New install garage door issues...

[HunterDan]

So after waiting over a month for my new door, supposedly custom order, they came to install it last week. Everything went great, I had to leave for work while they hung the last panel. Left the balance check with him. Got home that night and I see s door that's 2" short.

Called first am and cancelled my check. Then called the company. The installer kept trying to tell me no big deal just put a 2x4 up there and wrap it in some metal to pad the header down to make up that gap. I told him that's not happening and I'm gonna have to talk to the salesman because I'm not doing that.

Fast forward a few days, the installer and salesman come back out to meet with my builder and I. They first stick to they want to just pad the header down, and again I told them that's not an option. I spent years of savings on this building and I'm not about to ghetto rig the door opening because they messed up. Then he said he wants to snap on an extended weather seal on the bottom, which will give me an inch and a half, then the weather strip on top will cover the 1/2" that's left. Again I told him that's not an option as I'm paying for an r19 door, I'm not having an 18' wide by 1/2" cap covered with thin vinyl.

Basically at this point I want the door replaced with a proper size one, or just put a longer top panel in. Then they start in on telling me anything bigger won't work, as there won't be enough down pressure on it, and the wall mounted lift master will not work. (I'm no door guy, but I don't understand that logic) my builder and I questioned multiple times about the reasons, and they would just stumble around the subject giving no answer.

Finally he told me he'll go back to the office and see what they want to do. It's been 4 days, haven't heard anything. I'm going to call in a bit here.

The building is 40x48x16, the door is 14x18, but there's a weather lip on the floor, so the door height is 14' 1.5". He came out twice and measured before it was ordered.

Am I being to harsh here? Sorry for the long read, and thanks for any input!

 

[ford33]

Sounds like they did not measure the opening correctly or the plans provided were not correct. It's been four days and no word from them. I would call them and get a decision by mid-next week.

They should replace all the panels or make it right by you. If you put a wider top panel, will that make the door look odd? I believe the human eye can see a 2 inch wide difference in the panels.

 

[North Run Grader]

Do you have the paper trail? Even when I got a quote on a common 7x9 door R19 I received a paper quote. Even emails as long as you can print them would count. With the paperwork in hand with exact size and an order date, they have to make good. If you have a building log book, did you log the date, time, and name of the person taking the order? There's an acronym in the towing industry, Cover Your A$$, CYA, with the proof, they will let have to eat the cost of delivery, and installation of the wrong product. Otherwise you may end up eating those, and they'll leave a bad taste.

Track down any paperwork you have, and start from there. Any further orders, a yellow legal pad and clipboard, date time, name, company, product, and any related notes. Do not remove any sheets from the pad, and be scrupulous about your notes. CYA

 

[ambenz]

Good to hear you cancelled the check...they are going to have to make good. Don't pay another dime until they make good! You are not being unreasonable....

 

[jstroede]

Was the concrete poured when they measured? Did they actually measure or go off of the plans or building specs for the door height?

This is almost certainly not a simple replace a panel job. Most likely this will require replacing the entire door, including track and all sections.

John

 

[wssix99]

Basically at this point I want the door replaced with a proper size one, or just put a longer top panel in. Then they start in on telling me anything bigger won't work, as there won't be enough down pressure on it

Well, that's a matter of perspective. It is probably true that you can't just put a bigger door in there. A bigger door (even by an inch or two) will mean new tracks. (If you don't have a high lift system.) New tracks probably means a slightly different torsion spring. So, if you want the proper door - everything they installed originally is probably destined for the dumpster.

and the wall mounted lift master will not work.

Do you have a picture of this? Unless you have a short ceiling, this is probably BS.


Don't let them cash that check! They are going to run away from you - for sure!!!

 

[Streetbu]

I wouldn't be happy either but why is the opening 14' 1.5"? Why wasn't it framed to 14'? I didnt even know they could make oddball sizes like 1.5" extra height. Usually it's one foot at a time, sometimes two feet...

 

[naturalgas]

I just went thru this the other day.Waited six weeks for garage doors and the front 18x10 is 1" shy of the opening. I have pvc trim so I will have to add another piece of 5/4 stock before they can install the weather seal. But why would it be the door company's fault? I think the doors come in two foot panels. Am I wrong? I'm thinking my GC screwed up. Although when they measured opening the garage door salesman should have known then and gave me a heads up and I would have had it done for install. I have a smaller 6x8 door on side of my bldg and that fit perfect so that is my reasoning why is it the door company's fault in either case yours or mine. I'm at, it is the architect , excavator, framers, slab guys fault (pick one)which all falls back on the GC I hired and paid dearly to oversee. I'm pissed , but I will get over it. Here is a pic of my door with gap.


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[readhead]

Why wasn't the opening framed for a 14' door? I have a funny feeling that there is more going on here. By the way, you wrote a bad check. They don't have to do anything and they can take you to court and collect three times the bill. I know why you stopped payment but that move could end up hurting you.

If the plans called out for a 14' door I would be talking to the GC and asking what he is going to do to fix it since it sounds like the opening wasn't framed correctly.

 

[gnpenning]

Hard to say at this point who's to blame. Your paperwork should help with the issue.
For now it's a good idea to hold some payment until it's worked out.

Have you taken any measurements of the opening yourself?

Door measurements are always width by height. 18'x14' should be 18' wide and 14' high. Anything needing over 14' high will be oversize going down the road and in many areas much lower. I just got done doing 2- 20'x18' and 1- 18'x18' on the same building. This is a hay storage barn that is farm hand proof. There is no way one of there loaders with a bale of hay all the way up can hit the doors when open and wide opening that will have cemented in steel post inside and out to protect the tracks. Custom needs can be meet within limits.

For the life of me I do not understand why people make oddball size openings and expect the door manufactures to make standard doors to fit every oddball size they can come up with??? It is much easier to make the opening correct for the door. This is not saying you shouldn't have an opening that you can get what ever you want to go in and out of it.

You can have some doors custom cut. But with raise panel and special design doors you are handcuffed to get a proper look and not cut the design in half. You can get an 18' wide or a 18'2" door with out any cutting. For height you can change heights in 3" increments for residential doors, 8',8'3",8'6",8'9". This gives you a wide range of options. There should never be a 1 1/2" change in door sizes in any directions. Yes, I've done some custom wood ones that have had some oddball measurements, but's that wood not R19 steel. Someone missed here. After looking at your paper work and measuring you will know who.

 

[HunterDan]

Thank you for all the replies!

As for the opening, it is 14' from floor to ceiling, but adding the weather lip, which is where that 1.5" extra comes in. So I would need a 14'3" door, which would be fine.

The door salesman keeps telling me that it is a custom door.. If it's a custom door, there should be no reason I couldn't get it 14'3.

I talked to him yesterday, he said they ordered some parts, and are going to bring them up next week to see if they will work

 

[srleen2]

If the gap is just across the top - just add a 2x(?) whatever size across the header re trim it and call it a day. After the trim is in you wont see it.

 

[matt_i]

Just to add, anytime I would order anything "custom" and not returnable (work experience here) I would have that company's rep or salesman come out and make their own measurements. That way it was lights-out, rock solid their problem if there was ever an issue about fitment.

If not I'd have a sketch at minimum with a pencil drawing and dimensions as the standard by which good or bad is to be judged.

 

[HunterDan]

Just to add, anytime I would order anything "custom" and not returnable (work experience here) I would have that company's rep or salesman come out and make their own measurements. That way it was lights-out, rock solid their problem if there was ever an issue about fitment.

If not I'd have a sketch at minimum with a pencil drawing and dimensions as the standard by which good or bad is to be judged.

Yes, the salesman came out twice before ordering, and used his fancy laser measuring tool to get his measurements

 

[Jlbc212]

i doubt that the door company would even keep an 18x14 door in stock. There are also so many different styles a customer could choose. For those two reasons alone the door would be a custom order. The salesperson who measured the opening probably assumed the opening would be finished at 14 ft high. Any building contractor with any kind of experience would know that overhead garage doors are made in 6" height increments in smaller size residential doors and in 2 foot increments for the larger commercial sized doors. If i were you, i would drop the header down to 14 feet. When your wife, son or brother-in-law drives a vehicle through it, it will be much easier and faster to get a replacement door.

 

[wssix99]

I talked to him yesterday, he said they ordered some parts, and are going to bring them up next week to see if they will work

This is Greek for "We're going to come by when you aren't there, slap some **** in the hole, and hope that your wife signs off on the paperwork."

Yes, the salesman came out twice before ordering, and used his fancy laser measuring tool to get his measurements

I would not give them an inch. Measuring a R.O. and writing it down on paper is Door Salesman 101 stuff. (I was personally able to master the required skill in 5th grade.) Perhaps some one left off the inches or forgot to read them off in the factory? Either way - not your fault.

Any building contractor with any kind of experience would know that overhead garage doors are made in 6" height increments in smaller size residential doors and in 2 foot increments for the larger commercial sized doors. If i were you, i would drop the header down to 14 feet. When your wife, son or brother-in-law drives a vehicle through it, it will be much easier and faster to get a replacement door.

Two good points here:
- When I used to sell doors, I recall that they do come in these increments. So, a properly sized door would be a few inches larger than your opening. (This additional length could be problematic, depending on your ceiling height.) If you have the exterior trim/siding to shrink the rough opening, that may end up giving you the best longevity/function of the product. (Maybe you can make the door company pay for it, since they screwed up?)

- It only took my wife 1 week to smack one of my new garage doors with a 10lb sledge hammer, earlier this year. (Had I not said, "Be careful and don't hit the door." - it probably wouldn't have happened...)

 

[rburke65]

Your door is 18'x14' not 18 ' x14'. Ya wantto keep your demensions correct and hopefully it won't cause confusion down the road. The should be able to make a door in a demensions other than an"even foot" demensions. At least it was feasible when I made garage doors. Sounds like some one screwed up especiallywh n THEY did the measuring.

 

[T_R]

Just reframe the opening to 14' even. It should have been done that way originally. It's an hour job to reframe and trim out. Then you're done. This isn't ghetto, it's the right way to do it.

 

[nehog]

...

Called first am and cancelled my check. ...

Just a heads up to anyone who wants it... In some states it is criminal activity and can land you in deep hot water. The rules for cancelling (stopping payment) on a check vary from state to state, and in NH when you stop payment it can be treated as a criminal act. (Issuing a check that you know won't be paid, perhaps due to insufficient funds is also a criminal act in NH).

 

[gnpenning]

Door panels for residential doors come in 18", 21",24". This is how you can make 3" height adjustment. Commercial generally are 24". Depending on the style and manufacture you can use residential panels in these combinations to get your height for a commercial height. As I mentioned earlier you can get panels cut in height and width as the model of door will allow.


It is in your long term best interest to stay with standard sizes if you ever need to do any replacement down the road.

Do you need the extra 1 1/2" height. If so then make sure you get it. If not rethink about what your needs are. Adjusting the opening size for the door if that's the way you decide to go can easily be done and made to look correct.

What ever you do make sure it looks the way you want it to in the end.

 

[zkdiesel]

Your door opening size was a very poor choice.

 

[readhead]

We have only heard your take of the situation but it is starting to sound like there is plenty of blame to go around. You sound pretty inflexible and unwilling to accept alternative solutions.

What did the plans call out? Why was the opening framed to an odd size? Did the door guy measure the finished opening or the rough opening and assumed it would be 14'? Was there a written estimate for a 14' door?

If there was an estimate for a 14' door this is all on you and or the GC. This is an unusually large and custom door and the door guy has a lot of money out for a door that he may never sell. He isn't going to just cave and order a new door. The simple answer here is to fix the opening and move on with life and enjoy your new garage. Stomping your feet and throughing your weight around to get what you want doesn't help resolve the situation.

 

[csaws]

Just a heads up to anyone who wants it... In some states it is criminal activity and can land you in deep hot water. The rules for cancelling (stopping payment) on a check vary from state to state, and in NH when you stop payment it can be treated as a criminal act. (Issuing a check that you know won't be paid, perhaps due to insufficient funds is also a criminal act in NH).

I don't believe the OP wrote a check he didn't intend on cashing. He cancelled it after he found their mistake, which by your definition is legal.


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[cdestuck]

If what you paid for was a custom door, I would find out that the diff is between thee stock door size and a custom door size. I would then ask for that diff returned to you and have then install the wrapped piece of 2x

 

[billwood437]

It amazes me how people can blame you or telling you to deal with it with some mickey mouse fix. unless you are leaving something out. I am sure you paid a hefty sum for a custom door that size with an R19 rating. You had the door rep. measure the opening and unless they told you that you needed to lower the opening or you gave them some bad information I would stick to your guns and have them correctly fix it. I am buildind my garage now and if i am paying for custom I want what I speced and what I paid for.I hope it all works out for you.

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[bobmulry]

WOW.....

Do we have a bunch of **** house lawyers on this site................

No garage door company with any brains will accept measurements on a door opening other than from their employee.............

The door company can fit any size hole even a lopsided one.....

Their measurements, their measurer, their contract.......

Just tell them they breached the contract by not supplying the correct size door to fit the opening......

They can either fix it or remove it.....

There are a lot of door companies out there....

They had a contract and they breached, case closed in any court in the land...

Go get them and don't settle for less than you wanted and paid for (stopped check or not)

Bob

 

[readhead]

The problem is we only have half the info. To many unknowns. For instance you are assuming the door guy messed up. We don't know that. Did the GC mess up? The framer? Did the owner not read the estimate? The opening is not standard, we know that. I have the impression that the owner may be trying to deflect responsibly but that is my opinion based on bad info just like the rest of us and years of contracting.

 

[fountain]

Pad it down and install new trim around entire door. If your general contractor can't figure this out, I would question his abilities. You do not want a non-standard sized door, it will make everything more costly in the future.

 

[Dcampbell98xj]

If your door was framed out to 14' 1.5" then the framing is wrong. The doors can only be a certain size. Either 18" 21" or 24" sections. You can swap sections to achieve a desired odd size. That 1.5" gap is not fixable by replacing the door. You need to trim out the header to fix the gap. As a garage door installer for 16 years the builders screw up the opening size as often as not. Flip a quarter and those are your odds. I will say that the company should have informed you of this and not left it as a surprise for you to come home to. And if you have a side mount motor such as a liftmaster 3500 or 8500 you are at the max door size for that motor.

 

[bobmulry]

if your door was framed out to 14' 1.5" then the framing is wrong. The doors can only be a certain size. Either 18" 21" or 24" sections. You can swap sections to achieve a desired odd size. That 1.5" gap is not fixable by replacing the door. You need to trim out the header to fix the gap. As a garage door installer for 16 years the builders screw up the opening size as often as not. Flip a quarter and those are your odds. I will say that the company should have informed you of this and not left it as a surprise for you to come home to. And if you have a side mount motor such as a liftmaster 3500 or 8500 you are at the max door size for that motor.

no no no

wrong wrong wrong

If the morons at the door company couldn't build that door...............

WHY DID THEY TAKE HIS MONEY AND SAY THEY COULD.....

It looks like the only people who post are the people who own their own garage door companies and don't want to spend any money to fix THEIR problem...

 

[CNGsaves]

^ ^ ^ This, OP needs to get what he paid for . . . custom-to-FIT !!

Garage door salesman did all the measurements (supposedly twice), yet they still screwed it up.

I'd say a work-a-round for the door company would be to make 2 slightly larger panels (top and bottom) that the 1.5" difference could be split as 3/4" each.

Doubt that you could tell that difference size in panels. Good luck.

 

[readhead]

Could you supply some pictures of the door? Apparently you have seen the door in question and know all about it. Is it a custom wood door? Embossed steel stock door? Let us know. Did you see the estimate also?

 

[readhead]

Still making assumptions. I have asked several questions that the OP has not answered. We don't know what kind of door was installed. We don't know if the door guy showed up and the GC said it would be 14' when they were done. Any GC with experiance knows how to frame a garage door opening to size. Making the finished opening 14'-2" is just bad work. The OP has been pretty quite. I'm anxious to hear the outcome.

 

[bobmulry]

It doesn't matter what the size is the garage door company is wrong......

The garage door company measures the hole in the wall and orders the correct size to fill the hole.....

What could be easier...

Bob


PS: Why is everybody trying to get the garage door company off the hook and blame the whole world for his error??????????????????????????

 

[upndown]

Something seems to be missing! I never ordered doors til I personally measured. If the opening was just framed, not finished or if the concrete wasn't poured, I would explain what needed to be done, note it on the paper work and signed by HO. That way if the framers, trim guys or concrete crew fucked up, I was not left holding the bag! If HO squabbled or wouldn't sign..Bye..Bye.

 

[readhead]

Not trying to get the door guy off the hook. We just don't have all the info. Upndown said the same thing I did, something is missing. It seems strange that the door guy would order a door that big knowing that it wouldn't fit. Still no reason for why the opening wasn't framed and finished to a standard size.

 

[wssix99]

Still no reason for why the opening wasn't framed and finished to a standard size.

Where can I find an industry or code reference for "standard sizes" of garage doors? I don't recall ever seeing such a standard.

Not trying to get the door guy off the hook. We just don't have all the info.

Sure we do. The door company came out and measured. ... With lasers! The liability and responsibility is all on them. If they wanted the opening to be framed smaller, they should have spoken up at that time. (Not after the house and door were finished.)

It seems strange that the door guy would order a door that big knowing that it wouldn't fit.

Not to me. We don't teach our kids to write, do math, or take responsibility any more. Let's give this door company a nice trophy for trying hard, ignore their failure, and tell them they did a great job!

 

[CJ7VFR]

...We don't teach our kids to write, do math, or take responsibility any more. Let's give this door company a nice trophy for trying hard, ignore their failure, and tell them they did a great job!

Just don't use a RED "X" on the paperwork! NO, no, no. You have to use a "softer" color, like purple, and you can't use an "X". Using the color red and marking an "X" will make the garage door guy "feel bad"......

Sorry, I just couldn't resist......

Jim

 

[readhead]

Wssix99, Sure there is a standard and I think you know that. Doors are available in standard panel sizes. Here again we don't know if he ordered a custom door. For the last fifty years the call out size of the door is the finished door opening. Nobody has told us why the opening was framed 2" to high.

The fact that the door guy came out twice tells me that the GC wasn't ready with a finished opening and probably assured the door guy that the opening would be correct when they arrived.

You are assuming that the door guy failed. We do not know that.

The only thing we know for sure is the height of the opening is not typical. I'm not defending anybody here. I hope the OP comes back and explains how all this shakes out.

 

[CJ7VFR]

...Here again we don't know if he ordered a custom door. For the last fifty years the call out size of the door is the finished door opening. Nobody has told us why the opening was framed 2" to high.

The fact that the door guy came out twice tells me that the GC wasn't ready with a finished opening and probably assured the door guy that the opening would be correct when they arrived.

You are assuming that the door guy failed. We do not know that.

The OP did say that he thought the door should have been a custom order. He said the door opening is 14'-1.5" high. He said that the door opening was not a standard size, and the door guy came out twice to measure it, to make sure he had the correct dimensions before the door was built.

And aren't you making assumptions that the GC "probably assured the door guy that the opening would be correct when he arrived? You are now assuming the GC failed.

This all boils down to a lack of communication on all sides. If the door guy came out, twice, and measured the same door opening, twice, and saw that the door opening was bigger than a standard opening, twice, then he should have informed the OP that they could not make a custom door to fit that space, and he could have suggested ways to remedy the situation to everyone's satisfaction. And then the OP would have the choice to either go with this door guy, or tell him no thank you, and seek out another door company.

But instead, the door guy went back to his place, built the door to a standard dimension, and not what he had measured, twice, and then had the door installed, only to find out it was now too small to fill the opening, making suggestions that could fix it after-the-fact.

The suggestions the door guy offered are not bad suggestions, and are what can sometimes be done to fix a problem where the door does not fit correctly.

But this should have been communicated to the buyer BEFORE the door guy took the buyers money.

The buyer in this case had absolutely no idea that he was not going to get a custom door to fit in the opening. How would he know that? He had professionals come out, measure the door opening, twice, and all he wants is a door that fits and looks good.

I would say that if the actual receipt for the door calls out for a custom size, in this case, a door that fits an opening of 14'-1.5" tall, then he should get what he paid for.

Jim