new home electrical problem

[carterbeauford]

new construction home, 1 year old. noticed clocks on range and microwave kept resetting. turned air conditioning on last night and all the lights started flickering. blowing warm air and then thermostat clicks off and kitchen outlets lose power. half the lights and outlets in the house work and half don't unless the thermostat is attempting to run the AC. AC condenser doesn't appear to be blowing.

150 amp panel with double pole breaker marked AC and single pole breaker marked furnace. I can't figure out what these circuits would have to do with lights or outlets. no tripped breakers. calling the HVAC contractor that did the install in the morning. I thought the electrical was the only trade they got right, house has been nothing but problems since move in.

 

[Rob_b]

Sounds like a loose main power to the panel or meter base. Check voltages to the buss bars to see if they're stable. Secondly, check the neutral line for tightness...

 

[carterbeauford]

Can I just tear into it with my screwdrivers? Instinct handles provide any insulation?

 

[kd3pc]

Can I just tear into it with my screwdrivers? Instinct handles provide any insulation?

No!...You need to shut the main breaker off, and be sure it is off, before working in the panel.

Similarly, before you do anything to the top of the main panel or lugs or main breaker feed points, you need to pull the meter (usually requires contractor or power company folks).

Do not assume anything is insulated as far as tools go...do NOT poke around in panels, unless you are qualified. You can get hurt or worse.

 

[carterbeauford]

I shut the main breaker off and took the cover off and found a ground screw completely unscrewed, didn't think it was safe to touch anything else.

 

[Stuart in MN]

The connections that are often loose are the main lugs, and they're on the upstream side of the main breaker so they'll still be 'hot'.

 

[Lassen Forge]

new construction home, 1 year old. ...


150 amp panel with double pole breaker marked AC and single pole breaker marked furnace. I can't figure out what these circuits would have to do with lights or outlets. no tripped breakers. calling the HVAC contractor that did the install in the morning. I thought the electrical was the only trade they got right, house has been nothing but problems since move in.

I would call the electrical contractor that did this install and have them come and fix this, because something ain't right... No, actually... with all the issues you have with this new house, I'd actually want a SECOND electrician to figure out what the installer did wrong.

One thing I would NOT do is go poking around on something like this, because if there are serious electrical issues with the house (sounds like someone did a fubar install), you could end up with a year old pile of charcoal, or a dead body holding a screwdriver.

 

[Stuart in MN]

If the house is one year old there may still be a warrantee that would cover a return visit from the electrician. If it is just a loose connection, hopefully it's a simple thing where they're in and out quickly.

Another possibility is a loose connection at the utility transformer, which would be the electric utility's responsibility.

 

[carterbeauford]

No warranty. The attorney general is investigating the builder for building a dangerous, defective home and then, in his own words, slapping a lien on it to prevent us from selling when we told him we didn't want it. His electrician is a decent guy but this is something we can use to defend our case, if he came back and fixed it then the builder would know.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Can I just tear into it with my screwdrivers? Instinct handles provide any insulation?

NO! Definitely dont do that.

No warranty. The attorney general is investigating the builder for building a dangerous, defective home and then, in his own words, slapping a lien on it to prevent us from selling when we told him we didn't want it. His electrician is a decent guy but this is something we can use to defend our case, if he came back and fixed it then the builder would know.

If thats the case then i would go hire a competent electrician with good reviews, to do an inspection on the electrical system to see what else may have been done wrong.

 

[carterbeauford]

https://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov...ney-General-DeWine-Seeks-Restitution-for-Cons

I don't think they mess around.

 

[ddawg16]

This is a good example of why you need to own a voltmeter and know how to use it.

It could also be an issue of the line coming in.....bad transformer? (unlikely in new are)

But....having that voltmeter will give you an idea of what is going on.

 

[carterbeauford]

The main lugs are reading 117V.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

How about line to line with minimal load and high load?

 

[carterbeauford]

There are two hots and a neutral coming from the meter, correct?

Black and neutral 0V
Red and neutral 117V
Red and black 117V

 

[Sevenhills1952]

I would have called my attorney yesterday. No way on a new house would I accept it, start messing with anything, etc. You shouldn't have to. If you admit to touching anything that can be major trouble. The contractor or electrician can claim it was fine until you fooled with it.
Also I would talk with your local inspectors office.
Also your bank. You shouldn't have to pay for a home you can't safely live in.

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[wyliesdiesels]

There are two hots and a neutral coming from the meter, correct?

Black and neutral 0V
Red and neutral 117V
Red and black 117V

Yes 2 hots and a neutral.

I dont undestand your color code.

What is black?

Between the 2 ungrounded conductors it should be close to 240v.

 

[carterbeauford]

I don't have funds for litigation so I'm hoping the State of Ohio sues him for me.

Bank could not care less, you picked the builder.

This is how a certificate of occupancy was issued.

 

[TractorJeff]

There are two hots and a neutral coming from the meter, correct?

Black and neutral 0V
Red and neutral 117V
Red and black 117V

Sounds like the black termination in the meter isn't tight?

 

[carterbeauford]

Black and red coming in from the large cable from the meter, when I touch both multimeter leads to the black and red it reads 117V. The city did some recent underground utility work but I was racking my brain trying to figure out how I'd still have power some places and not others. Makes sense because the AC condenser is the only thing that runs on 240V.

 

[pistolpete1313]

Sounds like the black termination in the meter isn't tight?

Yep, makes sense ac isn't working. Essentially only half you house is getting power.

Could be easy, could be hard fix. Complain to power company to see if it is on their side?

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[vertguy]

I had a similar issue on my new house that started happening several years after it was built. My symptoms included some lights being very dim while others circuits were dead. It would start very randomly and usually only lasted a couple minutes. I have a background in electronics and started doing all types of tests with my meter. Of course the issue never lasted long enough to see anything wrong.
I finally contacted the power company when it took me down in the midst of working from home. They installed a monitor between my meter and house for a couple weeks, but of course it never failed. A month or so later it finally failed hard and was constant. Some quick tests isolated the issue to a partial break in my under ground feed line from the transformer. After they spliced the bad area of line, the problem has never returned. So my advice is to call your local power company.


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[wyliesdiesels]

Black and red coming in from the large cable from the meter, when I touch both multimeter leads to the black and red it reads 117V. The city did some recent underground utility work but I was racking my brain trying to figure out how I'd still have power some places and not others. Makes sense because the AC condenser is the only thing that runs on 240V.

Yeah you lost a hot leg. Thats why part of the house works

Call POCO stat!

 

[carterbeauford]

Will call the city in the morning.

 

[brewchief]

When the A/C is trying to run it's making enough of a circuit to power the other half of the house, that's why some of the lights will work when the A/C is trying to run.

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[carterbeauford]

You guys are smart.

 

[kaffine]

You guys are smart.

Call the power company tonight they generally have after hour service for power outages.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Will call the city in the morning.

Does the city povide your power?

If not, call your power company now!

EDIT: looks like they do. CALL THEM STAT!

“Between the hours of 4pm to 8am and Weekends: (330) 534-1133”

http://www.cityofhubbard-oh.gov/electric/

 

[Jim greengo]

NO! Definitely dont do that.



If thats the case then i would go hire a competent electrician with good reviews, to do an inspection on the electrical system to see what else may have been done wrong.

What he said. As soon as you start messing with it as a home owner they can dump the liability back on you since you were the last 1 who touched it.
Get a local licensed electrician to look at it,if it's something serious he can always call the local inspector to look at it.

 

[ford33]

Let us know how this turns out for you. It is an interesting issue and involves multiple people. Good luck today.

 

[carterbeauford]

City said service is broken underground and referred me to a utility contractor. Utility contractor dug up service and found the wires buried in gravel with no conduit and said they shorted and caught fire. He said code requires the wires to be buried in sand. Service is back to normal and I have contacted an attorney.

 

[carterbeauford]

And seeing an excavator in my yard, neighbors came over and investigated and he said your homes are all the same way.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

City said service is broken underground and referred me to a utility contractor. Utility contractor dug up service and found the wires buried in gravel with no conduit and said they shorted and caught fire. He said code requires the wires to be buried in sand. Service is back to normal and I have contacted an attorney.

Service entrance buried in gravel? WTF

ask the city who did the underground service.

Since its before the meter, that is typically the PoCo who in your case is the city.

Wow just wow. Thats the first time ive ever heard of someone burying direct burial urd in gravel

 

[Jim greengo]

Service entrance buried in gravel? WTF

ask the city who did the underground service.

Since its before the meter, that is typically the PoCo who in your case is the city.

Wow just wow. Thats the first time ive ever heard of someone burying direct burial urd in gravel

Yep,not the sharpest pencil in the box for sure.

 

[Jason280]

What would have caused the wires to short and catch fire?

 

[carterbeauford]

Service entrance buried in gravel? WTF

ask the city who did the underground service.

Since its before the meter, that is typically the PoCo who in your case is the city.

Wow just wow. Thats the first time ive ever heard of someone burying direct burial urd in gravel

The builder.

Bank is involved and not happy, all I can say.

 

[ard]

What would have caused the wires to short and catch fire?

Contractor driving a bobcat or other construction vehicle oevr wires while burying...using a backhoe on wires while burying.... Ton of ways.

Conduit baby...conduit.

 

[strutaeng]

This is very interesting. I recently did an overhead to underground in my house. It's an old neighborhood.

I did the trench and ran the conduit . My electric provider came to inspect the conduit before they sent their own sub contractor to run the actual wire. Technically, I own the conduit and electric company owns the wire is what I remember the lady told me. The lady inspector was strict about following the design guide listed on their website: burial depth, Schedule 80 riser, number of bends, etc., but I had followed everything closely and followed some pointers when she gave when she came to look at the project.

Now, from what I know the wire is waterproof and should not have shorted, unless the insulation was punctured or something like that, which is likely. That's the reason for the conduit, to protect the wire from physical damage.

Is there a chance the builder paid someone to do (or not) do something? You know, as things sometimes happen in a some areas where everyone knows everyone?

 

[ddawg16]

I researched doing underground when I was doing my 2-story addition.

I had to dig a trench 3' deep and use 3" conduit. It was going to cost me about $3000 just to do that.

 

[ard]

This is very interesting. I recently did an overhead to underground in my house. It's an old neighborhood.

I did the trench and ran the conduit . My electric provider came to inspect the conduit before they sent their own sub contractor to run the actual wire. Technically, I own the conduit and electric company owns the wire is what I remember the lady told me. The lady inspector was strict about following the design guide listed on their website: burial depth, Schedule 80 riser, number of bends, etc., but I had followed everything closely and followed some pointers when she gave when she came to look at the project.

Now, from what I know the wire is waterproof and should not have shorted, unless the insulation was punctured or something like that, which is likely. That's the reason for the conduit, to protect the wire from physical damage.

Is there a chance the builder paid someone to do (or not) do something? You know, as things sometimes happen in a some areas where everyone knows everyone?

Bingo. My thoughts exactly.

Can also me the 'its a homeowner, they are idiots....vs...its a big builder they are professionals' mindset. Turns out the big builders build **** a large % of the time