets and workbenches on the back. I don't even try to pull my Tundra all the way in. A 3/4 ton wouldn't even get in the 7' door. Put in 8' high doors at least.

I'd strive for a 12' high ceiling in the big bay, or better, 12'6". Just about all two post lifts except extended height models will fit under that.
If you might put in a lift, wire for it and also make sure the slab is thick enough. Most lift manufactures require at least 4". If your "4 inches" is the height of a 2x4 on edge then it's not enough. Same if the base rock is a little tall where the lift goes. Specing 5" should get you at least 4".

I'd put in 15 or 20a quad outlets every 4' where you plan to have your workbenches. You can get by with fewer outlets in the parts that are dedicated car storage.

 

[bad466]

24 feet is the minimum depth I would go.

 

[WildBill]

My shop is 24ft deep and I really wish had done 26ft, it ***** when I pull my F150 xtra cab longbed in to work on it, that thing is 21-22ft long and its tight.

 

[duneslider]

When I built my house I did the garage 26' deep and am happy with that. I don't have a big truck but I can pull my expedition in with the bike rack on and shut the door which is nice for me. 22' deep would be rough unless you only plan to have little cars. 30' wide seems tight too? I did a 18x9 door and a 10x9 door. I'm guessing you have a 16 and 8? I find the 9' doors a great size. Again, I can pull in my expedition with the bikes on and a roof top box with room to spare.

I was limited due to the lot with how wide I could get so I went 38' wide and am happy with that but would have liked a little more. Due to set backs, I could only get 34' deep on the 3rd car side and yes wish I could have gotten more but overall better than the 20x22 2 car I had previously.

I am adding a subpanel to my garage, I should have done it during the build. I thought a 40amp/220 would be enough but it's not really. It would have cost almost the same just to put the subpanel in originally and way less than doing it now. I have a good amount of 15amp plugs throughout the garage and just one run of 20amp in the "shop" area of my garage.

 

[WildBill]

Maybe run ethernet cabling to the garage so you can put an access point/router/mesh dohookie out there, even attached to the house might be spotty wifi coverage. Also if doing a sound system and/or tv out there make sure you run wiring for them.

 

[cad70]

22' is not nearly enough depth. If anyone has, or will have, a full size pickup truck, there will be no room for anything in front of it.

 

[Adaylate]

If you are building with 2x6 walls, your inside measurement will only be 21'.
Good luck!

 

[dcg9381]

I’m thinking standard outlets spaced every 12 feet.

Have your electrician "alternate" outlets on two breakers and share a neutral.

20 amp necessary?

It is for me.

50 amp 240 outlet, I don’t have a welder yet but wouldn’t mind one down the road.
Sub panel in the garage necessary?

Most modern homes have 14-50R outlets which can be used by a welder, an EV, or an RV.
In a garage that large, I use two sub panels to split the runs, but it's up to your electrician.

Floor
Looking at epoxy kits DIY style, professional install here would be more than I’d like to pay.
Probably add a floor drain.

We have lots of flooring vendors. I've been using polyurea, I like it better than epoxy and it costs less.

Piping in natural gas for a Mr heater 50,000 btu ceiling mounted heater.

Air lines? Ventilation? You can really never have too much power in the garage.

 

[03ranger]

A 24 depth garage you can park a full size truck in and have no room left over, I'd go a minimum of 26 foot. Electrical: 12 foot spacing is ok. but double the amount of outlets. Go from a single duplex outlet to double duplex. The extra cost is minimal and you won't have use power strips. Go all 20amp circuits, its not the much extra cost and you won't blow breakers as often. Outlets for the welder, put in two or three in various places.

 

[John in OH]

Lots of good suggestions already provided above.

26 ft. depth minimum (inside dimension)
Outlets are cheap. Use 20 amp quads on 6 ft. spacing.; multiple circuits.
Include coax cable for TV and have builder install blocking for TV mount.
Separate permanent overhead lights on multiple switches so you don't have to turn on all lights at once.
Install several extra outlets in ceiling so you can add future task lighting.

 

[dave*99]

Receptacle in ceiling for an extension cord reel. Trouble light reel etc.
Separate from your lighting circuit.

 

[dave*99]

Include coax cable for TV

Or Cat6 or WiFi if you use streaming/smart TVs.
Cable boxes are fading away in some regions.

 

[John in OH]

Good point! I ran both coax and Cat6 ... important point is to plan and install now for the future!

 

[dave*99]

Good point! I ran both coax and Cat6 ... important point is to plan and install now for the future!

Agreed. I built a new house in 2021. I ran coax for an FM antenna and a cable modem only.

Cat6 everywhere and 4 WiFi hot spots.
All TV locations have a recessed receptacle and 2 Cat6 jacks. No coax

POE security cameras, NVR. IT closet with UPS, 48 port switch, NAS, cellular backed security system, VOIP phone connection.

The thing I learned is the future is fiber instead of Cat6. Some folks install dark fiber optic cables anticipating they will replace Ethernet.

I guess I’m not ready for the future.

 

[Foreman05]

Wow! Thanks for all the great input. I am building in southern Kansas so i am not super worried about being frozen, for the heat I just want 60-ish in the winter. Might be wishful thinking but I am hoping the big chunk of concrete will keep it tolerable in the summer without the mini split but I am already thinking about it.

To be clear here the third stall will be about 14x48, the back half will be where the "work" goes on.

Measured the rigs, my wife has an explorer, it's just under 17 feet and my f150 is right at 20. the truck will be tight but I will park that on the 50 foot side so it won't be an issue. I will ask what the cost would be to add 2 feet to the 21-foot deep part. I am in a subdivision so I have setbacks to deal with as well. I don't want to crush my backyard, it's already smaller being I bought a cut-de-sac lot.

Floor heat and don't bother with expoxy if you are welding, it'll just ruin it.

22ft isn't deep enough for a truck if you want to have stuff along the wall and walk behind it with the door closed.
Figure a truck being near 20ft long, so you'd want 6-8ft more than that to have comfortable space at both ends.

Good call, I don't want to ruin a new cool floor, odds are I won't weld or weld that much but will consider.

I would do 20 amp outlets and stagger the runs. 15 vs 20a will not break the bank.
Also, definitely put the 50amp in now, then you don't have to fart around with exposed conduit later.
Wash tub is also a great idea, I just installed one in my garage and I love it.
I put a toilet in mine as well (I'm detached though) but that is nice too

I thought the wash tub would be great too.

Empty conduit from garage sub panel to a few locations

EV charging?
Air compressor circuit?
Mini split?
Wi-Fi
Speakers
Air lines
Winning lottery ticket
Lift circuit

22’ is not deep enough.

Thanks for the conduit idea, I think I will do that for a future mini split.

I'd put in wiring for at least one EV charger. It's cheaper to do it now than to retrofit. Even if you're not an owner or fan now, like me, it's future proofing.

If it was me I'd insulate the slab, walls and ceiling and put in a mini split. Unless you have unusually cheap gas and expensive electricity it's cheaper to run than gas heat and you get A/C in the summer.

I currently have a 24' deep garage with cabinets and workbenches on the back. I don't even try to pull my Tundra all the way in. A 3/4 ton wouldn't even get in the 7' door. Put in 8' high doors at least.

I'd strive for a 12' high ceiling in the big bay, or better, 12'6". Just about all two post lifts except extended height models will fit under that.
If you might put in a lift, wire for it and also make sure the slab is thick enough. Most lift manufactures require at least 4". If your "4 inches" is the height of a 2x4 on edge then it's not enough. Same if the base rock is a little tall where the lift goes. Specing 5" should get you at least 4".

I'd put in 15 or 20a quad outlets every 4' where you plan to have your workbenches. You can get by with fewer outlets in the parts that are dedicated car storage.

Still waiting to figure out the ceiling height. As it sits now we will be installing 16x8 door and a 12x8 door. If we end up with 12+ foot ceilings i will ask about 9 foot doors, I am definitely not opposed to taller doors.

When I built my house I did the garage 26' deep and am happy with that. I don't have a big truck but I can pull my expedition in with the bike rack on and shut the door which is nice for me. 22' deep would be rough unless you only plan to have little cars. 30' wide seems tight too? I did a 18x9 door and a 10x9 door. I'm guessing you have a 16 and 8? I find the 9' doors a great size. Again, I can pull in my expedition with the bikes on and a roof top box with room to spare.

I was limited due to the lot with how wide I could get so I went 38' wide and am happy with that but would have liked a little more. Due to set backs, I could only get 34' deep on the 3rd car side and yes wish I could have gotten more but overall better than the 20x22 2 car I had previously.

I am adding a subpanel to my garage, I should have done it during the build. I thought a 40amp/220 would be enough but it's not really. It would have cost almost the same just to put the subpanel in originally and way less than doing it now. I have a good amount of 15amp plugs throughout the garage and just one run of 20amp in the "shop" area of my garage.

I think the sub panel is probably a good idea after hearing all the suggestions. I like the idea of 15 amp in the parking areas and 20's in the back part of the shop.

Maybe run ethernet cabling to the garage so you can put an access point/router/mesh dohookie out there, even attached to the house might be spotty wifi coverage. Also if doing a sound system and/or tv out there make sure you run wiring for them.

Cat 6 will be going in and I will have a wifi access point. might as well right!

If you are building with 2x6 walls, your inside measurement will only be 21'.
Good luck!

2x4 walls, I should have mentioned I am located in southern Kansas.

Have your electrician "alternate" outlets on two breakers and share a neutral.

It is for me.

Most modern homes have 14-50R outlets which can be used by a welder, an EV, or an RV.
In a garage that large, I use two sub panels to split the runs, but it's up to your electrician.


We have lots of flooring vendors. I've been using polyurea, I like it better than epoxy and it costs less.


Air lines? Ventilation? You can really never have too much power in the garage.

I will look into 14-50R outlets, you can run a 240v welder on that?

Receptacle in ceiling for an extension cord reel. Trouble light reel etc.
Separate from your lighting circuit.

Good call there, i will add that.

Or Cat6 or WiFi if you use streaming/smart TVs.
Cable boxes are fading away in some regions.

Yup, cat 6 inbound, no cable though, I will bring the cable in the mechanical room but leave it there.

 

[thammel]

As they all say 22' isn't deep enough. Mine is 28' and I wish it was 32' deep. I put in a powder room - wish I'd added a shower. It would be nice to clean up out there and not bring my mess into the house. Do a mini split heat pump. You will be glad to have AC on those hot days.

 

[thammel]

One more thing....I did armorpoxy 100% solids 3 coat epoxy on my floor. Did it myself. That's the way to go. I love it!

 

[JohnKal]

Provisions for a future lift?

 

[Foreman05]

One more thing....I did armorpoxy 100% solids 3 coat epoxy on my floor. Did it myself. That's the way to go. I love it!

That’s spendy but looks like a better product than the rustoleum boxes. It will probably cost me about $1400.

A garage lift might come further down the road, currently don’t have a ton of use for one at the moment and I have access to a shop with a few lifts in it if needed. It is always nice to just step into the shop instead of driving down the road though. My uncle steered me towards a 4 post when I get one.

 

[Foreman05]

Agreed. I built a new house in 2021. I ran coax for an FM antenna and a cable modem only.

Cat6 everywhere and 4 WiFi hot spots.
All TV locations have a recessed receptacle and 2 Cat6 jacks. No coax

POE security cameras, NVR. IT closet with UPS, 48 port switch, NAS, cellular backed security system, VOIP phone connection.

The thing I learned is the future is fiber instead of Cat6. Some folks install dark fiber optic cables anticipating they will replace Ethernet.

I guess I’m not ready for the future.

Dave, any tips or things you wish you would have done differently on the network? I plan on installing POE cameras as well, wiring Cat6 everywhere with a switch and the NVR. Not really sure what else to do at that point, I kinda hope that's enough.

 

[dave*99]

Dave, any tips or things you wish you would have done differently on the network? I plan on installing POE cameras as well, wiring Cat6 everywhere with a switch and the NVR. Not really sure what else to do at that point, I kinda hope that's enough.

I can’t think of anything I missed. There are spare Cat6 runs to every camera. I have a video doorbell on the system too. Even if you know no one will push that button, it does add another camera close to a point of entry.

Every network drop is 2 to 4 cables. No singles. Just in case there is a failure….

Also the IT closet is in a conditioned space.
There is an equipment rack to hold the electronics. Dedicated power too.

The garage door openers are Chamberlain WiFi controlled units with battery backup and the alarm system app runs them.

I also have a number of Leviton Smart switches to control lighting and some WiFi controlled outdoor receptacles for Christmas lights.

Thermostats are on WiFi. Including the mini split in the workshop.

Consider any needs for landscape lighting and irrigation systems too.

 

[Foreman05]

I added the doorbell Ethernet drop to the list. Do you think 1000 feet of cable is enough to wire a normal sized house with Ethernet drops in the 5 bedrooms/2 tv rooms and a camera on each corner of the house? Sounds a little short in my head now.

 

[dcg9381]

I will look into 14-50R outlets, you can run a 240v welder on that?

Short answer: YES.

I added the doorbell Ethernet drop to the list. Do you think 1000 feet of cable is enough to wire a normal sized house with Ethernet drops in the 5 bedrooms/2 tv rooms and a camera on each corner of the house? Sounds a little short in my head now.

I have nearly a mile of CAT6 in my house, but I'd expect 1k feet to be a little short for 11 drops. This is really really cheap to drop in, so do it now. Not just where you want cameras, but anywhere you want access points (wifi). Drop it all back to a central location. My cameras are all wired in red CAT6, TVs in black, everything else in blue. You can "trace" the wires later (easily) and terminate them at some future time.

If you are doing external cameras, consider the "view" from each camera and make sure you have enough drops to prevent blind spots.

 

[dave*99]

I added the doorbell Ethernet drop to the list. Do you think 1000 feet of cable is enough to wire a normal sized house with Ethernet drops in the 5 bedrooms/2 tv rooms and a camera on each corner of the house? Sounds a little short in my head now.

I believe my Hik-Vision video doorbell runs on WiFi. Is has a traditional transformer and chime.

As for 1000' of Cat6 for a whole house, well no.
I have 2 office/desk locations in the house (one for me and one for my wife) there are 4 drops at each desk.

2 drops at each POE camera (the spare is unterminated)
2 at each TV
2 at each Home theater receiver
I have 4 WiFi access points and 2 extra junction boxes with Cat6 in case the locations had to move for better signal. (They didn't)
Also wired motion detectors, door alarm switches, window switches on garage windows.

All Cat6 are marked with their termination location.

As for the wiring process, it goes like this. If you need 4 drops at one location, set up 4 boxes of wire. Grab 4 cables and pull to the destination. Repeat. It's common to see way more than 4 boxes in play in a big install.

This photo was taken after the big stack of 1000' rolls was removed. It adds up quick.

 

[thammel]

That’s spendy but looks like a better product than the rustoleum boxes. It will probably cost me about $1400.

A garage lift might come further down the road, currently don’t have a ton of use for one at the moment and I have access to a shop with a few lifts in it if needed. It is always nice to just step into the shop instead of driving down the road though. My uncle steered me towards a 4 post when I get one.

Check out their sales. I bought my armorpoxy on sale. They also may give discounts to Garage Journal people..

 

[Foreman05]

Check out their sales. I bought my armorpoxy on sale. They also may give discounts to Garage Journal people..

Good to know I will keep an eye out.

Talked to the builder, he can add the feet to the front of the garage no problem however, it will eat up equal distance in the backyard due to set back requirements in the subdivision. I will drive my wife’s rig over to the model home, it has the regular 3 car garage so I can see what I’m dealing with.

 

[Foreman05]

I believe my Hik-Vision video doorbell runs on WiFi. Is has a traditional transformer and chime.

As for 1000' of Cat6 for a whole house, well no.
I have 2 office/desk locations in the house (one for me and one for my wife) there are 4 drops at each desk.

2 drops at each POE camera (the spare is unterminated)
2 at each TV
2 at each Home theater receiver
I have 4 WiFi access points and 2 extra junction boxes with Cat6 in case the locations had to move for better signal. (They didn't)
Also wired motion detectors, door alarm switches, window switches on garage windows.

All Cat6 are marked with their termination location.

As for the wiring process, it goes like this. If you need 4 drops at one location, set up 4 boxes of wire. Grab 4 cables and pull to the destination. Repeat. It's common to see way more than 4 boxes in play in a big install.

This photo was taken after the big stack of 1000' rolls was removed. It adds up quick.

Dave thanks for all the info, looks like I better get to buying some cables!!

 

[Foreman05]

Well after some debate with myself and a trip to the model home I decided to extend to 26’. Wife’s explorer fits currently but with the entry stairs and some breathing room I think it makes sense to push it out that 4’. I won’t miss what I didn’t have in the back yard but I could absolutely be annoyed having to scoot around vehicles. Thanks for all the advice thus far!

 

[Sumboodie]

Receptacle in ceiling for an extension cord reel. Trouble light reel etc.
Separate from your lighting circuit.

That or use the door opener outlet.

 

[CraigStu]

Talk to the builder about the floor. I don't know the process but both our garage and basement have a smooth finish that is various shades of grey. I 'think' they keep it wet as it sets but don't know for sure. Anyway it works out great w/ absolutely no dust, and, for me, it looks fine. It's a garage. I maybe should have done a sealer before we moved in because spilled oil will leave a stain no matter how fast I hit it w/ brake cleaner and rag. Otherwise it is a perfect floor and cost zero. Seeing where you live heat is probably more important that AC. I heat w/ one of these run off a BBQ propane tank but I don't work 10hrs per day more like 2-3 hours at a time. It is inexpensive and 97% efficient. Use it to heat your work area not the entire garage.
https://www.globalindustrial.com/p/...source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=[ADL] %5BPLA%5D %5BtROAS%5D (HVAC %26 Fans - Heaters) - {T0}&utm_term=4583108123626164&utm_content=(HVAC %26 Fans - Heaters)&adlclid=bb0214506082167f20e0724abdd57a4a
I cool w/ a window AC unit. You won't drop the whole garage to 72F but you can drop the humidity a bunch and an oscillating fan will spread that around. Again work area, not entire garage.

 

[dave*99]

Read up on a Mr Cool DIY heat pump. Lots of GJ folks have had success with them. Consider pre wiring for one and install it later.

https://mrcool.com/wp-content/dox_repo/mc-diy-4-br-en-01.pdf

 

[jollygreengiant]

Good call on going deeper, you won't regret it. My garage is 27' deep (28' outside) and it's so nice to have room around a pickup.

12' between outlets is fine in the parking stalls but not for working areas. I'd do 6' at most, ideally quad outlet boxes with the outlets in each box on 2 different circuits.

Install a good exhaust fan, especially since it's attached to the shop.

A floor drain in the parking area is a must IMO.

If your working areas will abut the house walls, pay extra attention to sound deadening in those walls.

Look into fire detection/alert systems. Loosing your shop to a smouldering ember or rag that combusts is bad enough, but your house being at risk is exponentially worse.

 

[WisJim]

I built a new garage/shop a couple of years ago. After a lot of thought, I put in a 240 v circuit for car charging in the garage part, another just outside the garage for future welder use or whatever might occur, both 120 and 240 volt circuits throughout the shop, with 120 volt 20 amp outlets every 4 feet, alternating circuits, and 240 volt outlets every 8 feet. Extra 240 volt at one end of the shop for possible future heat or mini split. And I wish I had put in a couple more 120 volt circuits so that I could put a shop freezer or refrigerator out in the garage on it's own breaker. And I found that the building is well insulated enough so I can heat it with a 1500 watt milk house heater, so a circuit for that would have been nice also. Put in more circuits with more outlets than you think you will need.

 

[Foreman05]

I don’t really know anything about mini splits. Are they really that efficient over a natural gas heater in the winter? I plan to always keep the garage about 40 in the winter. In south Kansas that’s usually not to hard but last year we had a ton of cold days. I am just planning to have to heat it Nov-Feb for sure. For cooling I have one of those portable ac units on wheels, it does ok but clearly won’t be big enough to cool 1100 sq ft.

Good call on the exhaust fan, I will look into a window type unit. Might look into a window ac unit too.

 

[dcg9381]

I don’t really know anything about mini splits. Are they really that efficient over a natural gas heater in the winter?

Ugh-oh, don't ask that or someone is going to send you the spreadsheet!

Course, it depends on your cost of electricity and cost of natural gas, but the general answer seems to be "yes" (for regions with sane electricity prices). That being said, as it gets colder, heat pumps (including mini-splits) lose efficiency and we switch the entire house over to LPG if it goes below 30 degrees outside (our heat pumps are not cold-weather efficient).

I plan to always keep the garage about 40 in the winter. In south Kansas that’s usually not to hard but last year we had a ton of cold days. I am just planning to have to heat it Nov-Feb for sure. For cooling I have one of those portable ac units on wheels, it does ok but clearly won’t be big enough to cool 1100 sq ft.

I don't think most mini-splits will allow you to set the temp that low.. Just fyi.

 

[ericm]

Ugh-oh, don't ask that or someone is going to send you the spreadsheet!

https://www.maine.gov/energy/sites/maine.gov.energy/files/inline-files/Home-Heating-Calculator.xls

It's instructive.

Course, it depends on your cost of electricity and cost of natural gas, but the general answer seems to be "yes" (for regions with sane electricity prices).

Electricity costs here are insane, and propane is pretty good (though it'll never be as cheap as piped in gas). And mini splits are still cheaper to run. You need really cheap gas to beat mini splits.

That being said, as it gets colder, heat pumps (including mini-splits) lose efficiency and we switch the entire house over to LPG if it goes below 30 degrees outside (our heat pumps are not cold-weather efficient).

Many modern mini splits do a lot better in the cold.

I don't think most mini-splits will allow you to set the temp that low.. Just fyi.

Many have a freeze prevention setting (for the house not the unit) that's in the 40s. But usually the minimum normal temp is 62 or so.

Keeping the temp low and then bumping it up when you're working (like for a shop) doesn't really work for mini splits. They don't have a lot of excess capacity to heat up a place fast like a gas heater. It's better to leave them running all the time. That's what they're designed for. Good air sealing and insulation will make that efficient.