Hello, this may not be about a garage but I have no where else to turn at this time. Our new home being built is on a slab and is weeks away from complete. We went to check it out today and a water main somewhere was broke. The entire main floor had about three inches of standing water. My question is: besides the wood floors and couple inches of the drywall, what problems will be behind the wall. They ensured us everything will be fixed. Should we back out? We are all living in tight quarters awaiting our new home. David in Indiana wood framed home....
New home construction problem
- Thread starter dsiddons
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I wouldn't be happy starting with a new preflooded home. Everything needs to be completely dried out or you will have a mold problem.
ConCretin
Well-known member
I agree with Nutts. At a minimum, I'd insist that be bottom 24" of drywall be removed and replaced especially on exterior walls with insulation in them, which should obviously be replaced as well.. If they did that, I think you'd be fine.
Al Bundy
Well-known member
The bottom plate and the bottoms of the studs are all going to be saturated as well. I wouldn't walk away, I would run. My main concern would be that they will fix anything beyond what you can see.
green.bubbly
Well-known member
Houses flood all the time. As mentioned, lower part of the sheet rock must be removed along with insulation. I would insist that a professional company such as Servpro be called in to ensure it is thoroughly dried out. There is also mold prevention pretreatment that can be sprayed on the walls.
Pluribus
Well-known member
If I was going to follow through with the purchase, I'd want some form of independent inspection after walls are opened up, insulation is removed etc. and before anything is closed back up. Contractor(s) will likely be in a rush to repair and close the sale, and as someone mentioned above, there will be a high moisture level in the sill plates on the slab, plus who knows where else. Post above mentions treatment, which also sounds like a good idea. I'd want someone who knew what to look for checking things out with a moisture meter and whatever other tricks they knew before approving moving forward, and I'd want the whole thing in writing.
I wouldn't walk away but I would insist on a 3rd party inspection at their expense. It ***** a water line broke and it ***** they have to pay for the the inspection (you choose the inspector) but I'm afraid that's the cost of doing business.
Give them the choice:
1) Rip everything, and I mean everything out on the first floor. Studs drywall, insulation, right to the bare concrete and start again
2) Pay for the inspector.
The contractor should have business insurance and the inspector's report should be sufficient for the insurance company to pay out.
Your living quarters might be tight but you do not want to move into a house where there is moud potential or where the wood framing was warped due to water saturation. if they used OSB on the floor, and they likely did, that won't stand up to being saturated.
Give them the choice:
1) Rip everything, and I mean everything out on the first floor. Studs drywall, insulation, right to the bare concrete and start again
2) Pay for the inspector.
The contractor should have business insurance and the inspector's report should be sufficient for the insurance company to pay out.
Your living quarters might be tight but you do not want to move into a house where there is moud potential or where the wood framing was warped due to water saturation. if they used OSB on the floor, and they likely did, that won't stand up to being saturated.
We did a number of flood rehabs in 2008 when we got a 500yr flood. Many homes were structurally sounds foundation wise, but had water 3-6' on the main floor. Your situation, while a major PITA, is not a big deal as far as longevity...provided it is fixed properly.
On homes with minor flooding on first floor, and yours is below minor IMO and experience, have the contractor remove and discard anything that the water touched/soaked into.
Baseboards
Doors/door trim
carpet
They will need to cut the drywall approximately 12" above the water line....we had to go 24" above water line since water was usually at least 12" deep and the homes sat in the summer months while homies sorted things out with insurance companies, mortaguages companies, FEMA, etc....nothing was fixed right after the waters receeded.
Remove the insulation 12" up as well since the water will tend to wick up, 3" is only slightly above the treated bottom plate they used in your on slab construction so it's no biggie and the insulation would'nt have soaked it up past 12".
Your electrical should be fine since it's a slab home, all your drops will come from the attic and down, so no wire replacement or outlet replacement should be necessary as they were not touched by water.
Your plumbing will be fine too since it is coming up through the slab at waste line drops and pex lines.....
Now, you have them bring in a flood remediator like Service Pro, and they will load the house up with fans and vaccum any standing water. They will keep airing out the area's touched by water until they are dry and meet a certain moisture requirment. At that point they will then spray eveerything down with a mold preventor/killer.
After they give you the okay, then it's back upto the contractor to fill in the blanks, patch and replace everything they needed to take out.
I'm assuming your HVAC is also plumbed from the attic so those lines will be water free and not need attention, if any are in the floor, Service Pro will address them as well.
It sounds worse than it really is, after dealing with homes with waist deep water for a period of a week, and then another 2 weeks before water receeded enough to enter, and then month to 3 months before work could begin....they can be fixed and have no problems. Anybody not versed in this is obviously going to freak out and think worst case scenario, your situation would be best case scenario because unlike our area with brown water/sewage running through homes, ou had clear water, and very shallow water at that. I would'nt have a problem in the world keeping things on track, PROVIDED above criteria is met....if the contractor does'nt want to do that, then walk away.
On homes with minor flooding on first floor, and yours is below minor IMO and experience, have the contractor remove and discard anything that the water touched/soaked into.
Baseboards
Doors/door trim
carpet
They will need to cut the drywall approximately 12" above the water line....we had to go 24" above water line since water was usually at least 12" deep and the homes sat in the summer months while homies sorted things out with insurance companies, mortaguages companies, FEMA, etc....nothing was fixed right after the waters receeded.
Remove the insulation 12" up as well since the water will tend to wick up, 3" is only slightly above the treated bottom plate they used in your on slab construction so it's no biggie and the insulation would'nt have soaked it up past 12".
Your electrical should be fine since it's a slab home, all your drops will come from the attic and down, so no wire replacement or outlet replacement should be necessary as they were not touched by water.
Your plumbing will be fine too since it is coming up through the slab at waste line drops and pex lines.....
Now, you have them bring in a flood remediator like Service Pro, and they will load the house up with fans and vaccum any standing water. They will keep airing out the area's touched by water until they are dry and meet a certain moisture requirment. At that point they will then spray eveerything down with a mold preventor/killer.
After they give you the okay, then it's back upto the contractor to fill in the blanks, patch and replace everything they needed to take out.
I'm assuming your HVAC is also plumbed from the attic so those lines will be water free and not need attention, if any are in the floor, Service Pro will address them as well.
It sounds worse than it really is, after dealing with homes with waist deep water for a period of a week, and then another 2 weeks before water receeded enough to enter, and then month to 3 months before work could begin....they can be fixed and have no problems. Anybody not versed in this is obviously going to freak out and think worst case scenario, your situation would be best case scenario because unlike our area with brown water/sewage running through homes, ou had clear water, and very shallow water at that. I would'nt have a problem in the world keeping things on track, PROVIDED above criteria is met....if the contractor does'nt want to do that, then walk away.
ford33
Well-known member
In addition to the above comments, perhaps you may want to contact your local home insurance agent but not the main office. Ask the agent what they would require to remedy this situation. You may have an issue with insurance if the problem was not remedied by a professional service.
James E
Well-known member
Good advice from IHI. I see this more often than you'd think in the houses that I finance and inspect. Do everything he suggested and if your state is like NC, there is a mandatory warranty period for the builder after the closing. If anything pops up, they'll have to handle it. Find out if that's the case in your state.
BTW, I'd rather have this happen to a slab house than one with a crawlspace. Lots less warping and possible mold issues. You'll be all right. May have to put off closing for a week or two but on a pre-sale, they'll be eager to fix the house. Just pay close attention that they do it right.
BTW, I'd rather have this happen to a slab house than one with a crawlspace. Lots less warping and possible mold issues. You'll be all right. May have to put off closing for a week or two but on a pre-sale, they'll be eager to fix the house. Just pay close attention that they do it right.
larry4406
Well-known member
IHI provides good advice.
They normally don't finish the garages. Of course I paid to have my garage finished. I think a drywall screw was run into the water main behind the wall on the garage. I also think the city turned on the water to the wrong house. Either way it was gonna leak. Thanks for the great input. I will make sure what you all said to do will be done.
wssix99
Well-known member
This is NOT a big deal. Before your roof was on and before your windows were up, all the studs, and sill plates, and concrete got wet.
As long as all the finishes come off so the wood and floors can full dry, (just like they did after the house was enclosed and before the finishes went on) you'll be fine.
Its also good that you aren't financially liable for this extra work!
Now the bad part:
- This has shown you that your house and the site is susceptible to flooding. You may want to look in to flood insurance for the future in case something similar happens in the future.
As long as all the finishes come off so the wood and floors can full dry, (just like they did after the house was enclosed and before the finishes went on) you'll be fine.
Its also good that you aren't financially liable for this extra work!
Now the bad part:
- This has shown you that your house and the site is susceptible to flooding. You may want to look in to flood insurance for the future in case something similar happens in the future.
johonmirae
Member
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2013
- Messages
- 6
My main concern would be that they will fix anything beyond what you can see.
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
At a minimum, you need a 3rd party company that specializes in flood repairs to come in, inspect and recommend and supervise repairs. Of course this is at the builders expense.
If not, walk away.
If not, walk away.
Al Bundy
Well-known member
Um. It was a bad water line.
Andybull
Well-known member
If the house is dried in, windows and doors are installed, cut out 24" of drywall and remove insulation if any. There are large dehumidifiers that can be rented to remove existing moisture. Your wood floors will probably warp, so I would have them removed and replaced.
Falcon67
Well-known member
To be fair, the OP did say "water main" which implies that it came in from the street. If it was a water LINE in the house, then that's a different deal. Plumbing contractor would be eating that deal. I would think builder's insurance would take of the slack for the other.
As Andy says in a short paragraph. Make sure the inside of the wall it dry. If they don't take time to cut drywall and let the studs dry I would raise hell. I would want new floor and trim no mater what. I'm sure the wood floor has water under it.
I agree whole-heartedly with this.
Also...get some time off/free time and be prepared to baby sit this clean up and the rest of the build.
Also...get some time off/free time and be prepared to baby sit this clean up and the rest of the build.
maddawg1952
Well-known member
What did the local building inspector say? He is the final say on an occupancy permit, mold issues should be part of his concern I would think seeing as it's a health hazard
If they find the source, the problem can be postively identified as to WHO caused the damage and who's liability insurance will be on the hook to make this right if the contractor is'nt going to eat it.
I have personally pierced water lines in walls, **** that had no plating to protect it from thiings like this happening, I ate the damages/redo since the pipes were put in prior with no permit/inspection...hence no protection plate to prevent a nail/screw from piercing them....typical DIY job.
But if the the plumber did in fact have protection plates nailed to the studs to protect the water lines, and the drywallers used tooo long of screws and proceeded to push and push and push until the screw/s finally bit through the metal and pulled it into the water line, then THEY will be the ones responsible.
It will all get very ugly at that point, your teh homeowner and just want it fixed, so hopefully your GC has enough clout to push the issue and stop the subs from pointing fingers and no taking care of it...or the GC's insurance will remedy it and then go after the sub's insurance companies (if they have insurance...lots of hack subs out there have no insurance and if this is the case, the GC's insurance company will tell the GC to pound sand and he will have to pay for all of this out of pocket since it's HIS resposiblity to have proof of GL insurance on every sub he uses on his jobs....it's just part of the things we are responsible for since we're the ones in charge of the big picture.
Good luck, dont sweat it. Just be glad it was a slab house and not a crawlspace, then you woulda had some other issues to address
darkk
Well-known member
I'm going with third party repair.....sorry to get off subject but find it necessary to pick on this.....
What planet do you live on that has virgins for all men getting married?
wssix99
Well-known member
That's different... (When I hear water main, I think municipal supply out at the road.)
If you had several inches of water, your house must be sealed really well - that's good.
If you had several inches of water, your contractor must have really messed up - that's bad. If they don't have a real good explanation, I might consider moving to the "walk" group. Sometimes these things come in pairs. My wife built a house once where a drywall subcontractor pierced three water lines. They all bust at different times and there was three separate cleanups. (BTW - that drywall company was never used again...)
I also like the idea of engaging a 3rd party.
06 DIESEL
Well-known member
I would hate to know how many times contractors working for us have flooded a building. Granted we are commercial, we still take care of it the same way. If the building is in finish stages we call ServPro or a similar contractor and let them handle it. Whoever is responsible for the damage gets the bill. I personally would have no qualms moving into a house that had a minor flood of 3" on one floor, as long as a professional did the remediation work.
This past summer we were working on tearing down a portion of a building when a bad storm came through the weekend after we opened up the roof. We flooded part of an occupied store, deepest was 2". I called ServPro and let them handle it 100%. They vacuumed up the water, placed fans, everything. A few days later when I thought it was dried out enough they came to look at it and said it was still wet, dryers had to stay for a few more days. If I had not hired them I would have pulled fans too early and possibly caused mold to develop.
This past summer we were working on tearing down a portion of a building when a bad storm came through the weekend after we opened up the roof. We flooded part of an occupied store, deepest was 2". I called ServPro and let them handle it 100%. They vacuumed up the water, placed fans, everything. A few days later when I thought it was dried out enough they came to look at it and said it was still wet, dryers had to stay for a few more days. If I had not hired them I would have pulled fans too early and possibly caused mold to develop.
Pluribus
Well-known member
Semi-related article on acceptable levels of moisture in framing. (In your case, someone else should be monitoring this and other issues during repairs.)
http://www.finehomebuilding.com/ite...raming&utm_campaign=fine-homebuilding-eletter
http://www.finehomebuilding.com/ite...raming&utm_campaign=fine-homebuilding-eletter
R6 Racer
Well-known member
IHI was right on! Follow that advice & you should have no future problems. I would also do as bygasper suggested "get some time off/free time and be prepared to baby sit this clean up and the rest of the build."
Do both of these things & you will be ok. I believe that if you leave ANYTHING that was suggested out, you WILL have problems in the future. The time off work will be well worth the cost to insure your home is good to go for you & your family.
If all that is done, I would say your going to be OK, if not, walk away. It's your family your going to put in there! It has to be right!
Steve
Do both of these things & you will be ok. I believe that if you leave ANYTHING that was suggested out, you WILL have problems in the future. The time off work will be well worth the cost to insure your home is good to go for you & your family.
If all that is done, I would say your going to be OK, if not, walk away. It's your family your going to put in there! It has to be right!
Steve
Kevin54
MEMBER EMERITUS
From my little experience with our water damaged floors (wood), they came in, had large mats that pulled the moisture out of the wood, wood checked good after a week. We had the floors refinished and now the wood is cupped.
So if it was my house and under contract, the contractor would be pulling the floors up, the subfloors up, drywall cut and removed 4' up, insulation pulled out, and redoing it it with new materials. The contractor should be Bonded, so his insurance should cover things like that. Not saying that they would, but if they would just happen to half-*** something, then you will always have the worry about mold in the back of your mind.
So if it was my house and under contract, the contractor would be pulling the floors up, the subfloors up, drywall cut and removed 4' up, insulation pulled out, and redoing it it with new materials. The contractor should be Bonded, so his insurance should cover things like that. Not saying that they would, but if they would just happen to half-*** something, then you will always have the worry about mold in the back of your mind.
We went through total flooding from Hurricane Irene ........ do as suggested above and get the wood floors replaced. Most folks here that had a clue not only ripped up the hardwood but also the subfloor if it was plywood..... primarily because of the mold potential.
Those that did not do that are now paying the price & wishing they did.
Those that did not do that are now paying the price & wishing they did.
James E
Well-known member
Slab house, guys.
cyamaha2007
Well-known member
I wouldnt be worried at all. Cut the drywall replace insulation rip up any carpet and hardwoods. Our building flooded at work and servpro tried to save the hardwood. That was a fail. It now is separating and needs a complete redo.