New HVAC System

[Rich M.]

I am hoping to finish out the summer with my currant Trane HVAC system. From researching various articles, it appears Carrier and Trane are the top contender for residential installation.

Recently, I spoke to a local installer and his choice is Amana. His reason is that Amana AC units are cheaper in price for a cost savings to the owner and the product line is high quality. Also depending on what model you buy, the compressor is lifetime (part only).

I also spoke to an installer from our local power company and he suggested to stay in the middle of the road when choosing a model. He said some of the upper models parts may have to be ordered because generic parts do not normally work, example is the blower motor.

What is the plus/minus of a two-stage compressor?

Okay, so I am looking for thoughts and opinions

 

[LS6 Tommy]

I'm not a big Carrier fan and I do like Trane. I'd stay away from any super high efficiency or "feature rich" units. DO NOT GET ANYTHING WITH MICROCHANNEL COILS!!

I find I fix the "technology" end of things more than the hardware.

Most importantly, the quality of the installation is more important than the brand, all things being equal.

Tommy

 

[yeldogt]

I have been using the Carrier equipment since the mid 90's --- I like to zone and they have the best zone control systems IMO. They also have been a leader in the multi speed equipment that I have been using since mid 00's.

So far one fix on a system about 10 years ago ... covered under warranty.

Amana is Goodman -- they are owned by Daikin. IMO -- looks like the newest equipment is good middle of the road stuff. Goodman bought Amana years ago and put the label on the better stuff. Goodman was for many years "builder grade" stuff that anybody could purchase -- so every "hack" installed Goodman. Lots of Goodman problems being from the bad installs -- it was basic equipment. louder etc. Daikin bought Goodman and upgraded the line giving it a great warranty .. sort of the Hyundai of the HVAC world. It looks like good stuff .... all things equal I would still buy the Carrier ... For one of my rentals installed by a good company where I'm using single speed compressor ... it would be fine.

All the major companies make decent middle of the road equipment -- many times decisions come down to rebates on SEER level. Make sure to look at the sound levels if unit is installed where noise will be any issue ... the better stuff is silent. if house has any humidity issues the better systems with 2speed and above compressors really help.

 

[Jim greengo]

I'm not a big Carrier fan and I do like Trane. I'd stay away from any super high efficiency or "feature rich" units. DO NOT GET ANYTHING WITH MICROCHANNEL COILS!!

I find I fix the "technology" end of things more than the hardware.

Most importantly, the quality of the installation is more important than the brand, all things being equal.

Tommy

What he said!

 

[yeldogt]

What he said!

What did he say ?

 

[Rich M.]

A lot of good information so far. Thanks.

What advantages are there in using a two-stage compressor over a single stage?

Anyone actually have an Amana system?

Thanks, Rich

 

[yeldogt]

Two stage equipment is just that -- the compressor has the ability to run at two speeds. When loads are done on a building the unit is sized for the worst case -- so with AC it's the hottest day. Systems with the ability to adjust can run in the lower speed most of the time --this saves energy but more important allows for longer run times that will provide greater comfort and lower inside humidity. Units are available with 5 speeds and full variable speed. Mini splits have full VS .. they adjust to the output needed. These unit also have multi speed fans inside and out to match this.

Amana is just a brand -- If you look at the Goodman site you will see the same cases and colors. They use Amana for the better line. There is some overlap with some being the same in both Goodman and Amana. The Amana has a very nice warranty.

My Carrier dealer sells the Amana line as a more affordable alternative -- I would not be afraid to use.

In the best units I see they use swing compressors and a scroll for the 5T ... scroll for the others. In many cases manufacturers use the same compressors -- you have to do a bit of investigation.

 

[Rich M.]

In the best units I see they use swing compressors and a scroll for the 5T ... scroll for the others. In many cases manufacturers use the same compressors -- you have to do a bit of investigation.

Okay, got the two speed compressor down.

Now I am back out of my knowledge zone when the conversation goes to “swing” or “scroll” compressors, so to put an end to my potentially bothersome posts, what are the things that I should avoid in selecting a system. My need is a 3T AC and 80% efficient furnace. I do not want to cheap out, but I also don’t want to sell my blood to pay for it. My HVAC hope is longevity.

 

[yeldogt]

A proper load should be done on the house -- that way you know what is required. The current system may or may not be correct.

Is there anything about the current system you don't like? Noise -- rooms not proper temps ... any humidity problems. Do you need to overcool the house to be comfortable.

I guess with an 80% you don't have many degree days for heat -- 80's can be fine for many applications. How is your electric rates ? -- sometimes running a heat pump when it warmer out can be cheaper.

Are you home all the time ? We work at home many days -- so my home have decent systems that are quiet.

 

[My Old Tools]

Anybody notice MrCool has a split system for DYI now? Uses the mini-split type compressor technology.

 

[Git]

We recently replaced our 2nd floor AC and furnace. Our 17 year old, 4 ton Carrier AC bit the dust in May.

Ended up going with a Costco Contractor and their top of the line Lenox system. It was more than we initially wanted to spend but overall, I am pleased with the purchase. first of all I can not believe how quite the outdoor unit is when it runs. And, it has finally sunk in with my wife why we went with a variable speed model. She told me just yesterday that she realizes when the 1st floor AC or Furnace kicks on during the summer she would get too cold and the winter she would get to hot but that doesn't happen now with the new 2nd floor unit. It's all about comfort. Lastly, the new unit should be a lot more efficient than the old one. They claim *up to* 26 seer, and of course that is going to depending on ducting, etc, but I would be happy if we could get in the low 20's. HERS testing is next week

Bottom line - how long do you plan on staying in that house?

I would say - how lon

 

[yeldogt]

Anybody notice MrCool has a split system for DYI now? Uses the mini-split type compressor technology.

I mentioned it a while back .. it's very interesting.

 

[yeldogt]

We recently replaced our 2nd floor AC and furnace. Our 17 year old, 4 ton Carrier AC bit the dust in May.

Ended up going with a Costco Contractor and their top of the line Lenox system. It was more than we initially wanted to spend but overall, I am pleased with the purchase. first of all I can not believe how quite the outdoor unit is when it runs. And, it has finally sunk in with my wife why we went with a variable speed model. She told me just yesterday that she realizes when the 1st floor AC or Furnace kicks on during the summer she would get too cold and the winter she would get to hot but that doesn't happen now with the new 2nd floor unit. It's all about comfort. Lastly, the new unit should be a lot more efficient than the old one. They claim *up to* 26 seer, and of course that is going to depending on ducting, etc, but I would be happy if we could get in the low 20's. HERS testing is next week

Bottom line - how long do you plan on staying in that house?

I would say - how lon

This is what I try and tell everybody -- unless you try you don't understand. Most of the HVAC people don't understand because they don't have one in the house where they live. It's like spray foam .. unless you live in a house with it you just don't get how great it is.

The better equipment may or may not save you money -- it about quiet comfort.

 

[Jim greengo]

What did he say ?

Install is the most important piece of the puzzle

 

[yeldogt]

Install is the most important piece of the puzzle

My point was he really did not say anything to help the OP.

How do you make sure the install is correct?

All too often it's the homeowner starting out to save money by not getting someone who is willing to do it correctly ... Installers not willing or able to do proper sizing or have any understanding of ductwork.

 

[SouthCoastMudder]

Not trying to steal OP post but I am in the same boat, limping my 15 year old trane. I was going to make it through summer but I have a leak in the condenser now and had to top it off again so I am researching what my best path forward is.

I have a guy coming out Saturday with the intentions of putting a new condenser, and I told him go ahead and replace the coil while messing with it. Question is should I upgrade to a 2 stage condenser? Can I even do that, or does that require changing more pieces?

 

[Git]

Not trying to steal OP post but I am in the same boat, limping my 15 year old trane. I was going to make it through summer but I have a leak in the condenser now and had to top it off again so I am researching what my best path forward is.

I have a guy coming out Saturday with the intentions of putting a new condenser, and I told him go ahead and replace the coil while messing with it. Question is should I upgrade to a 2 stage condenser? Can I even do that, or does that require changing more pieces?

Does your system use R22?

 

[yeldogt]

Bosch makes a great condenser upgrade if it works with your evaporator ....my brother did two of them at his place in SC. Really cool how they work

 

[SouthCoastMudder]

Git, yes it is currently and R-22 system, that’s why I wanted to change coil and condenser to 410A.

 

[Rich M.]

Okay, so far my take is:

1. Carrier and Trane are well liked
2. A higher SEER may or may not be better
3. Two-stage Compressor
4. Quiet unit
5. Installation is key

This is all helpful. Now let’s move to installation. As in my number 5 - installation is key, which makes perfect sense. Now how does the average person figure this out? If I check reviews most home owners will say it is a great system and the installer did a wonderful job.

My guess this endorsement is probably based on the fact the house is cool.

What should I look for when selecting an installer? What should I look for during or after installation?

 

[Git]

Git, yes it is currently and R-22 system, that’s why I wanted to change coil and condenser to 410A.

The problem I ran into - is my unit was 17 years old. Expected life of the furnace is around 20 years. Sure it could go longer or who know, it could fail tomorrow - anybody's guess.

So we could have upgraded just the AC side but then we would be limiting ourselves because the thermostat and everything also has to work with the furnace side. In the end, since we plan on being in this house for quite a while, we decided to just replace everything, including a new line-set

 

[yeldogt]

Does MD have any energy programs .... energy audits. Some states have fantastic programs .. other not at all.

 

[Tica]

The problem I ran into - is my unit was 17 years old. Expected life of the furnace is around 20 years. Sure it could go longer or who know, it could fail tomorrow - anybody's guess.

So we could have upgraded just the AC side but then we would be limiting ourselves because the thermostat and everything also has to work with the furnace side. In the end, since we plan on being in this house for quite a while, we decided to just replace everything, including a new line-set

If the furnace still had some good years left - you can replace the r-22 with R407C and get more years out of the ac without needing any R22. You will have to have to add some POE oil to the compressor after you evacuate the r-22, but the thermal performance of the refrigerants is about equal.

The reason I know is my son just did that to one of my two 30 year old ICP/Arcoaire condensors and is continues to cool as it always did. I have to swap out the compressor in the other one. A 25 pound tank of r407c will run about $130-140 with tax.

 

[nadogail]

IMHO, your system specifier and installer can make or break any job.

Look for the installer with the best local reputation. They did not get a good reputation by installing ****.

 

[Tre900]

This is a good tip, but most folks looking to DIY are not doing so because they are retired and just interested in having fun. I'm in a pretty tight spot with temps rising and costs affordable. To go hire the folks with the best rep, they are pricing out customers in my area due to increased volume. Good for them, bad for my pocket book.

Where is a good place to actually purchase some of these units or DIY kits?