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New Home with attached garage heating options

iowa4x4dieselman

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As the title states I am in the process of building a new home with an attached garage/shop. The home will be located in eastern IA. I am looking for advice on heating/cooling options. I have attached the layout below. It will be a 3 car garage with a tandem on the 3rd stall, approx. 1244 sq. ft. Ceilings will be a little above 12' so I can install a 2 post hoist in the tandem part. My original thought was to insulate the slab with 2" foam and put in-floor heat in. Due to budgetary constraints I would probably install the boiler at a later date. in conversations with others, I have gotten mixed opinions. One suggestion was to not insulate the slab and put in a hanging heater. Another was to not insulate the slab and install a regular house furnace so I could have A/C also. I have A/C in my current garage and don't really use it much, but I could see it being beneficial as my family is growing, it could be used for parties/gatherings. The reason I was told not to insulate the slab is due to having a foundation. The whole process of building is quite overwhelming at times. With the money it cost to build this place, I only want to do it once and would like to have little regrets if possible.

Thanks in advance all.
 

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HoosierBuddy

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I agree with the above. Not sure who is telling you the foundation prevents insulating under the slab. Makes no sense to me.

Is natural gas available?

Also...if your budget is too tight to allow you to install a heating appliance such as a boiler or furnace for the home....Not sure how you are going to fare with this. Bear in mind that costs are always higher than you think on these things. It's not like you'll be digging the foundation and hit a vault full of cash...but you can be digging the foundation and hit limestone or such that can blow your budget.

Phil
 
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finn

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Insulate the slab , but I would forego the pex unless you plan to actively wrench seven days per week all winter.

I don’t usually like electric heat, because our electric rates are outrageous, but the Mitsubishi Hyper heat mini split we put in my wife’s exercise room has been fantastic, even in five degree ambient temperatures.
 
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iowa4x4dieselman

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I agree with the above. Not sure who is telling you the foundation prevents insulating under the slab. Makes no sense to me.

Is natural gas available?

Also...if your budget is too tight to allow you to install a heating appliance such as a boiler or furnace for the home....Not sure how you are going to fare with this. Bear in mind that costs are always higher than you think on these things. It's not like you'll be digging the foundation and hit a vault full of cash...but you can be digging the foundation and hit limestone or such that can blow your budget.

Phil

Natural gas will be available.

Sorry for my lack of description. When I was talking about the boiler it was for the garage if it were to be ran separate from the house. I didn't know if I could afford to finish off the house and buy a heating appliance for the garage. I am having a builder build the home and garage, just don't know how much extra will be in the budget to make the garage how I want it at the time of construction.
 
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iowa4x4dieselman

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Insulate the slab , but I would forego the pex unless you plan to actively wrench seven days per week all winter.

I don’t usually like electric heat, because our electric rates are outrageous, but the Mitsubishi Hyper heat mini split we put in my wife’s exercise room has been fantastic, even in five degree ambient temperatures.

Would you still recommend 2" foam? why is in-floor heat a bad idea? My thought was to keep it at least 50 degrees, and then when I'm out there kick it up. I heard when doing this most recommend an additional heat source, as the "recovery" time of in floor heat is longer than using a forced air option.

There is natural gas piped to the lot.
 

oledude1952

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Nothing to add here for me, as most all has already been said about the OP heating needs. So I will reply to the " little regrets" mentioned in the OP.


Having owned and sold five homes with various placed garages on them, my regret is ending up with a home for my retirement ...with an attached garage.

The Ms. is on my keester way too often now about the smells I make in the garage etc, like the WD 40 spraying, paints, torch burning, mower/outdoor gas fumes.

And the dirt/ dust that gets tracked and pulled in to our home from every time the door between the house and the attached garage gets opened. And whenever I cut a piece of wood or sand in it in the garage ? Whoa, hades to pay for that one. :)
 
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HoosierBuddy

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Natural gas will be available.

Sorry for my lack of description. When I was talking about the boiler it was for the garage if it were to be ran separate from the house. I didn't know if I could afford to finish off the house and buy a heating appliance for the garage. I am having a builder build the home and garage, just don't know how much extra will be in the budget to make the garage how I want it at the time of construction.

If you go with forced air heating, your garage and house will need separate heating appliances. However, if you go with a boiler for the house, you can have a garage zone with a separate thermostat that will kick on a zone pump for the garage when it drops below the set point. There would not be a need for a second "garage" boiler.

That being said, a hydronic heating system will be more costly than forced air.

Phil
 

ripperd

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Would you still recommend 2" foam? why is in-floor heat a bad idea? My thought was to keep it at least 50 degrees, and then when I'm out there kick it up. I heard when doing this most recommend an additional heat source, as the "recovery" time of in floor heat is longer than using a forced air option.

There is natural gas piped to the lot.

Radiant floor heating is awesome.

But honestly, a hanging heater works good enough for most folks, including me.

I do exactly as you say - hanging heater, normally set at 50 degrees. If I know i'm going to be working a long time in there, i'll kick it up to 55 or so. Otherwise even at 50, it is pretty darn comfortable in a sweatshirt and mechanic gloves working. Now if I was just sitting there watching tv it would be chilly,but when actively working in the garage 50-55 is pretty comfortable.

FWIW, I asked the builder about doing underslab insulation, and they were not interested in varying from their standard build. Ours is attached as well so it has a perimeter foundation. They also did put in a 2" foam thermal break between the edge of the slab and the foundation. So the slab itself does retain a little warmth, it isn't freezing cold like some slab on grade detached garages.
 

Macrosill

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My attached garage is kept at 55 degrees with a Modine hanging hydronic heater. I installed a fourth zone on my oil burner to the garage. Warm enough for me to work in the garage while wearing a sweatshirt. Better than unheated on a day like yesterday when it was 8 degrees outside with high winds.

Radiant floor heating is nice but it may take a long time to bring the temp up from 50 when you want to use it. Forced hot air would be faster I think.
 

finn

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Would you still recommend 2" foam? why is in-floor heat a bad idea? My thought was to keep it at least 50 degrees, and then when I'm out there kick it up. I heard when doing this most recommend an additional heat source, as the "recovery" time of in floor heat is longer than using a forced air option.

There is natural gas piped to the lot.

I have in floor heat in my house, and it’s great. I’m in there every day.

The shop also has in floor heat, but it’s a large shop, 48x75’, well insulated, with high ceilings, and it costs a small fortune to heat, even with a 96% condensing boiler.

I used 298 gallons of propane by December 27, even though I keep the temperature in the mid forties. I use a hanging heater to bump the temp to the low sixties when I am working.

It’s comfortable heat, but expensive to install (the new boiler was about $4200 vs less than $500 for the hanging heater), and not very flexible. I can’t shut it off and go to Florida or Arizona for three months)

Great for full time heat if you are there every day, though.
 

pogrelis97

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my garage is only slightly smaller than yours, I purchased a 2.5 ton heat pump to heat and cool it. You would probably want a 3 ton. The house is still under construction so I cant comment on how well it works yet.
I do have one in my 800sq ft living quarters in my shop and I'm more than impressed by it over the last 7 years.
 

ripperd

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my garage is only slightly smaller than yours, I purchased a 2.5 ton heat pump to heat and cool it. You would probably want a 3 ton. The house is still under construction so I cant comment on how well it works yet.
I do have one in my 800sq ft living quarters in my shop and I'm more than impressed by it over the last 7 years.

Iowa might be borderline for a heat pump. Maybe southern Iowa it is do-able, but in northern Iowa you'd have plenty of winter days where the heat doesn't work because its too cold out.
 
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iowa4x4dieselman

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Iowa might be borderline for a heat pump. Maybe southern Iowa it is do-able, but in northern Iowa you'd have plenty of winter days where the heat doesn't work because its too cold out.

Are you talking heat pump as in a mini split unit or heat pump in a geothermal setup. A buddy of mine has geothermal and he loves it. The upfront cost is a tough pill to swallow, but keeps the house a constant temp for a reasonable price. My location is near the quad cities, currently we are under a foot or so blanket of snow with more coming, and temps projected to be -35 on Friday morning.

The plan is once I get the prints back from the builder is to take it to my local spray foam contractor to see what it will cost for insulation. Plans are to do spray-foam and the zip system, knowing in doing this I will need an air exchanger in the house.

Thanks to all so far on the plethora of options. I have tons more thinking and reading to do.
 

ripperd

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You are right, I was talking about mini-splits, not geothermal!

Code in MN as of 2015 is all new residential construction needs an HRV/ERV, I wouldn't be surprised if IA was the same way.
 

yeldogt

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My experience: People don't know what they are talking about -- they give advise based on "the guy down the street" ... or "I did this once" ... "this is the way we always do it" is the most popular. I'm including builders and HVAC people. Unless you have built high efficiency dwellings with high end equipment -- you really can't know.

You get one shot at some things -- especially true when concrete slabs are involved.

We have basements in the Mid Atlantic. Even when it's very cold outside an unheated basement slab is warmer than you would think -- in a heated space w/ insulated walls. Is it as warm as an insulated? - no .. but the difference is smaller than many would think. That's why you will read about people only doing a perimeter run of foam for a basement. Insulation is diminishing returns -- the thicker you go the less benefit each amount gives.

Garage slabs are different -- they are not basement slabs down 6-8' into the ground. It's colder on the surface .. but the same principle applies. Move towards the middle and an uninsulated slab in a heated building and it will feel warmer due to it's lower heat loss vs the permitter.

So what's it all mean ? Taking air sealing out of the equation ... how much is an uninsulated slab going to matter to the heat loss of a building? That's what's really going on -- insulating the slab stops the transfer of heat out of the slab to the ground. In terms of overall cost with NG .. not very much. Now -- let's talk about comfort. If you plan on working down low -- or actually down on the floor ... it's going to mater more. Maybe much more depending on your preferred temp.

The vast majority of garages are thought of as utility spaces -- unheated slabs -- minimal wall insulation (whatever the code) .. install a big heater and that's it. My first garage in the city was a block walled three car with minimal insulation and a hanging heater ... I thought it was great and NG was cheap. That's what most people have as a reference point.

Putting radiant into a slab changes everything. With radiant you are now making the floor the hottest part of the space -- heat flows towards cold. You don't want to be driving that heat anyplace but into the space to be warmed ... the need to insulate grows many times. You want to fully insulate any radiant slab -- this insures best efficiency and fastest warm up.

As you move to colder climates -- or any moisture/ water near the slab --- insulation need grows.

People have this idea that radiant heat saves money .. well it only saves where you are able to deliver fewer BTUs to a building and still provide comfort. This can occur when high ceilings are encountered or when buildings have lots of glass -- You don't do radiant to save $$... it's all about comfort.

The comment about partial use can be true -- radiant slabs can only get heat from the PEX. It's all a question of water temp and amount of PEX (length of tubing) in the slab -- you can't turn on the heat and expect the slab to be warm in 1/2 hour. Thick slabs require more time -- the temp of the slab matters ... and the insulation matters.

With constant circulation and a well designed slab -- 12" on center works for many. It's not going to work if you want faster changes -- my last space was 6".

I see your last post: With temps like that -- insulation is paramount. And air sealing as well -- your foam idea is great. I have been building with foam since the early 90's and it makes for extremely comfortable spaces -- I typically do plywood and rain screens. Unless you spend time in a foamed building you don't understand how superior they are to many alternatives ... yes more expensive. Make sure the person doing the HVAC calculation understands foam and how to size -- oversizing is a bad enough w/o foam. Foam reduces equipment size and cost -- reduces running costs for a lifetime. Proper ventilation is important -- pressurizing if any radon is around.

Are you doing radiant in any other part of the project ? boiler in the house?

Since you are waiting on plan -- sounds like this is not part of a development. Many builders of developments don't want to make any changes -- do as little as possible ... make the $$ .. move on. They will tell you anything you want to hear to make the job easier and move along.
 
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iowa4x4dieselman

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I see your last post: With temps like that -- insulation is paramount. And air sealing as well -- your foam idea is great. I have been building with foam since the early 90's and it makes for extremely comfortable spaces -- I typically do plywood and rain screens. Unless you spend time in a foamed building you don't understand how superior they are to many alternatives ... yes more expensive. Make sure the person doing the HVAC calculation understands foam and how to size -- oversizing is a bad enough w/o foam. Foam reduces equipment size and cost -- reduces running costs for a lifetime. Proper ventilation is important -- pressurizing if any radon is around.

Are you doing radiant in any other part of the project ? boiler in the house?

Since you are waiting on plan -- sounds like this is not part of a development. Many builders of developments don't want to make any changes -- do as little as possible ... make the $$ .. move on. They will tell you anything you want to hear to make the job easier and move along.

Thank you very much for your insights!!

So the way I understand is I should tell my HVAC guy what insulation we are going with because in having a more efficient home, I would need less capacity on heating/cooling appliances?

I had originally thought about infloor for the basement also but I'm not sure as the layout may be a little tricky with putting up walls and anchoring them to the floor.

If I were to do that and have a boiler, what are the options for heating/cooling the remainder of the house?

The builder is a custom home builder, will use any contractors we wish to, and has been awesome to deal with so far in our meetings. Also his business partner is the carpenter. This has been very helpful as the design guy can make it look good on paper, but the carpenter knows what is practical and makes the most construction sense.
 

sweetk30

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modine hot dawg heater hanging up in the corner .

under 1k bucks and they just work good .

as said insulate the floor before pour to help the cold from coming up in as much .

pex heat in the floor = heat on whole season . if turned off or way down it takes a lot of time to come back up to temp unlike other heat systems . and if your not on the floor all the time why heat the floor .
 

Ak Jim

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I grew up in Iowa. I have lived in Fairbanks AK for over 30'years. The houses here are subjected to temperatures way way colder than in Iowa and because of this the building methods are most likely way ahead of what is the standard for where you live. Things like ground vapor barriers and slab foundation and radiant heat is and has been done for decades here.
I will start off by saying if someone tells you not to vapor barrier and insulate under a slab I would find a different builder, they are building using outdated methods.
Once the slab is poured you can't go back and add insulation or pex tubing. The cost for 1200' of pex is less than $1000. Even if you don't have the money to get a hot water source now you can't add the pex later.
For everyone here commenting on the "bad" things about radiant heat I wonder how many have actually had it and lived with it?
The key is to have well insulated walls and ceiling with excellent air sealing. Are you using 2x6 walls? Also how about what kind of roof trusses and insulation? How about garage doors, look for r17.
If you insulate and seal well there is really no need to turn the temp way down in the garage. You mention a lift, I would guess you do a fair amount of work in the garage so why not be comfortable while you are out there. If you haven't experienced radiant heat in a house, and especially in a garage find a house that has it and see for your self.
I recently did a 1300sqft garage addition. It has 8" r28 walls and between r60-r80 in the ceiling. The garage doors are r17. I keep the garage at 67 and if we are going to be doing stuff I turn the temp up to 70. We just had roughly a month of -30 to -40 outside temps, and this is actual temp and not windchill. The garage uses 150 gallons of home heating oil a month when it is that cold outside. A garage built to these specifications where you live would need very little heat and not cost much to keep warm.
Lastly how long do you plan on living in this house? If just a few years then maybe it doesn't make much sense to spend the money on good insulation and radiant heat but if you are planning on being there long term spend a little more now.
 

kj_mustang

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I have an attached garage with radiant and a partial walkout basement with radiant that I had built 2 years ago. I know everybody's budget is different but in your climate do not skimp on insulation including under the slabs. I still have not hooked up my basement zone yet. But with the 2" foam under the slab and R8 fiberglass on the walls, it is in the 60's year round. My house and garage walls are all 2x6 with wet blown cellulose. I found it to be a very good insulation at a much cheaper cost than spray foam. In your climate, you will need to spray a minimum of 2" of closed cell to achieve a wind and water vapor barrier. If you do a gas boiler for the house, adding a heat zone for the attached garage is easy. Attaching the wall framing to the basement floors is no problem, if you attach the pex lines to the foam insulation to keep it at the bottom of the slab and then make sure the contractor only uses 2.5" long screws to attach the floor plates.
 
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yeldogt

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Thank you very much for your insights!!

So the way I understand is I should tell my HVAC guy what insulation we are going with because in having a more efficient home, I would need less capacity on heating/cooling appliances?

I had originally thought about infloor for the basement also but I'm not sure as the layout may be a little tricky with putting up walls and anchoring them to the floor.

If I were to do that and have a boiler, what are the options for heating/cooling the remainder of the house?

The builder is a custom home builder, will use any contractors we wish to, and has been awesome to deal with so far in our meetings. Also his business partner is the carpenter. This has been very helpful as the design guy can make it look good on paper, but the carpenter knows what is practical and makes the most construction sense.

The HVAC contractor needs to understand the insulation so he can plug all of this into his heat loss calculator. While things are changing -- the vast majority of HVAC people don't have much experience with foam and top equipment. The industry is rapidly changing -- houses are getting better and manufacturers are now coming out with smaller output heating devices. But, old habits take a long time to change .. die hard.

HVAC companies commonly just replace what's in a house when switching out a heater or AC ... w/o ever checking the heat and cooling load on the building. They ask the homeowner if it worked OK ... most homeowners have lived with oversize equipment forever --- they don't understand how much of a difference having the proper equipment can make. Another problem is the manufacturers .. even if the building needed only 50k -- if the smallest unit was 70k ,,, what could you do?

Building new is not much better. Too many HVAC people use "rule of thumb" calculations based on SF. New house will be 2000sf .. needs 400-500 a ton of AC. Put in a 4T unit ... homeowner likes it cold ... put in a 5T. I did a 2k sf barn conversion with foam and SIP's -- it has 2T of cooling.

Foam eliminates air leaking .... air leaking is a huge issue with heating and cooling a building. Insulation only works w/o air movement. CC foam also gets you about 7R per inch. The first inch of foam is amazing ... people don't understand how much a thick wall of fiberglass batt insulation can leak .. not getting the R value. I think more work needs to be done on finding out the real R value of various building systems ... most new houses still leak. And the new building systems that need to have tape seal everything up ... I wonder .. what happens in 20 years of heat cool cycles on tape? if it fails there goes the R value if batt.

So it's very important to have someone do the calculation correctly and not be afraid to follow it. The other item is to not design something for a possible one off event. In other words: in the midatlantic you don't want to design an AC system to maintain 70 degrees at 105 outside temp .. because it hit that temp once 10 years ago. It's often better if you are on the edge of two different sizes to see if it's not better to go with the smaller size. Design for 72 degrees -- or even a two day event at 74 ... 74 degrees at low humidity is very comfortable. oversized equipment often can never get the humidity down .. 70 degrees at high humidity can waste energy and not be as nice as 74.

Another factor people forget when building well -- the operating costs drop. So the cost of maintaining a space at a higher temp is not as great as one not built as well. So while radiant is not a system that works well with changing the indoor temp all the time .. it's a great part of an overall building envelope when temps are maintained -- this is especially true with cheap natural gas.

I'm in the process of rebuilding an old sone building from the 1870's and adding on to it. I poured a new lower level slab and installed a simple radiant loop system based on the 250 max at 8" loops -- it's well below grade so I did the 8". Most people use 12" everywhere .. I tend to use more loops and use cooler water .. that's just how I do it. It's a typical 4+ inch slab with proper base and drainage -- vapor barrier -- 2" of foam and the tubes tied to the grid. I use a slightly high PSI mix -- in my case its going to be a finished floor and we used Sika color on top. It's easy enough to lay out the tubing to stay clear of the framing -- in reality the nails are not going to hit the tubing. I keep them pressurized with a gauge. Some will say you need to keep the mesh in the middle -- but I have never had any issues with an inside slab ... Many of the newer designs use a plastic grid system to hold the PEX -- and that's at the bottom as well. Properly insulated -- the heat will go up tot he space w/o issue.

In this house I am using "warm board" for the finished wood floors and bathroom with tiles.

Yes -- it can all get expensive. HVAC is one item most don't think about -- but having a comfortable efficient quiet house is my goal. While I have never done it -- one member on here has used buried insulated pipe to heat a house and garage with one boiler. Again -- it's all a question of heat load. Your's is attached .. so that's easy. You only get one shot at it and if this is a long term house ... it's worth thinking about. One boiler could heat the garage and warm the floors --- add some plates or staple up for simple warming of the floors of the kitchen and baths.
 
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kj_mustang

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If the hvac contractor doesn't know how to do a Manual J calculation for the house based on the build and insulation specs, then find a different one.
 
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iowa4x4dieselman

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I have an attached garage with radiant and a partial walkout basement with radiant that I had built 2 years ago. I know everybody's budget is different but in your climate do not skimp on insulation including under the slabs. I still have not hooked up my basement zone yet. But with the 2" foam under the slab and R8 fiberglass on the walls, it is in the 60's year round. My house and garage walls are all 2x6 with wet blown cellulose. I found it to be a very good insulation at a much cheaper cost than spray foam. In your climate, you will need to spray a minimum of 2" of closed cell to achieve a wind and water vapor barrier. If you do a gas boiler for the house, adding a heat zone for the attached garage is easy. Attaching the wall framing to the basement floors is no problem, if you attach the pex lines to the foam insulation to keep it at the bottom of the slab and then make sure the contractor only uses 2.5" long screws to attach the floor plates.

In using a boiler for heating, what are the options for heat for the remainder of the house and also for cooling.

Thanks!
 

kj_mustang

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If you are doing new construction, you can plan for radiant floor heat for the whole house by putting it down at the subfloor level with the new products they have. It works better that way than staple up under the subfloor. My house has heat pump for the main floor levels so that does heat and cooling. The radiant does the basement and thinking about doing staple up radiant to the underside of the first floor for the colder months. The boiler does my domestic hot water also with a indirect tank.
 
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iowa4x4dieselman

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We received the quote back on the house and it is a little above what we had originally planned, but I have a good friend that is a concrete guy. Was going to ask him the cost of installing the tubes in the floor now and have the gas piping ran, with installation of heater at a later date. The builder mentioned he uses wet sprayed cellulose for the walls and dry blown in for the attic. Anyone else used the wet wall method? I have done some video searches, and it looks to be ok, and will not settle like what I saw before the dry pack cellulose for walls and with that I had a fear of settling.
 

kj_mustang

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I had replied earlier in this thread that I have wet blown cellulose in the walls. I found it to be the best insulation for the money. My attached garage has 2 x 6 walls with wet blown, and fiberglass batts in the ceiling with an unfinished room over it. I have two 2" insulated garage doors that face WNW into the prevailing winds and 4 windows. My radiant floor can hold it at 60 F with ease. Runs maybe once a day. If the doors don't open, it will stay 20 degrees above outside air with no heat. Make sure they wait until the cellulose is dried well before they hang the sheetrock.
 

Randy in Maine

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I would insulate the whole foundation with 2" of rigid foam. About $1 per square foot. It is cheap to run pex tubing through out the whole foundation also. Roughly 1 linear foot of 1/2 pex per square foot of foundation. Make it a few different zones (garage, house, and bedrooms).

Even if you don't use the radiant floor heat option right now, the hard work is done and you could hook it up to the house boilers down the road.

Never skimp on insulation. I used spray foam, rigid foam and SIP panels for my hose and garage.
 

wanderer

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I’m in a similar climate. I have a hanging heater that stays on about 45 all the time and gets cranked up in the 60s when I’m out there. 60,000 BTU is actually a little on the big side for my three car garage.
 

wanderer

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Also, I would insulate. Not because of heat lost but because you can’t do it later. It takes a day or two for me to bring the slab up to temperature. In the meantime the furnace is on and off all the time. If you use it like me you’ll probably have a limited benefit to the insulation but if you leave it on all the time it would be nice to have.

I do wish I had put some pex in the basement, garage, and driveway. Can’t go back and do it later.
 

jvitez

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In using a boiler for heating, what are the options for heat for the remainder of the house and also for cooling.

Thanks!

The sky's the limit! Oh, and your wallet. :)

A NG boiler allows you to do lot of things but not cooling. You'll still need an AC unit and air ducting in each room if you want AC.

The reason one of the most common ways to heat/cool a house in North America is a forced air furnace and whole house AC, is capital cost vs operating cost: one set of ducts, one furnace, one AC unit, done. Comfort? Not so much. Cold basements, OK main floor and too hot second story is the rule.

Maximum heating comfort is in-floor radiant heat, no question. Warm feet and cool head, nice. A friend has in-floor heat in his house and I'd much rather be at his place in the middle of winter than my own.

If you've decided on a boiler, your heating options are in-floor heat or fan coils with forced air heating. Why do fan coils? You can do both heating and cooling with them. Although it's easier with a geothermal system where the same heat pump heats and cools water. This is what we did. With a NG boiler you'll still need an AC unit. You can do multiple zones with fan coils but it gets complicated if you're trying that with one NG boiler, one AC unit and multiple zones.

With a NG boiler you can have an additional garage zone with in-floor PEX. You can also do a separate garage zone with a fan coil. One fan coil unit is cheaper than running PEX, but it's back to comfort vs cost.

Ideal heating and cooling: in-floor radiant heat with multiple zones and whole house ducting/main AC unit with HRV. This is higher capital cost as you'll need PEX tubing plus metal AC ducting or flexible hi-velocity AC ducting, but you'll have even, comfortable heat and proper whole house cooling. If your code requires an HRV you'll need air ducting anyway, so it wouldn't be that much more to do proper ducting to each room. If I were to build again (the Mrs. says never! :) ) this is what I'd do.

Biggest mistakes I did when building our house? Not installing floor heat in the garage and not finishing the garage when the house was being built.
 
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iowa4x4dieselman

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If I were to pipe the entire basement and garage for in floor heat. would the basement need insulation also or no since of its location below grade? I hear mixed opinions on this and I think I may know the answer, but you guys here are way smarter than me with the HVAC work.

Thanks,
 

kj_mustang

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The building codes in your area may require it if you tell them you are doing radiant floor heat. As with all insulation, better insulated areas require less energy to heat. My basement floor has R-10 XPS under the slab.
 

tyme2par4

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If I were to pipe the entire basement and garage for in floor heat. would the basement need insulation also or no since of its location below grade? I hear mixed opinions on this and I think I may know the answer, but you guys here are way smarter than me with the HVAC work.

Thanks,

Any slab you are planning to heat should have insulation, or a large portion of your heat is just going to be dispersed into the ground.
 
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iowa4x4dieselman

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Thank you for the insights so far. I will be asking the builder what the price is for him to supply the foam and tubes for basement and garage. There is a second hand foam supply I have found that will sell 2 inch sheets for $10 less than new. With me buying over 100 sheets I am hoping to get it cheaper than the big box stores ($30) if its within a couple dollars I think I will go with the new stuff to save some time and hassle.

Should the foundation walls be insulated as far as I can to ground level?

I will ask about heating/cooling options like have been mentioned (HRV)

This is planning to be our forever home, so as much as I hate spending money, I especially hate spending money twice because I cheaped out.
 

kj_mustang

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Talk to the builder about the waterproofing system for the exterior of the basement walls. I went with a sprayed on coating that then has .25" foam board put over it. Keeps the basement dry and gives some insulation. Between that and the R8 blanket insulation on the inside, my basement is very comfortable.
 
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iowa4x4dieselman

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Talk to the builder about the waterproofing system for the exterior of the basement walls. I went with a sprayed on coating that then has .25" foam board put over it. Keeps the basement dry and gives some insulation. Between that and the R8 blanket insulation on the inside, my basement is very comfortable.

Thank you for that, I will ask them. I think I have decided to put the tubes in the floor of the garage and basement. I have a quote from radiantec, and they have quoted me using 7/8 tubing in the garage(4x250') with 1/2 used in the basement(8x300').

Anyone here used radiantec before?

Is there a preferred location for the water heater? IE lower or higher? Should this be in garage or basement mechanical room?

With using a closed loop system does there need to be water access?

The foam cost is a sticking point for me as of right now. I am trying to source someone who offers a qty discount as I will be using over 100 4x8 sheets. If anyone has any recommendations I would appreciate it. I am located near the Quad Cities, but will travel if it will save me some $$$
 
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iowa4x4dieselman

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While performing some more research here I saw someone had used blue ridge company, so I thought I would reach out to them for a quote as well. There they quoted using 1/2 tube for all areas, and the quote was almost $1000 cheaper for the tubing/manifold setup. Also one of the differences was the method of attaching the tubes. Radiantec quoted using zipties, which I imagine would be securing this to the "hog panel" for the runs. Blue Ridge on the other hand quoted using staples to the foam.

Is either one of these ways acceptable?

Is one preferred over the other?

Tube size preference? What I have read is that the smaller tubes will have to be closer together due to there being more of it, but it provides a more even spread of the heat.

Radiantec quoted using floor manifold in the garage area, whereas blue ridge is using wall manifolds in both applications. I think I prefer the wall mounted to keep it off the floor, and have a cleaner appearance.
 

kj_mustang

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Is either one of these ways acceptable?

Is one preferred over the other?

Tube size preference? What I have read is that the smaller tubes will have to be closer together due to there being more of it, but it provides a more even spread of the heat.

Both acceptable, stapling down takes less labor time. Wire tie or zip tie the pex to the wire mesh works fine but is tough on your back. If you place your wire on concrete chairs and you saw cut control joints, then you may need to worry about distance of pex tubing to top of slab.

1/2" pex works fine as long as the heat/btu calculations and pex layout are planned for it. I purchased manifolds and pex from Blue ridge and was happy with the products.
 
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