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New House, Parking Frustration

wssix99

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Mar 2, 2011
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5,161
Location
Chicago, IL
It is called an easement, it is your property and it is not a public roadway.

No, it's something different. It's common in Cities and other types of municipalities to have these parkways (or whatever the local entity wants to call them) that are parts of the public right-of-way but the property owner adjacent to them is the caretaker. (So the property owner could be responsible for fixing any grass damage, rutting, etc.) It's different than an easement and often the area between the sidewalk and the street. (If there isn't a sidewalk, then it is often a prescribed distance from the street.)

Municipalities often use this space for utilities, also. The burden shifts to the local owners to take care of the small pieces of property because the logistics for the municipality to do it (cut the grass, etc.) would be daunting.
 
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woodturner9

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Feb 16, 2007
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576
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Indiana(ish)
Sorry. Not true. Information in the public domain is not considered identity theft.

Sorry, absolutely wrong. Personal information cannot be publicly posted without the owner's consent. Lots of people are in jail for having the same belief as you.
 

steveo1o9

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Joined
Oct 10, 2016
Messages
603
Location
Eastern MD
No, it's something different. It's common in Cities and other types of municipalities to have these parkways (or whatever the local entity wants to call them) that are parts of the public right-of-way but the property owner adjacent to them is the caretaker. (So the property owner could be responsible for fixing any grass damage, rutting, etc.) It's different than an easement and often the area between the sidewalk and the street. (If there isn't a sidewalk, then it is often a prescribed distance from the street.)

Municipalities often use this space for utilities, also. The burden shifts to the local owners to take care of the small pieces of property because the logistics for the municipality to do it (cut the grass, etc.) would be daunting.

It's just the right of way. Take a look at a tax map or go out and look at your front property corners. Most likely your property corner does not extend to the edge of pavement. Some older rural properties the property line can extend to the center line of the street but that is less common toady. For example the town may have a 30 ft ROW but the roadway is only 20 ft wide, therefore the first 5 feet of your lawn and the guys across the street is technically in the ROW. Of course you maintain that section but actually don't own that 5 feet. If possible the utilities are run within the ROW so they don't have to get easements from all the property owners. An easement is property that you own that others are allowed to access without permission. For example a drainage pipe or sewer line that is maintained by a municipality that is on your property. They can access, repair, dig up that area without your permission and in return you cannot place any permanent structures or alter the area.

Sorry just a lot of misinformation on what these terms actually mean.
 

joseywales

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Jun 23, 2017
Messages
1,307
Location
Southeastern, PA
Sorry, absolutely wrong. Personal information cannot be publicly posted without the owner's consent. Lots of people are in jail for having the same belief as you.

Googled my name:

Mylife.com
Nuwber.com
instantcheckmate.com

And the list goes on. All of these sites show variations of my address, my age, my relatives names, etc. I'd have to have attorney on retainer to prosecute these folks. While it technically is illegal, which I believe varies by state, there's no agency actively seeking out these individuals. It's up to the victim to discover it, then file suit, etc. Also, the question of "expected privacy", comes in to play. In today's age of technology, a defendant would have a strong argument that most people have little to no expectation of privacy. Not saying they'd win that, but it's strong argument. There are some federal laws against the collection of personal data, but again, who's chasing those folks down?

This is similar to ID theft and credit card fraud. These are non-violent crimes and as such receive passive enforcement. One exception is when the individual fraud exceeds $50,000, IRRC. At that point, the Secret Service and Treasury departments get involved, as homeland security becomes a concern. Even then, their resources are strained to make significant impact.
 

nh_yota

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Mar 10, 2015
Messages
4,077
Location
Seacoast New Hampshire
Where do we debate the structural integrity of the pavement and if the heavy barricades will cause the street to cave in, or not???

Oh right I forgot that step and the one about whether you should should rent a mixer and mix your own concrete or just order premixed.
 

Eslader

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Joined
Feb 27, 2013
Messages
674
Sorry, absolutely wrong. Personal information cannot be publicly posted without the owner's consent. Lots of people are in jail for having the same belief as you.

Actually, yes it can. Ever watch the news and they say so-and-so was charged with murder? Think that guy wants his personal information, including his name and photograph and life history out there?

It's a first amendment thing. Once you're in possession of the information, assuming you did not sign a secrecy agreement, you can publish it.

Plus, if what you said was true, then publishers of phone books would be in jail.
 

garagelogician

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Joined
Jan 27, 2016
Messages
453
Location
Blaine, MN
It is called an easement, it is your property and it is not a public roadway.

What that means is that a cop, fireman, city worker and utility company can park, dig it up etc... but not the general public.

It really depends on what area you live in. There are differences between states, and what type of lot you have. If you are in a rural area, you can own up to the centerline of the road.

But...if you are in a platted subdivision...your lot lines are (generally speaking) 15-ft or so from the curb, with an additional easement that is on your property (10-ft is typical around here). This can vary by development type and when the lot was platted. Also, the road is not always perfectly centered in the right-of-way.

The attached aerial photo is the development where I live. I only own that which is within my lot lines. The 15-ft strip of grass, landscaping, driveway, sprinklers between the curb and my lot line is not my property. I don't pay taxes on it, I just maintain it. I would not be allowed to park a vehicle in the grass there on a regular basis, but if a construction worker or other person was parked there temporarily...the police would be unlikely to do anything about it short of asking them to kindly move it. Anyone of the general public can walk there, protest, do yoga or dance a jig.

The additional 10-ft easement on the front of my lot can contain utilities, storm sewer pipes, etc and can be dug up for any reason...but I still own it and could trespass someone other than a utility/city worker performing work.
 

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05r50

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Jan 12, 2013
Messages
195
Sorry, absolutely wrong. Personal information cannot be publicly posted without the owner's consent. Lots of people are in jail for having the same belief as you.

We are more than likely confusing terms, such as personal information, privacy, identity theft etc.

That said, when it comes to individuals and personal information the Commonwealth of Mass. has long been considered to have the toughest statute in the country when it comes to this topic. Many states Attorneys General offices defer to Mass as the standard if their state does not have a specific law. You can read it here.http://www.mass.gov/ago/doing-business-in-massachusetts/privacy-and-data-security/standards-for-the-protection-of-personal.html


In short, unless it contains multiple parts of different information it is NOT a violation. From the text;

"Personal information, a Massachusetts resident's first name and last name or first initial and last name in combination with any one or more of the following data elements that relate to such resident: (a) Social Security number; (b) driver's license number or state-issued identification card number; or (c) financial account number, or credit or debit card number, with or without any required security code, access code, personal identification number or password, that would permit access to a resident’s financial account; provided, however, that “Personal information” shall not include information that is lawfully obtained from publicly available information, or from federal, state or local government records lawfully made available to the general public."

Phone number is not called out.
 

isb cornbinder

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Nov 3, 2010
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7,073
Location
Pacific South West, BC, Canada
The two bedroom, 1000 square foot house next door sold for just over a million dollars. Within days a track-hoe had demolished the old house. The new basement hole was big enough to bury the original house. Two years later there is a monster house next door. It is 4700 square feet, 7 bedrooms, 7 bathrooms on the two floors above ground. In the basement there are two rental suite. The house was built with a resale to off shore, non-resident speculators in mind. The unwritten rule, here, is each bedroom is occupied by a person with a car. I make that number 9 vehicles after the house sells for $4.5 million. There are 6 vehicles connected to the house next door, today. Three park in the lane access parking on the property and the others are in the front street. So far, so good.
 

johninct

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Joined
Dec 21, 2010
Messages
2,596
A big telephone company pole truck did that to me. He parked in the same spot, ate his lunch, played with his phone and cut up the area with his truck. The only problem, the town owns that little strip so I was SOL!
 

driftpin

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Dec 22, 2016
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Miami-Dade/Broward Co. Florida
I am not a real estate attorney.

This guy is correct, and there were a couple other prior posters who had essentially the same info.

Old 'metes and bounds' legal descriptions will often mark a property limit to the centerline of the road. This is common in old legal maps and in rural areas.

As property is purchased for development in more-urban areas, the division of land is required to be 'platted.' This assigns planned lot sizes that meet the regulations locally for lot size, % of plot coverage for development of housing, or commercial or industrial use.

As part of the plat approval process, the land is subdivided to meet the land development code as-adopted by the authority having jurisdiction. In rural settings this is often a county government. If the land is within the boundaries of a village or township, or a city, then there are usually more-restrictive criteria which will need to be met for the subdivision of the property. Part of the process for development is compliance with a 'future land use' plan which is required for all areas of a certain population, even if your land area is allowed a current density of 1 dwelling unit per 10 acres. There will be other areas of real property within the county, let us say, that will have much-higher allowable density. The larger county area will have a 'future land use' plan that specifies land use, density, and generally, development.

As you move into the smaller areas occupied by villages, townships, and cities, more-restrictive regulations typically referred to a zoning come into play. They often are found in the land development code for that particular jurisdiction, villages, townships, and cities.

Someone has a 640 acre plot of land that has an old 'metes and bounds' legal description. That's one square mile. They want to develop it. They submit a plan to sub-divide the land. Because of the 'future land use' plan, and the local governmental jurisdiction zoning regulations/land development code, they are allowed to have X, Y and Z densities of housing, A, B, and C uses for commercial development, and D, E, and F uses for industrial development. They will also have to consider open space for recreation, utilities, roadways, and probably a unit cost per dwelling unit to go into a fund for schools. And, don't forget public safety needs: police, fire, and EMS.

So the area where housing for single family dwellings is subdivided into lots of record. When this is done, the lots do not extend 'to the middle of the road.' There is a right-of-way established which takes into account the number of lanes of surface streets. Since this is going to be single family homes inside a subdivision, the planning firm consults the land development code and determines the minimum size of right of way that can be used. The right of way typically includes a roadway, a swale on either side, a pedestrian walkway, a utility easement, and other easements that meet the needs of development like drainage easements.

So the right of way is 45 ft wide. That's 22-1/2 ft on either side of the roadway centerline. Allocate 10 ft of paved roadway, each direction leaving 12-1/2 ft. Now allocate a 7-1/2 ft swale and a 5 ft pedestrian walkway carved-out of the right of way. That's your right of way utilization. The utility easement is usually part of the swale measurement, and may be called-out as for example 4 ft for utilities, and 3-1/2 ft for the remaining swale, which is used for drainage of the impervious roadway's runoff rainwater.

The property owners plot of land as-shown on the plat map does not run to the center of the street. The plot is the homeowner's land boundaries of record, on which he pays taxes. The plat is the official record of the subdivided land the developer has approved for development. This shows the plots of the individual homeowners' parcels of record, the rights of way which are typically deeded to the local government, and because of this are removed from the tax rolls. Once the developer makes the site improvements in civil engineering required to develop the land, and it is turned over to the local government, the developer no longer owns it, nor is responsible for its maintenance or taxes. Since the right of way is now owned by the village, township, city, or county, it comes-off the tax rolls.

In cases where the 'metes and bounds' descriptions place homeowners' boundaries to the center of the roadways, if the homeowners have never deeded rights of way to the local government, they are responsible for maintenance of the roadway and taxes, as they do own the roadway.

Utilities servicing these areas will have some type of recorded instrument allowing them to place power lines, water service, sewage lines, gas lines or whatever other utilities across the individual lots in order to service them. It is not uncommon for the only utilities allowed to be electric and telephone lines, with water and sewage to be provided by each homeowner via wells and septic tanks/fields.

So the bottom line is that in platted subdivisions, for the privilege of being allowed to develop the land, the property developers give land for rights of way to the local government. Within the rights of way are roadways, walkways, utility easements, and other easements and allocations of the land to meet the needs of the land development. Your property boundary stops where the right of way begins, and your property responsibilities are usually to maintain the area between the edge of the pavement and the plot boundary for your piece of land, on which your home rests.

Some jurisdictions do not allow swale parking, others allow it for the residents, but not for overnight parking of commercial trucks. This is spelled out in your zoning regulations, and two places to find nearly all of these are municode.com and American Legal Publishing. You can also look at your governmental jurisdiction's website, and find a link to probably either one of these websites.

Can the worker park in front of your home, on a swale that you must maintain? Unfortunately, if swale parking is allowed, the answer is probably in nearly-all cases, 'yes.' If it is a designated commercial vehicle (look for the weight values which are supposed to be posted on a commercial vehicle) then it may be required to meet some daylight time code parking regulation. They cannot block your egress from your home to the roadway, and there may be some line-of-sight triangle dimensional measurement where the driveway intersects the roadway pavement. This is to provide you with a line of sight to exit your driveway safely.

Problems like this can be frustrating, and if you get carried-away, dangerous to your health. Try the reasoned approach, and if that gets you nowhere, you tried. Then call the authorities in blue with the badges and see what happens.

I hold certifications as a plans examiner, fire inspector, and life safety code inspector. I have worked as all of these, and as a planner.

Taking some pictures before the work starts, and the parking by vehicles other than your vehicles tears-up the land, may give you some leverage in getting the contractor to assume responsibility for damage to the swale that you are responsible for maintaining. Take it to the building dept who issued the permits for the work being done, ask to speak with the building official, and if you get the brush-off, be sure to inform them your next stop is going to be the city manager's office, the town or village administrator's office, or the county manager's office.


It really depends on what area you live in. There are differences between states, and what type of lot you have. If you are in a rural area, you can own up to the centerline of the road.

But...if you are in a platted subdivision...your lot lines are (generally speaking) 15-ft or so from the curb, with an additional easement that is on your property (10-ft is typical around here). This can vary by development type and when the lot was platted. Also, the road is not always perfectly centered in the right-of-way.

The attached aerial photo is the development where I live. I only own that which is within my lot lines. The 15-ft strip of grass, landscaping, driveway, sprinklers between the curb and my lot line is not my property. I don't pay taxes on it, I just maintain it. I would not be allowed to park a vehicle in the grass there on a regular basis, but if a construction worker or other person was parked there temporarily...the police would be unlikely to do anything about it short of asking them to kindly move it. Anyone of the general public can walk there, protest, do yoga or dance a jig.

The additional 10-ft easement on the front of my lot can contain utilities, storm sewer pipes, etc and can be dug up for any reason...but I still own it and could trespass someone other than a utility/city worker performing work.
 
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wasfuzz

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Nov 16, 2010
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755
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Mn
In some cases this may be the center line of the street,
And the roadway (not the part you drive on - but the roadway as plated) may be 40' wide with a paved road within that 40' and it may be not paved directly in the middle of the "roadway" but offset to either side. so the right of way may be a short distance or a long distance from the edge of the pavement.
If you had a survey done when you purchased your house you should be able to tell.
 
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Bluedodge

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Jun 22, 2015
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Michigan (not the Detroit part)
Run over to Menard's, Lowes, or Home Depot and grab a dozen or so of these:
HD_18.jpg


They're all of $1.68 each at Menard's: https://www.menards.com/main/outdoo...-posts/48-driveway-marker/p-1444423365407.htm

I had my good friend Melanie demonstrate how flexible they are:
modelstake1.jpg



...next problem please.
 
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ddawg16

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Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Messages
21,005
Location
S. California
Run over to Menard's, Lowes, or Home Depot and grab a dozen or so of these:

I had my good friend Melanie demonstrate how flexible they are:
modelstake1.jpg



...next problem please.

So....just how good of a friend is Melanie?

Feel free to have her demonstrate other 'things'....
 

mmb617

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Dec 5, 2010
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4,424
Location
PA
Wow, has this been an entertaining thread! So many internet tough guys using spike stirips, seeding nails, cutting valve stems, dragging vehicles away and generally beating the snot out of those who violate what they perhaps incorrectly think is their property.

I expect these kind of responses on YB where most posters are obviously middle school kids trying to be big shots, but here? Geez, you'd think we supposed adults would be a little more mature.
 
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fowldarr

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Oct 23, 2009
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Coastal Oregon
Thanks for all the advice guys. It really is appreciated. If you read the whole thread, I know where the right of way (what we call it here) begins and ends. Wasn't ever the real issue.

This problem will not be solved by violence, vandalism, or ******** assaulting anybody else's wife. I'm a bit disturbed that any of these were even presented as options. Then again, maybe I shouldn't be.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

wssix99

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Mar 2, 2011
Messages
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Location
Chicago, IL
Wow, has this been an entertaining thread! So many internet tough guys using spike stirips, seeding nails, cutting valve stems, dragging vehicles away and generally beating the snot out of those who violate what they perhaps incorrectly think is their property.

I expect these kind of responses on YB where most posters are obviously middle school kids trying to be big shots, but here? Geez, you'd think we supposed adults would be a little more mature.

You need to read all the posts...

This thread isn't talking about violating someone's non-property. It's about disrespecting the Mrs.

If someone is rude, ignores posted signs, insults one's spouse, or is an outright **** after a one nicely raises an issue or asks for some thoughtful consideration (like happened here) - that will cause an escalated response.
 

DCarr2

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Dec 12, 2015
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Akron NY
Sadly no one brought this up so i will.... lol

from a purely technical stand point its not your property. in fact it is illegal in the USA to own 'real'property. regardless of what paperwork you have that states otherwise.

you merely 'lease' the property from your county.

Dont believe me? stop paying your taxes and see how long you 'own' it
 
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fowldarr

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Oct 23, 2009
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Coastal Oregon
Geez, I hate to resurrect this thread, but it's happening again. I have a circular driveway, I go to leave this morning and one side is blocked by a running truck (no driver). I run the kids to school and come back, and he's gone, but there is somebody parked on the grass (RoW). At this point, they are two weeks away from completion, and the parking situation on the other side of the street is currently non-existent (fresh driveway, and getting ready to pour sidewalk), so I understand, but WHY CAN'T they just come ask, I'll seriously let them park in my driveway (it's big, plenty of room), if they just ask where they can park that is out of the way.

People.

Thanks for listening to me rant. I'm going to see if I can by some of those orange poles somebody proposed above.
 

Handyandy23

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Nov 8, 2017
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Ontario, Canada
Sadly no one brought this up so i will.... lol

from a purely technical stand point its not your property. in fact it is illegal in the USA to own 'real'property. regardless of what paperwork you have that states otherwise.

you merely 'lease' the property from your county.

Dont believe me? stop paying your taxes and see how long you 'own' it

What does this have to do with anything? Does that mean I can park in your driveway or watch TV in your living room in my underpants?
 
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fowldarr

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Oct 23, 2009
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Coastal Oregon
It was his .02 cents, and applies in this case due to the RoW issue that allows them to legally park on grass that I maintain. Interestingly, according to the local boys in blue, they can legally park there, but they cannot legally destroy my property (my property being the grass in this case). So, I could pursue that angle. At this point, I'll wander home at lunch, I'll talk to the contractor (again), and he'll have his guys park down the street (mostly it's the subcontractors that are actually the issue).
 

EOC_Jason

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Jun 25, 2012
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Location
Bentonville, AR
That would require effort on their part... Most people are lazy a-holes that DNGAF... Soon enough it will be done and you won't have to worry...

... but WHY CAN'T they just come ask, I'll seriously let them park in my driveway (it's big, plenty of room), if they just ask where they can park that is out of the way.
 

ard

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Feb 16, 2015
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Sierra Foothills... California
It was his .02 cents, and applies in this case due to the RoW issue that allows them to legally park on grass that I maintain. Interestingly, according to the local boys in blue, they can legally park there, but they cannot legally destroy my property (my property being the grass in this case). So, I could pursue that angle. At this point, I'll wander home at lunch, I'll talk to the contractor (again), and he'll have his guys park down the street (mostly it's the subcontractors that are actually the issue).

Hmmm. Not sure about that. I wouldn't rely on the boys in blue for legal guidance... If the locale allows parking in the RoW, and you chose to place grass there and that grass is damaged by an allowable act, not sure you have a claim. Lets say you planned tulips along the RoW? Small trees? Gingerbread houses?

Anyway, hopefully it is over soon....
 
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fowldarr

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Coastal Oregon
Let me clarify, it's because of the way the Right of Way is listed and the way the road turns in relation to my property (I've been over this with the city manager as well). Technically, the spot they are parking on does not have a true legal RoW because the road was re-routed at some point in history and it was not updated (the actual RoW goes through the neighbors kitchen) I could technically build a structure where they are parking, but it would be inadvisable.

Most cities list RoW as 'x' feet from established roadway. Not in this case, it was actually defined by survey, and then they built the road differently than planned. It's all quite interesting. I also own a piece of the golf course, but if they want to mow it, they can have it (and since they have for years, they have essentially established ownership).

I recommend that everybody pull out actual surveys of their plot lines, you learn a lot of interesting things that way.

All that said, it's a couple of weeks, they'll be done. The new owner is a nice guy and I don't expect any issues from him, so it's all good in the long run.
 
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