New Home comes with new outbuilding

[Gretna]

We are super excited to be closing on this home in July. I know that is some time away but I wanted to get some ideas on what to do with this 36' x 36' outbuilding. The building has a dirt floor and no foundation. This was done to avoid taxes at the time. Anyone have ideas on what to do for a floor? foundation? The owner did run a sub box so I will have power in the building. At this time it is unfinished but my future goal is to have a floor and finish out the building. Any suggestions or ideas would be great!

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[gregtwojeeps]

We are super excited to be closing on this home in July. I know that is some time away but I wanted to get some ideas on what to do with this 36' x 36' outbuilding. The building has a dirt floor and no foundation. This was done to avoid taxes at the time. Anyone have ideas on what to do for a floor? foundation? The owner did run a sub box so I will have power in the building. At this time it is unfinished but my future goal is to have a floor and finish out the building. Any suggestions or ideas would be great!

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Congrats on your new home ! Knowing the blue text, I believe I would find out if the building had proper permits drawn on it. Would be a shame to invest thousands of dollars in stuff for the inside, then find out it is a illegal building that your property insurance may not even cover. Good luck JMO

 

[ishiboo]

We need more details. I am assuming this is a pole barn and there would not have been a "foundation", but we'd need to see the inside or have you tell us how it is constructed. That would mean "finishing" it is as easy having a concrete slab poured using the skirt boards as the forms.

Congrats on your new home ! Knowing the blue text, I believe I would find out if the building had proper permits drawn on it. Would be a shame to invest thousands of dollars in stuff for the inside, then find out it is a illegal building that your property insurance may not even cover. Good luck JMO

Your property insurance does not care if zoning is correct or permits filed, if something happens it is still covered.

I am guessing that it is probably legal though, since someone official was going to see it (perhaps just the appraiser for taxes).

 

[Cyberbear]

What the county tax assessor doesn't know won't hurt you. The extra cost of pumping concrete inside for a steel reinforced slab shouldn't raise the value of the property that much. Good luck on your new home.

 

[ishiboo]

What the county tax assessor doesn't know won't hurt you. The extra cost of pumping concrete inside for a steel reinforced slab shouldn't raise the value of the property that much. Good luck on your new home.

Having a dirt floor probably changed the classification of the building entirely. The tax assessor knowing about a finished slab could have meant the entire value of the building was taxed versus almost no value given to it at all. So, while it wouldn't raise the value of the property significantly, it could change the tax assessment significantly and thus the taxes paid... that's why it was done.

 

[gregtwojeeps]

We need more details. I am assuming this is a pole barn and there would not have been a "foundation", but we'd need to see the inside or have you tell us how it is constructed. That would mean "finishing" it is as easy having a concrete slab poured using the skirt boards as the forms.



Your property insurance does not care if zoning is correct or permits filed, if something happens it is still covered.

I am guessing that it is probably legal though, since someone official was going to see it (perhaps just the appraiser for taxes).

Will agree mostly, but the HO insurance companies now get their appraised values on the properties from the PVA. How would an PI agent appraise the Out Building when there is possibly no record of it being built.... if it is not recorded with the PVA ( note the PO did not want to pay taxes on it ) ....

Also, the out building is reported to have a "sub" box meaning electrical subpanel I assume. If the building burns down the first thing the fire inspection folks do, is look for electrical issues. So I would bet the building has not had an electrical inspection. One call downtown from the fire marshall will determine this question. ...

When we called our HO insurance agent to get insurance transferred to the 1959 model home we live in now, the agent said he would drive by and look at the property, but would not be able to enter the house... The second question out of my PO insurance agent's mouth was, " Does it have a newer electrical box and does it have a inspection sticker on it ?"

Yes, I am being overly cautious. But trust me on this one. Anyone that calls their HO insurance company to make a claim, had better have their T's crossed and I's dotted. As the property insurance company's mission is to bring in money, not spend in it. JMO

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

Maybe they didn't pour a floor because they didn't need or want a floor. Pretty common around here.
I also know of a couple where the new owner decided to put a concrete floor in but remove an inch or two of dirt and the concrete floor is already there.

 

[Falcon67]

>This was done to avoid taxes at the time.

Not buying that one. Improvements are assessed. The type or lack of flooring makes no difference. Use to be a big "rumor" back in the 80s that mobile homes weren't taxed because they were not a fixed structure - yes, they were.

The way it works here is they send you an appraisal - say 140,000. They you file a protest saying it only worth 40,000. You have a hearing with an appraiser and THEN you tell them the living room has a dirt floor, the bedroom has no roof and a family of bats lives in the hall closet. Everybody laughs and they knock a couple thousand off and have a nice day.

I'd pour a floor - I'd not expect it to change your valuations. Check your local tax authority - ours is online, you can look at any property and see what improvements are noted, the square footage of individual improvements (house, attached garage, porch area, outbuildings), total land area and assessed valuations of improvements and land.

 

[ishiboo]

>This was done to avoid taxes at the time.

Not buying that one. Improvements are assessed. The type or lack of flooring makes no difference. Use to be a big "rumor" back in the 80s that mobile homes weren't taxed because they were not a fixed structure - yes, they were.

The way it works here is they send you an appraisal - say 140,000. They you file a protest saying it only worth 40,000. You have a hearing with an appraiser and THEN you tell them the living room has a dirt floor, the bedroom has no roof and a family of bats lives in the hall closet. Everybody laughs and they knock a couple thousand off and have a nice day.

I'd pour a floor - I'd not expect it to change your valuations. Check your local tax authority - ours is online, you can look at any property and see what improvements are noted, the square footage of individual improvements (house, attached garage, porch area, outbuildings), total land area and assessed valuations of improvements and land.

No, in some locations having a concrete floor in a "shed" or outbuilding classifies it as an addition and it's taxed. Without it, it's not even looked at. Now, perhaps that is not the case in the OP's location and is only what they thought, but it is a possibility in places.

 

[rslaback]

If it were mine and I added a floor to it which raised the assessed value and therefore the taxes I would just nod, pay the higher bill and wish other people paid their fair share too instead of trying to game the system.

 

[Pitalplace]

>This was done to avoid taxes at the time.

Not buying that one. Improvements are assessed. The type or lack of flooring makes no difference. Use to be a big "rumor" back in the 80s that mobile homes weren't taxed because they were not a fixed structure - yes, they were.

The way it works here is they send you an appraisal - say 140,000. They you file a protest saying it only worth 40,000. You have a hearing with an appraiser and THEN you tell them the living room has a dirt floor, the bedroom has no roof and a family of bats lives in the hall closet. Everybody laughs and they knock a couple thousand off and have a nice day.

I'd pour a floor - I'd not expect it to change your valuations. Check your local tax authority - ours is online, you can look at any property and see what improvements are noted, the square footage of individual improvements (house, attached garage, porch area, outbuildings), total land area and assessed valuations of improvements and land.

It was a big deal in Lincoln County Nebraska when they taxed my 40 x 64 with a full concrete floor. After I showed the county assessor that it only had 30 x 40 concrete the value came down considerably. The back half is taxed as a barn and the front as a shop. I put chipped concrete in the back where the old leaky tractors set.

 

[manwithtools]

I find some of our discussions so entertaining. There are already multiple points of view on the OP's post, but we don't even know where they live (because you don't have to have that info in your profile - pet peeve), the OP does not yet have possession, only has limited facts about the property and we are already arguing about the why's and wherefore's.

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

Dig a big hole, put in a seat, and you can have an outhouse fit for a king.

 

[MushCreek]

Rules certainly do vary by location. Here in SC, building a 28 X 48 barn had no affect on my taxes, and it's fully inspected, on a slab. Other reasons for no slab might be to get around permits or set-backs. In FL, I could build a shed on a slab, but had to stay 10' away from the property line. With no slab- 2'. You had better do your due diligence to make sure you can legally do what you want to do, and find out what the tax hit would be.

I used to be a big advocate of gaming the system, and had the attitude that it's my property; I'll do what I want. I still feel that way, but after having first-hand experience with my HO insurer trying to weasel out of paying, I've gotten overly cautious. We had to sue AGAINST our insurance company at the same time that they were fighting FOR us in a lawsuit. When it was all said and done, we won, and also learned that all of the various lawyers are buddies, and work out the agreements on the golf course! What a system...

 

[Gretna]

Thanks for the concern on the taxes and building codes. The county assessor has nothing listed for outbuildings because it has no foundation nor concrete floor. I will have possession in July so I will be able to post more pictures then. Sorry, maybe I should have waited but for me this is something I wanted for a long time.

 

[gregtwojeeps]

Thanks for the concern on the taxes and building codes. The county assessor has nothing listed for outbuildings because it has no foundation nor concrete floor. I will have possession in July so I will be able to post more pictures then. Sorry, maybe I should have waited but for me this is something I wanted for a long time.

No problem, this GJer is a bit of drama queen at times, comes with age and boredom I guess. Everyone just trying to cover all bases for you . Have fun with your great looking building and look forward to the pics. .

 

[jrb2]

The issue of foundations and taxes is mentioned often in posts here on GJ. Most times it's not that straight forward. In Kansas, which has very similar property tax laws to Nebraska, there is a three prong test to determine if a structure is taxable. The tests are "annexation", "adaptation", and "intent". Annexation refers to how it is physically attached to the property. Adaption is how is the use of the building adapted to the real estate (land). Intent refers to how the owner intends to use the building. You don't have to have a positive "yes" to all three to be taxable. In this case the building appears to be adapted to the use of the real estate. In other words it is perfectly normal to have an outbuilding such as this on a property whose primary use is residential. As for intent, it doesn't look like anyone intended to move it, nor did they take it with them when they left. In my jurisdiction it would have been taxable anyway and who would have wanted a building that was not attached to the ground, it can get pretty windy there.

 

[James-W]

We need more details. I am assuming this is a pole barn and there would not have been a "foundation", but we'd need to see the inside or have you tell us how it is constructed. That would mean "finishing" it is as easy having a concrete slab poured using the skirt boards as the forms.



Your property insurance does not care if zoning is correct or permits filed, if something happens it is still covered.

I am guessing that it is probably legal though, since someone official was going to see it (perhaps just the appraiser for taxes).

I have a question on the sentence in blue. Assuming you are correct, then tell me why when I told my insurance agent I had built a garage and wanted it insured, his first words were, "Did you pull the proper permits and did you have all the inspections done"?

 

[C_F]

I find some of our discussions so entertaining. There are already multiple points of view on the OP's post, but we don't even know where they live (because you don't have to have that info in your profile - pet peeve), the OP does not yet have possession, only has limited facts about the property and we are already arguing about the why's and wherefore's.

True, huh? :

 

[manwithtools]

I find some of our discussions so entertaining. There are already multiple points of view on the OP's post, but we don't even know where they live (because you don't have to have that info in your profile - pet peeve), the OP does not yet have possession, only has limited facts about the property and we are already arguing about the why's and wherefore's.

BTW, I'm sorry for being so rude! welcome to GJ and congrats on the soon to be new building!

Thanks for adding your location, now folks can give more meaningful answers and pertinent advise. Maybe they can even give referrals on contractors in your are if you need them.

There are a number of different possible answers to your original question. It's possible that all you need is a concrete floor poured inside the existing structure. If it's a pole type structure with good drainage in the surrounding soil you might not need a "foundation"

 

[larry_g]

>. Use to be a big "rumor" back in the 80s that mobile homes weren't taxed because they were not a fixed structure - yes, they were.

In Oregon you could pay for plates or be taxed as a residence. Either way you paid but if you paid for plates the tax man was out and the DOT got the money.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[larry_g]

I know that is some time away but I wanted to get some ideas on what to do with this 36' x 36' outbuilding.

The thing you should be working on is how to add an additional 36' to the building...

lg
no neat sig line

 

[Bluedodge]

... The county assessor has nothing listed for outbuildings because it has no foundation nor concrete floor....

Is there at least a few square yards of carpet under the stripper pole?

 

[Catadj78]

Will agree mostly, but the HO insurance companies now get their appraised values on the properties from the PVA. How would an PI agent appraise the Out Building when there is possibly no record of it being built.... if it is not recorded with the PVA ( note the PO did not want to pay taxes on it ) ....

Also, the out building is reported to have a "sub" box meaning electrical subpanel I assume. If the building burns down the first thing the fire inspection folks do, is look for electrical issues. So I would bet the building has not had an electrical inspection. One call downtown from the fire marshall will determine this question. ...

When we called our HO insurance agent to get insurance transferred to the 1959 model home we live in now, the agent said he would drive by and look at the property, but would not be able to enter the house... The second question out of my PO insurance agent's mouth was, " Does it have a newer electrical box and does it have a inspection sticker on it ?"

Yes, I am being overly cautious. But trust me on this one. Anyone that calls their HO insurance company to make a claim, had better have their T's crossed and I's dotted. As the property insurance company's mission is to bring in money, not spend in it. :dunno: JMO

This can't be further from the truth.

 

[Adk Mike]

looks like a nice Pole Barn to me. 100's of them in this area. The floors always come after the build. And the money is sometimes tight so the floor waits

 

[Rorin67]

What I see is a beautiful blank canvas!

 

[cat06]

you have a nice pole building, thus no foundation. when it becomes yours put a small strip of concrete (like 1 foot wide by the length of the door) under the garage door to "seal" it better (gaps and such, with the rock) then hold off on any improvements for a year, to give the sarpy county assessors office time to come out, take pictures and update your valuation. In sarpy county you DO pay more taxes for concrete and improvements on your pole building. Gretna and sarpy county are growing and need more tax money anything you can save now will save you in the long run.

 

[finn]

looks like a nice Pole Barn to me. 100's of them in this area. The floors always come after the build. And the money is sometimes tight so the floor waits

This!

 

[lakeroadster]

Awesome looking building.. congrat's on your future shop.

 

[Gretna]

Thanks everyone! Once we move in I will post more pictures. My thoughts are pouring the floor and a mow strip on the outside to "seal" it. I know for sure I need to add lights and outlets which will be pretty easier.

 

[pmiranda]

What do you mean by a mow strip? To keep water out you want flashing to run from behind the siding and down over the edge of the slab.

 

[stimpy]

Thanks for the concern on the taxes and building codes. The county assessor has nothing listed for outbuildings because it has no foundation nor concrete floor. I will have possession in July so I will be able to post more pictures then. Sorry, maybe I should have waited but for me this is something I wanted for a long time.

sounds like a couple of counties this way , the building exist in permits and such , but not on the tax rolls as its not a permanent structure due to the dirt floor ( building can be pulled up and disassembled like a shed ) , but once the concrete goes in its on the tax rolls as now its permanent ( unless you destroy the pad and regrade ) , my pole barn on my property wasn't on the tax roll , till I Poured a partial floor , I got taxed on the sq footage of the floor , and I would have gotten away with no taxes but the concrete company will not deliver without a permit . ( they tell you this up front ) the guy who I sold the property too finished the pour by hand , and got caught when the apraiser came when they sold the house , he had to pay 4 grand in back taxes and fines as they fined him from the day I sold the property ( as it was apraised by the county when I sold it ( the County aparaiser works for the bank )

 

[dodgejunkie]

Sarpy county was always easy to work with years ago! I'd call up and ask them some questions.


Been gone for nearly 30 yrs., still miss my home town (Papillion) but get back there yearly to visit family!