New install garage door issues...

[readhead]

Again making assumptions. We don't know that any of what you said happened.

 

[CJ7VFR]

Again making assumptions. We don't know that any of what you said happened.

Ah, you didn't read what I actually wrote.

I pulled the first part of what I wrote right out of the OP's first post. He said the door guy measured the opening, and it was 14'-1.5". He measured this, twice, as confirmed by the door guy coming out twice to do so.

What I wrote after that was no assumptions at all. Just it seems that there was lack of communication all around after the door guy took his measurements, twice, and then took the buyers money. He delivered a standard size door that did not fit properly in the very opening the door guy came out to measure to make sure he had it right. Then made some suggestions after-the-fact to fix the problem of the door not fitting right, which should have been communicated if a custom door could not be made, and standard door was going to be installed.

What exactly are you inferring that I said happened that did not?

I actually agree with you, somewhat, when you said: "Was there a written estimate for a 14' door? If there was an estimate for a 14' door this is all on you and or the GC." With the exception of it being on the OP. The OP did not order the door. He hired people to provide a door for him, and it would fall on the GC at that point.

As I said, if the receipt calls out for a door that will fit a 14'-1.5" opening, then it is on the door guy. It was a lack of communication that precipitated this whole mess.

Jim

 

[bobmulry]

Not trying to get the door guy off the hook. We just don't have all the info. Upndown said the same thing I did, something is missing. It seems strange that the door guy would order a door that big knowing that it wouldn't fit. Still no reason for why the opening wasn't framed and finished to a standard size.

There is such thing in a standard size in a custom size garage door......

HD & Loews list special discount prices for doors that sell a lot of (standard size) 8' x 7' tall, 9' x 7' tall and 16' x 7' tall.....

Garage door companies measure what size they need and order the correct size from the door manufacturer if they don't have one of the "standard" (most popular) sizes in stock.....

It's not rocket surgery.........It's just a garage door

Bob

 

[bobmulry]

Wssix99, Sure there is a standard and I think you know that. Doors are available in standard panel sizes. Here again we don't know if he ordered a custom door. For the last fifty years the call out size of the door is the finished door opening. Nobody has told us why the opening was framed 2" to high.

The fact that the door guy came out twice tells me that the GC wasn't ready with a finished opening and probably assured the door guy that the opening would be correct when they arrived.

You are assuming that the door guy failed. We do not know that.

The only thing we know for sure is the height of the opening is not typical. I'm not defending anybody here. I hope the OP comes back and explains how all this shakes out.

WOW...........


I can only assume that English is your second language.....

"Here again we don't know if he ordered a custom door"
The homeowner didn't order the door the door company measured and ordered wrong....

"The fact that the door guy came out twice tells me that the GC wasn't ready with a finished opening and probably assured the door guy that the opening would be correct when they arrived."
He shouldn't have measured until he had the finished size...His error

"You are assuming that the door guy failed. We do not know that."
Of course you are kidding...
Door company measured, took money and are unable to install the door that they ordered

"The only thing we know for sure is the height of the opening is not typical"
There is no such thing as a typical height in a custom size garage door

Bob

 

[readhead]

We don't know that the door guy measured the finished opening. Bob, I don't even know how to respond to your comments. I have been in the contracting biz for 45 years and purchased my share of garage doors. I happen to share a building with a garage door company and do custom fab work for them. It seems pretty clear that you know very little about the how and why of garage doors.

I hope the OP comes back soon to clear this up.

 

[readhead]

Can you make mine extra large with glitter? So Lakeroadster, based on your comment you would rather not see any GC's on this forum even though you have sought out advice in the past. Confusing.

 

[lorne]

It doesn't matter what the size is the garage door company is wrong......

The garage door company measures the hole in the wall and orders the correct size to fill the hole.....

What could be easier...

Bob


PS: Why is everybody trying to get the garage door company off the hook and blame the whole world for his error??????????????????????????

I agree with this. OP even said the garage company came out and measured twice. They need a new tape measure...

 

[Dcampbell98xj]

Special order and custom doors are two very different things.a special order would be a door that is not a standard size, an 18'x14' door would be special order unless it was a custom built wood door built to 18'x14'1.5". Based on the assumption that this is a steel insulated door it is a special order because of the size. No company stocks that size door. Also when choosing a steel, fiberglass, or aluminum door companies and customers are stuck to the actual sizes the manufacturer makes. 14'1.5" is not one of them. The sales rep and installer should have been able to explain this to the op. As also stated we do not know for sure if the sales rep measured a finished opening or rough opening. He may have told the GC or framers what the opening had to be on one of the visits and it got overlooked or in one ear out the other. There was miscommunication on many accounts it seems. Before installing the door when they got there the installer should have measured before doing anything. The GC should have measured and been in contact also. Id like to see pics of the door and opening. Also the actual measurements of both

 

[lakeroadster]

Why is everybody trying to get the garage door company off the hook and blame the whole world for his error?

Because, as is often the case here on GJ, many of the contractor members here stick together, ad nauseum.

I tend to take the OP at his word. If the overhead door contractor measured the door opening, and the door the same contractor supplied and installed doesn't fit it's obvious where the error originated.

 

[joes169]

There's two sides to every story, and the truth lies somewhere between them.

There's is no such thing as a 14' 1.5" high garage door, I doubt the quote from the GC or the contract from the door installer lists it as anything but 14'0" high, but that's boviously an assumption on my part.

Hopefully by now the GC padded the header down and wrapped the jamb and the OP has moved forward in life...........

 

[HunterDan]

Wow, I thought this thread had died! No comments for a few days so I stopped checking it.

The company came out today to "try" to remedy it today, I'll type up the story when I get off work.

 

[wssix99]

Wow, I thought this thread had died! No comments for a few days so I stopped checking it.

There were plenty more comments, but the moderators here decided to delete anything that was critical of contractors.

So, you should be very tactful in your next posts.

 

[plow]

I know what happened. It was the cat operating the laser measure. I bet the laser device was positioned wrong when he was reading it. IE the 2" error VS the placement of the device......Am I making sense explaining this????

 

[HunterDan]

There were plenty more comments, but the moderators here decided to delete anything that was critical of contractors.

So, you should be very tactful in your next posts.

Thank you for the heads up!

But I am going to tell the true story, and If the mods feel they need to pull it, so be it. I'm uploading a few pictures now. Once I'm done that I'll post the details

 

[DeliveryGuy]

If you're worried about the 1/2" gap being covered by only vinyl around your R19 door, don't worry about it, because there's a 1/4" gap around the entire door that's only covered by vinyl. The moving door face doesn't touch the lumber, there's a clearance gap around the whole thing.

The metal-on-metal panel joints likely have a thin rubber seal, simply an air gasket, definitely NOT R19. You will see frost here on very cold days.

Do you have windows in the door? Or in the garage? Those are only R5 or something like that.

Is your building constructed from lumber? Wood is a terrible insulator, only about R1/inch. That's why a 2x6 wall, R22, has a field rated R value in the low teens.

If the installers can put a thicker bottom seal on (like you said they suggested) to increase the height, and cover the left over 1/2" gap at the top with thick weatherstripping, than that's as good as you will get. As long as it's tight with no wind whistling in, it will have an R value just as good as the rest of the door's perimeter weatherstrip.

If you plan to USE the door, IE, open it and let all the heat out, that 1/2" air tight gap (in addition to the 1/4" air tight gap around the rest) won't make any measurable difference to your heating cost.

I haven't seen pictures yet, but you CAN actually get those aluminum framed doors in ANY custom size you want. So if that's what you ordered, than yeah, they screwed up big time. But those are definitely not R19, so I'm assuming it's a steel insulated door.

 

[HunterDan]

I appologize for the long wait, so here's an update on where we are at now.

The door is a insulated steel interior/exterior r18 door, no windows. They came yesterday, put the thicker seal on the bottom, which raised the door about an inch and a half. From there I had about a 1 1/4" gap left at the top of the door. They put up thicker weather strip pieces to cover that gap and called it good. The thicker weather seal doesn't sit tight against the concrete, as I can see light in places all the way across it. In all honesty, and like I told the installer (same one who did originally install), that it did look good, but there is the fact of me having a 1"+ gap above the door. I was planning on spray foam, which is why I went with the higher r value door (which was not cheap by any means!!) so I will have an r18 door, r18+ walls, and a 1"+ by 18' long air gap covered by a piece of vinyl.

Maybe I'm still making to big of a deal about it? I don't know, but I do know I'm a perfectionist, which I think is a good thing, but in other ways, *****, because I will always know that it is not right, and it will drive me nuts.

Either way, there was a huge breakdown in communication on the door salesman's part. Yes, it's an odd size, that probably shouldn't have been done, but That should have been talked about before anything was ordered. He came out the first time, everything was done exempt for the slab, which was framed, awaiting better concrete weather. He took measurements with his laser tool, and left. Once the floor was done, he came back, again, measured with his laser tool, collected a 1/3 deposit, and ordered the door. A month later, showed up and installed, and that's where this whole thing started.

I'm still not 100% happy, but I'm pretty much out of options at this point. I have gotten a quote from my GC to order new metal, remove all the front metal, pad the header down, then trim out and replace the metal so everything is correct. it is not cheap, and I don't feel I should have to pay for that. I've talked to the salesman, and told him my side of things, in that either I want a correct size door, or I would like to split the cost of repairing things the correct way. He said he'll get back to me next week, so we will see.

Now here's a few pictures. The before picture, I thought I had more on my phone, but I don't, there on my computer.


So here's the barn with the new door. Hard to see the gap, and it does not look as big as it really is.






And here it is today after the fixes

 

[LB-1911]

Either way, there was a huge breakdown in communication on the door salesman's part. Yes, it's an odd size, that probably shouldn't have been done, but That should have been talked about before anything was ordered.

He came out the first time, everything was done exempt for the slab, which was framed, awaiting better concrete weather. He took measurements with his laser tool, and left.

Once the floor was done, he came back, again, measured with his laser tool, collected a 1/3 deposit, and ordered the door.

^ This bit of information should have been included in your initial post.

 

[Ghoster]

I think regardless of who pays, I would fix the door opening to fit the door. Somebody screwed up, nobody wants to admit it. Life goes on. I love the new building! I wish I had enough property for something that size. If I built something like that I would keep working on it until I was happy with each and every aspect, regardless of who screwed it up.

 

[lakeroadster]

Dan that is one fine looking barn...

You're oh so close. Whatever you do don't make the opening smaller to fit the door. And don't re-skin the steel either. I had the steel re-worked on my barn due to some installation issues... trust me, they'll screw up something else that'll bug ya in the process of the re-work.

I know what I'd do, here is your fix........

Put a spacer on the bottom of the door, between the door and the seal. I'd use Trex or some similar composite type of material. Cut on a table saw to match the door thickness.

That will space the door up, and provide you with a material that will not rot.

The downside to that is..... nothing.

Talk to your GC... he'll be on this concept like a duck on a June bug

 

[HunterDan]

You're oh so close. Whatever you do don't make the opening smaller to fit the door.

I know what I'd do, here is your fix........

Put a spacer on the bottom of the door, between the door and the seal. I'd use Trex or some similar type of material. Cut on a table saw to match the door thickness.

That will space the door up, and provide you with a material that will not rot.

The downside to that is..... nothing.

That's actually a pretty decent idea! Can I get it in white?

Thank you for the compliments, I plan on starting a build thread soon when I can get a hour or two of free time. I still have a long way, but atleast it is mostly weather right now

 

[scottydosnntkno]

Azek from Home Depot comes in white and is paintable. It's basically a very small closed cell foam and already comes in 1.5" nominal increments like normal trim lumber (1x2, 1x3, etc) and once cut you can paint it white to match the door and never see it

 

[NUTTSGT]

There were plenty more comments, but the moderators here decided to delete anything that was critical of contractors.

So, you should be very tactful in your next posts.

Actually, no. Up until your post above, there were two posts deleted.

One was by another member, that reposted again with the same basic content.

The second was a post by you, quoting him, and not relative to the discussion.

Several members have edited their posts and that might be what is missing. Nothing was deleted by moderators that was critical of contractors.

 

[lakeroadster]

Why is everybody trying to get the garage door company off the hook and blame the whole world for his error??????????????????????????

Because, as is often the case here on GJ, many of the contractor members here stick together, ad nauseum.

I tend to take the OP at his word. If the overhead door contractor measured the door opening, and the door the same contractor supplied and installed doesn't fit it's obvious where the error originated.

Actually, no. Up until your post above, there were two posts deleted.

One was by another member, that reposted again with the same basic content.

The second was a post by you, quoting him, and not relative to the discussion.

Several members have edited their posts and that might be what is missing. Nothing was deleted by moderators that was critical of contractors.

Well, I feel the need to back my fellow members play.

My post, one that was deleted, was in reply to another members question and was indeed critical of the contractors jumping all over the OP for no factual reasons...

I still don't understand why it was deleted?

 

[Ryan]

Well, I feel the need to back my fellow members play.

My post, one that was deleted, was in reply to another members question and was indeed critical of the contractors jumping all over the OP for no factual reasons...

I still don't understand why it was deleted?

I just went and read your post that was deleted. It shouldn't have been... My bad.

Trying to keep folks from calling each other names over a garage door install...

 

[wssix99]

^ Thanks!

 

[wssix99]

That's actually a pretty decent idea! Can I get it in white?

You can get solid PVC boards, in white, that you can rip down and sand. Getting a 20 footer may take some hunting with a professional lumber supply.

The thicker weather seal doesn't sit tight against the concrete, as I can see light in places all the way across it.

Did the original seal do that? I had one of my doors with this problem, due to uneven concrete and I had to grind the sill to get it right.

In all honesty, and like I told the installer (same one who did originally install), that it did look good, but there is the fact of me having a 1"+ gap above the door. I was planning on spray foam, which is why I went with the higher r value door (which was not cheap by any means!!) so I will have an r18 door, r18+ walls, and a 1"+ by 18' long air gap covered by a piece of vinyl.

If you are insulating the space, the 1" space is self-defeating. Yes - you will have a small gap around the entire door, which the seal will cover - but that gap isn't supposed to be 1". Every bit of extra space is extra heat loss. Pay me now or pay me later...

The new larger, upgraded weather seals that they gave you are very nice, though!

I'm still not 100% happy, but I'm pretty much out of options at this point. I have gotten a quote from my GC to order new metal, remove all the front metal, pad the header down, then trim out and replace the metal so everything is correct. it is not cheap, and I don't feel I should have to pay for that.

I assume you are talking of extending the metal siding down? What would you think about putting an extra 2X6 around the top of the opening and the sides? You could then add larger casing/capping around the opening. You'd loose 3" of width in the equation, but the larger casing/capping might give you a nice look. (I think it would make the door look stronger. It would also be easier/cleaner to get your problem fixed.)

I've talked to the salesman, and told him my side of things, in that either I want a correct size door, or I would like to split the cost of repairing things the correct way. He said he'll get back to me next week, so we will see.

From here, it's a game of math, probabilities, and "chicken." Playing hard ball doesn't work well for anyone, in the end - so it's in everyone's best interest to find the least expensive fix that will still make you happy and give you equivalent functionality/efficiency that you would have had if the job was done correctly.

^ The door contractor should pick up the bill for this solution, assuming the fix is a fraction of what is still outstanding to them. (If not, the scales tip a good bit.)

 

[lakeroadster]

I just went and read your post that was deleted. It shouldn't have been... My bad.

Trying to keep folks from calling each other names over a garage door install...

Thanks Ryan.

 

[readhead]

Sounds like a satisfactory solution will be found. I think modifying the opening makes the most sense. If the door is ever damaged the components can simply be replaced.

 

[lakeroadster]

I assume you are talking of extending the metal siding down? What would you think about putting an extra 2X6 around the top of the opening and the sides? You could then add larger casing/capping around the opening. You'd loose 3" of width in the equation, but the larger casing/capping might give you a nice look. (I think it would make the door look stronger. It would also be easier/cleaner to get your problem fixed.)

Anything to avoid making the usable opening smaller seems like the best approach. If everything is good at this point, except for the 1 " gap at the top, a 2" sandwiched spacer at the bottom of the door solves the gap issue and avoids costly re-work of existing trim.

Imagine how pissed you would be if sometime in the future you went to pull something in the barn, and it didn't fit, 'cause it was 1-1/2" too high.

As for future door replacement, the spacer could be re-used.

 

[DeliveryGuy]

Believe it or not, this kind of thing happens ALL THE TIME in the garage door business. I don't own my own door company, but I work one.

It's exceptionally common for me to arrive on site and the height of the opening is incorrect. I also have copies of the signed quote, and any emails leading up to the sale, especially if there are changes to the order after initial purchase.

Common steel doors are sold in 3" increments. I'll show up to do an install, and what happens a lot is the opening will be too SHORT, often because the header beam was larger than anticipated and it's tight against the 8 foot ceiling leaving 6'11 underneath, or, there were decorative boards applied after the rough framing, not just a layer of aluminium flashing, and now the opening is an inch too short. OR, the door was ordered before the floor was poured, and the floor was poured thinner or thicker than expected.

Bulkheads are often built in the path of the garage door, for hvac and stuff. Another common issue is in a garage that is at a lower grade than the living space, so the 5 steps up into the house from the garage walk you face first into the door tracks. Better yet, I've seen man doors framed tight into a corner, and it physically will not open once the garage door is installed because it hits the curved track.

These are called DESIGN errors, not errors in my installation, or product. Now, most of these are exclusive problems with new construction when the door is ordered before the house is finished, often times it's ordered by the contractor without a site visit done by us, or even as a labor only contract where the contractor supplies the door and I just show up to install it.

I'm willing to bet that if you read your quote that you signed, it says 18 wide, 14 tall. But if the quote guy showed up after the floor was in and measured 14'2" tall, that should have been a red flag to tell you or the contractor, in writing, that there's a problem. I doubt anyone actually tried to sell you a 14'2" tall door. That was a screw up between the framer and the cement floor guys.

 

[wssix99]

I'm willing to bet that if you read your quote that you signed, it says 18 wide, 14 tall. But if the quote guy showed up after the floor was in and measured 14'2" tall, that should have been a red flag to tell you or the contractor, in writing, that there's a problem.

Right. This is Contracting 101 kind of stuff.

I doubt anyone actually tried to sell you a 14'2" tall door. That was a screw up between the framer and the cement floor guys.

Salesman, Installer, and Contractor. Each one of these people makes their money their own way and they don't necessarily care about being on the same page. Salesmen are professionals at making messes for installers and contractors - they do it on a daily basis.

When I went through garage door sales training we were programmed to tell the customer we could get them a door in "any size with any rough opening they want." <- This is true. There are better choices than others, but that doesn't matter for the salesman's commission!

 

[bobmulry]

There is only 1 person that has to be happy with the way the door was ordered and installed and that is you......

If you don't like the finished product then you should contact a different garage door installer, have them come out, take measurements and price out a replacement that you will happy with....

Take the quote to Small Claims Court and let the system work for you...

We are very lucky in California because we have a Department of Consumer Affairs which License Contractors. If you file a complaint they will get in middle of it with the contractor and look out for your interests.

You can do it you, it's your $$$$$$$$$$$$$$'s..

Good Luck,
Bob

 

[wssix99]

Take the quote to Small Claims Court and let the system work for you...

Yea, but he canceled the check. If that doesn't change the OP will be the one to have a lien placed on him or sued. Either way, the cost of "going Matlock" on this problem (and the associated legal fees) are probably the better part of a new door.

 

[lakeroadster]

That's actually a pretty decent idea! Can I get it in white?

Yes... Here's a link: http://www.trex.com/products/decking/fascia/

We used these fascia boards to replace some trim around the bottom of columns on our front and rear porch. Cuts easily with a chop saw or table saw.

And please don't unleash the "law dogs". Sounds like the GC's working with you on this.

 

[bobmulry]

Yea, but he canceled the check. If that doesn't change the OP will be the one to have a lien placed on him or sued. Either way, the cost of "going Matlock" on this problem (and the associated legal fees) are probably the better part of a new door.

Hi all,

Only expense in Small Claims is the file fee of around $30.00......

If the OP is not any money out of pocket, if he wins the door company gets the door back and they can reorder the correct size and then the OP can write a check for the correctly installed, correct door........

OR

The OP rewinds and gets to hire a company that will measure the opening correctly, order the correct size door and correctly install it.....

Why should the OP be stuck with a patched up, make due, good enough door....

If he doesn't win he is stuck with the POS door that they installed and writes the door company a check...........

It's his money and he is the buyer....

This isn't rocket surgery...

Small claims is easy

Bob

PS:
There is no "Matlock" that was just a TV show...

 

[wssix99]

Only expense in Small Claims is the file fee of around $30.00......

That's for a neighbor coming over and stomping your petunias. How much will it cost the OP if the company liens the property? (In my area, the cost to the door company would be small and the cost to the owner to fight it would be more than the cost of the door installation, itself.)

There is no "Matlock" that was just a TV show...

TV is real, Matlock is real, and Andy Griffith lives.

 

[bobmulry]

That's for a neighbor coming over and stomping your petunias. How much will it cost the OP if the company liens the property? (In my area, the cost to the door company would be small and the cost to the owner to fight it would be more than the cost of the door installation, itself.)




TV is real, Matlock is real, and Andy Griffith lives.

Hi,

My post said that if he lost just pay up and there is no lien......

If he wins, gives back door, no lien ....

This is a contract case and the door company breached. It's a simple case because the door company didn't comply with the contract....

Let the judge hear the case and rule. The OP will get a better deal than the makeshift, non-standard door modifications and possible voided warranty from the door manufacturer that the door installer will supply.

Bob

 

[joes169]

I guess I must have missed the post where the contract was shown?

I'm willing to bet that the contract ws for a 14'0" high garage door though, and the framing crew should have padded the door opening down before the opening was trimmed out. The GC likely dropped the ball as wall, as oversight between trades really is their job afterall.........

 

[jimindm]

A contractor buddy and I was talking the other day. I asked, just what is custom any more. He said it has changed a lot over the years, and is used way to much in the industry.

In his opinion custom ordered, is simply ordering something that is not on the shelf. They simply do not sell enough of it, to have it in stock.

Years ago when he started the trade custom ment it was built for you. Not so much any more. Manufactures have so many options, that built specifically for you, means that you kind of fit a template, but with what ever you want on it.

He says the problem is that custom built is still done, just expensive, and you need to find people that still do it.

This thread came into the conversation. He said here is the deal, much like any other business. What ever you want can be done, but is it economically feasible to do it. You want an 11 foot tall shed. Going to but 11 ft studs is not going to happen. Could they come from the manufacturer, sure but for how much. Now he could stand and cut 12 footers all day, or some one at the lumber yard could do it. You are still going to pay for it.

Here is the difference, do you want an 11 foot garden shed that has 25 studs, or do you need 25k of them to build an office complex. It is all in what you want.

The says not much of any job is not somewhat custom any more. No one buys off the shelf. That is OK. About everthing can be built some what close, using certain parameters, as options.

I think custom built one off stuff still happens, but it is few and far between. There is no way that any store could stock every item that they have access to.

I have read this thread several times. About the only thing I get out of it there was a whole lot of communication problems.

I have to say I can not imagine that an architect would spec out a garage door that was 2 inches out of a standard door. I can not believe a GC would have went right a head and built it that way. Even the subs that likely actually built it thought it was odd.

To be honest I do not know why you would want such an odd ball door. The OP makes no mention of needing an extra 2 inches for anything.

The OP has a great looking new shop. Stick a 2X what ever at the top, made out of what ever, or covered by whatever and move on.

 

[HunterDan]

Just wanted to give a final update. Going back and forth with the door company, we finally settled on them crediting me half of what my quote for correct repairs are. Still not happy I have to spend money on that, instead of insulation, lighting, etc. but it is what it is.

Yes, there was a HUGE lack of communication on both sides. If I ever build anything like this again, you better believe I will be more involved in that part, lesson learned.

As far as the extra height, not that 2" is a lot, but I have a tri axle dump truck that I run on the side, and wanted as much clearance as possible for that