Help. I just moved into a newly built home with a garage floor that is chipping at the expansion joints, puddling water at the door, has several areas with chips and is all different colors--especially around the walls. In addition, at the door, it slopes inwards toward the house. waterI have attached photos. The builder says the slab is fine, but I am concerned. I would like to put an epoxy or similar product over it, but I am worried about it structurally. I would very much appreciate any advice.
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New home with garage floor issues
- Thread starter dcl
- Start date
kngelv
Well-known member
They had a bad mix when they poured it or some weather issue like rain. If it slopes toward the house then you need to get that busted out and another slab poured. Get a good attorney if the builder won’t help. That is unacceptable.
James
James
rjacobs
Well-known member
The builder says the slab is fine
Shocker...
Time to pay a professional and a lawyer.
Talk to your realtor, im sure they know a lawyer that can help. Mine did.
Thank you for your replies. How do I tell it is a "bad pour"? Should the slab slope down toward the driveway at the pavers? The door closes on the pavers. Part of the garage seems to slope very slightly, most is level, and at the door it slopes back to the house...I really feel this garage is a mess and not just cosmetic...I also wonder about the part of the floor that seems to be missing the barrier during construction. What is the black tarp for and is this put down before the pour?
duneslider
Well-known member
In all honesty, this just looks like the typical production builder concrete work. There is nothing there that would warrant a full tear out. Sure, it isn't the highest quality work out there but its not that bad. People on this forum tend to be overly **** about everything and seem to live in an alternate universe where every trade is perfect and cheap and anything not done to perfection should be torn out at someone else's expense.
If you are going to have epoxy done then have it done. They will come grind the surface down and most of those defects will disappear and then they will put down a quality epoxy system and the rest of the defects will disappear and it will look great.
I certainly try to do my best work all the time but despite my best efforts sometimes things aren't 100% perfect, to expect perfection from overworked and underpaid trades seems like a pipe dream. Even when you are paying top dollar plus some it is hard to get perfection.
Its not uncommon to have some discoloration if they had to put protection down over a slab. Its not uncommon to have some bird baths in a slab. Its not uncommon to have some unevenness around the edges of a garage floor.
If you are going to have epoxy done then have it done. They will come grind the surface down and most of those defects will disappear and then they will put down a quality epoxy system and the rest of the defects will disappear and it will look great.
I certainly try to do my best work all the time but despite my best efforts sometimes things aren't 100% perfect, to expect perfection from overworked and underpaid trades seems like a pipe dream. Even when you are paying top dollar plus some it is hard to get perfection.
Its not uncommon to have some discoloration if they had to put protection down over a slab. Its not uncommon to have some bird baths in a slab. Its not uncommon to have some unevenness around the edges of a garage floor.
The above is the only answer. That said, bad concrete pour posts are all too common in here.If it slopes toward the house then you need to get that busted out and another slab poured.
We did bring it up and we are still within our one year warranty period. As far as the comment about this being not that bad…I am expecting this to be meeting code and industry standards. So that is primarily the question. I am not so concerned about discoloration as I am about pooling water and chipping cement. This was not an inexpensive home.
duneslider
Well-known member
Did you have conversations with the concrete guy about level of flatness they were being paid to achieve? Birdbaths are very common in concrete work. I would say it is more uncommon to not have birdbaths than to have a slab so perfect there are none. How deep are your birdbaths? I believe the pretty common flatness level is 1/4 variation over 10 feet. Do you exceed that?
Based on the picture it looks like the whole slab slopes towards the big door. It looks to me like you would have to have a significant amount of water before it flows the other way. I am just not seeing any major problems. They aren't going to tear a slab out over some chipped edges or some chips in the concrete. At most you are going to get some crappy chip repair work done but why bother with any of that if you are going to grind the whole thing to put epoxy on it? Grind it, patch any issues that might telegraph and coat the floor.
Based on the picture it looks like the whole slab slopes towards the big door. It looks to me like you would have to have a significant amount of water before it flows the other way. I am just not seeing any major problems. They aren't going to tear a slab out over some chipped edges or some chips in the concrete. At most you are going to get some crappy chip repair work done but why bother with any of that if you are going to grind the whole thing to put epoxy on it? Grind it, patch any issues that might telegraph and coat the floor.
Home warranties are mostly worthless. This is especially the case with expensive re-do/repairs. I'd follow the above advice of hiring an attorney if that slab indeed is sloped towards the front of the garage.We did bring it up and we are still within our one year warranty period.
We had a mat down and when I pulled it back, you can see that there is a difference in the colors. I don't have standing water there, but it is definitely a different color.What are you trying to show with the floormat pictures, do you have a moisture problem near the entry door to the house?
kngelv
Well-known member
Talk to the builder and get an attorney if necessary. This is poor concrete work. There is a big difference between expecting perfection and expecting competent work. If you have an entryway sloping toward the house then you need to fix it. Duneslider is giving you bad advice and bad excuses for crappy work. Listen to none of it.
James
James
duneslider
Well-known member
Where do you see it sloping towards the house door? I see the whole garage sloping out the big garage door. It looks like there might be some birdbaths and maybe a slightly poor corner but I don't see anything sloping towards the house. It looks to me like there is a couple inches of drop from the house to the outside.
I am not an expert regarding slope but I rolled a golf ball and it went toward the side wall rather than toward the door opening. Another ball went toward the driveway and then stopped and came back toward the house. It is definitely not a gentle slope out the door. Also the driveway pavers are higher than the garage floor.
I mentioned before settlement because the builder only does things so he can get paid. Once they have the money, they don't care about warranties or notice. In Delaware, they made a law that says if a builder is promising a clubhouse or pool, etc, they have to build it first. Previously, the builder would list a bunch of amenities, build all the houses that included a fee for building the clubhouse, etc but then state they were out of money and walk away. I was a Realtor for 15 years and worked for a builder for one year. I saw a lot worse than uneven concrete but I never saw a builder fix anything post settlement.We did bring it up and we are still within our one year warranty period. As far as the comment about this being not that bad…I am expecting this to be meeting code and industry standards. So that is primarily the question. I am not so concerned about discoloration as I am about pooling water and chipping cement. This was not an inexpensive home.
duneslider
Well-known member
The driveway pavers being proud of the garage is an issue but that isn't the concrete's fault. It sounds like there are some issues with the garage but based on the pictures its hard to say how bad.
I highly doubt you are going to get anything from the contractor. He is paid and done at this point and I don't think the quality is so bad that you could get a judge to side with you unless you can prove yours is worse than all the other houses in the subdivision that this builder did. I suspect you will find similar work in all the houses.
I highly doubt you are going to get anything from the contractor. He is paid and done at this point and I don't think the quality is so bad that you could get a judge to side with you unless you can prove yours is worse than all the other houses in the subdivision that this builder did. I suspect you will find similar work in all the houses.
CombatNinja
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2013
- Messages
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If you've closed and have been living in the house for some time, you're probably screwed.
ConCretin
Well-known member
Maybe I missed it but was the floor designed to slope toward the door or was it intended to be level? From the description, I'm assuming the latter. If that's the case, birdbaths and varying pitches as demonstrated by your golf ball experiment would be expected. There is no such thing as a perfectly flat floor although it's possible to get close with the right techniques and equipment if your are willing to pay.
A really good floor would exhibit no more than a 1/4" gap anywhere under a 10' straightedge. An excellent floor would be an 1/8". I'd guess the average residential garage doesn't even come close to the 1/4" standard. In any case, you'll get some puddles and a golf ball will meander on even the best floors.
The chipping probably occurred when they cut the control joints but in any case, it's not unusual. The spalls look like mechanical damage to me. De-lamination tends to be more like 'flaking' rather than 'cratering'.
I don't see anything all that troubling in the varying color. You don't say where you are but if you have moist soils and a marginal vapor barrier under the slab, you will get water vapor coming through the concrete, which might explain some of it.
Ironically the lack of an adequate under slab vapor barrier would be the biggest detriment to a successful epoxy installation. Make sure you do a moisture test before proceeding. Water vapor would likely cause your epoxy coating to fail.
I'll say this, It's not the best slab I've seen but there is no smoking gun in any of your photos that would support a demand for removal and replacement. You'd be wasting your time. There may be deeper issues with the slab but they're not evident and it's just as likely you have a perfectly serviceable slab.
A really good floor would exhibit no more than a 1/4" gap anywhere under a 10' straightedge. An excellent floor would be an 1/8". I'd guess the average residential garage doesn't even come close to the 1/4" standard. In any case, you'll get some puddles and a golf ball will meander on even the best floors.
The chipping probably occurred when they cut the control joints but in any case, it's not unusual. The spalls look like mechanical damage to me. De-lamination tends to be more like 'flaking' rather than 'cratering'.
I don't see anything all that troubling in the varying color. You don't say where you are but if you have moist soils and a marginal vapor barrier under the slab, you will get water vapor coming through the concrete, which might explain some of it.
Ironically the lack of an adequate under slab vapor barrier would be the biggest detriment to a successful epoxy installation. Make sure you do a moisture test before proceeding. Water vapor would likely cause your epoxy coating to fail.
I'll say this, It's not the best slab I've seen but there is no smoking gun in any of your photos that would support a demand for removal and replacement. You'd be wasting your time. There may be deeper issues with the slab but they're not evident and it's just as likely you have a perfectly serviceable slab.
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I would like to update your group with what has transpired. The builder came out and poured water in the garage which went straight to the wall rather than toward the garage door. They admitted the slope was wrong and there are low spots that collect water. They are proposing using "Rapid Dry Cement All" to level the floor. What do you think of this fix? Can I epoxy over that product and will it hold up over time? I very much appreciate all of your advice with our garage issue...
duneslider
Well-known member
I am not familiar with that product but I suspect it is not made to be used in feather edge applications like this. There are floor patching cements designed to do this sort of thing but I don't think that is one of them. Ardex is a big name in the game but most of these patching materials will want a primer first and then they are NOT a wear surface and need a final finish put over them. If epoxy is the plan I would want the floor prepped by the epoxy guys first and likely have them do the patching with products they know will work with their product. I'm not an epoxy expert so I can't say what they usually use.
ConCretin
Well-known member
I wouldn't accept that. The patch could fail and become an even bigger problem especially if you do epoxy.
The only surefire fix is to remove the defective concrete and replace it, which isn't as big a deal as it sounds like
There are materials and methods that could result in a long term repair but you have to know what you doing and they're not cheap either.
The only surefire fix is to remove the defective concrete and replace it, which isn't as big a deal as it sounds like
There are materials and methods that could result in a long term repair but you have to know what you doing and they're not cheap either.