New Lug Nut Sockets - Merrick Tools

[AA/FC]

I encountered properly torqued lug nuts on a friend's recently purchased car when I helped him change a flat. It was unusual enough that I commented on it.

I agree.... it's rare! But the lug nuts came right off, didn't they?

 

[n8n]

I agree.... it's rare! But the lug nuts came right off, didn't they?

with just an old 4-way that I had in the back of my Jeep! I didn't even grunt!

 

[Snapped-off]

Who's gonna be the guinea pig and buy a set. Still curious how they'll be in the real world.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

We have been telling the customer the warranty pays X we charge Y if you want us to fix it you have to pay the difference, some don't have a problem with that some do.
But the time involved in contacting the warranty company and getting paid by them is getting to the point where it's not worth it.
I've had a couple of them go down the road to a guy that would do it for the price the warranty company paid to R&R a rack on a 2010 Buick, he notched the upper frame with a torch to get it out, installed the rack they sent him customer showed up 3 weeks later with it leaking worse then it was to start with.
Told them nope we want nothing to do with that mess it's not safe to drive won't pass PA inspection you need to talk to a good lawyer................

Hacks are gonna hack. Wonder why those guys are always SO much cheaper...

As you said, time involved is the issue. Front desk will have 30+ min on the first phone call, and that whole time they're not writing people up, answering phones, selling jobs, etc. Really not worth it for the warranty company to agree to pay $30/hour to slap a single bearing on a spun rod big end without machining the crank. It's just silly.

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

No way I’m buying those. Sorry but can’t spend that much on three sockets. I have plenty of things to take out swollen ones. Today ran across some that were 21mm originally and were swollen to a 23mm. Yesterday was working on a trade in and had to dig out a 19.5 and 20mm. If it’s a customer car and the lug nuts are swollen they try to sell them so far only came across two that have said no since I’ve worked there. In our quick lane they are not allowed to rotate tires till lug nuts are approved if they are swollen because we aren’t eating the cost every time. It’s only around $30 for 24 lug nuts on a Ford but when you are dealing with it a lot per week it adds up. The rest of the customers were like yeah let’s go ahead and do it so if I get a flat I can change it. We have ten brands of vehicles and techs for each one. Of those ten brands we stock Mopar and Ford and Toyota two piece lug nuts by the thousands because they are always swollen. Don’t know if these sockets would work for those or not probably not. I can’t see anyone I know buying them. I’m glad they are trying to be successful and everything but sorry I can’t pay that especially only needing 19mm on a daily basis generally since I’m a Subaru tech.

 

[WordMan]

You eat it, unless it is explicitly pre-estimated. Like if I'm changing an exhaust pipe, and I need to pull studs that look like tooth picks, I WILL be adding time to deal with that. Usually half an hour is plenty. Or if something is beyond crusty, you quote it as destroying everything in your path to replace the part. Save what you can as you go. Imagine a Ford 5.4 manifold job, you can't have 8 hours (8 studs) of variable rate labor, no one would ever agree to that.

If it breaks on disassembly, like the toothpick stud example, you eat it. I snap it off, and need to pull the manifold to deal with it, 99% of the time it's my problem. The less than 1% of the time the customer will pay some amount, usually not what they really aught to, but something. When you spend an entire day on something, uncompensated for the additional time, it's annoying and disheartening. Counter point, I can deal with most broken bolts in less than 10min, and having something sit and rot on a rack while the front desk plays phone tag is even more unprofitable.

Where the hell do you work?

If a bolt looked iffy, we called the customer to let him know he might be in trouble. We'd tell him we'll do everything we can to save the situation, but if it breaks, it's going to cost him, then leave it up to the customer to decide what he wants to do.

On older cars, I always put some room in the estimate for problems, too. small stud breaks and I need to drill it? No problem, there was room in the estimate.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Where the hell do you work?

If a bolt looked iffy, we called the customer to let him know he might be in trouble. We'd tell him we'll do everything we can to save the situation, but if it breaks, it's going to cost him, then leave it up to the customer to decide what he wants to do.

On older cars, I always put some room in the estimate for problems, too. small stud breaks and I need to drill it? No problem, there was room in the estimate.

The rust belt, local chain store heaven. You can't have hundreds of dollars worth of variable rate labor, just isn't economically viable. Eventually people will just abandon garbage vehicles when the bill gets too high, and then I get $0.00 anyways. Do you have it rot on a rack for 2 days while the customer waffles about? Or you call about the broken stud, and they don't call back for 6 hours?

I too build in room on estimates. But as I said, if that manifold stud snaps, whats the shops game plan? Sorry Mr. Customer, it's XYZ hours extra? So then they say "No, I didn't sign an estimate approving that", and now it's off to small claims court. I used to try to itemize, I can't make estimates for every possible bolt extraction, threads pulling out, etc. You end up writing literally a dozen estimates. Or you write and have them agree to worst case, and you save what you can. Unless they can pay worse case, keep moving. That's how I estimate anything remotely complicated. For something like a broken bolt, I extract, repair the threads or cut new ones. I pay for the helicoils, drill bits, and the time. If I need new bolts, I can drive to the hardware store and try to find a replacement out of my own pocket. Guess how many bolts I need to replace? Or I force the shop/customer to order questionable bolts from the dealer, or just melt/cut through whatever is in the way of the bolt. Usually that's the best bet, burn the control arm out to save the hardware. Sounds silly, but call up the local goobers at the dealer parts dept and try ordering a bolt for a 20yo car. Without a part number. "I can fax ya a diagram".

I am paid $0.00 for any incidentals. Best case scenario on a a truly sideways job, is I can walk away, customer scraps the car, I receive no pay for any work already done. As a result, there's a time and place I refuse to even estimate, or even LOOK at a vehicle for a repair.



Looking to make 6 figures this year. I'm a huge jerk sometimes, but I don't let anyone mess with my money, my tools, or my cat. Just a big meanie from 10 years of "this is my problem". Honestly it's at the point it's not even a problem any more.


EDIT: Curious, not picking at how your shop is run. How do you make it the customers problem? I suppose you have to have the front desk fight them back and forth?

 

[G1GRANDEUR]

personally never had an issue with normal socket. if it was reasonably priced, I'd try. but with that price tag? hard pass.

 

[n8n]

No way I’m buying those. Sorry but can’t spend that much on three sockets. I have plenty of things to take out swollen ones. Today ran across some that were 21mm originally and were swollen to a 23mm. Yesterday was working on a trade in and had to dig out a 19.5 and 20mm. If it’s a customer car and the lug nuts are swollen they try to sell them so far only came across two that have said no since I’ve worked there. In our quick lane they are not allowed to rotate tires till lug nuts are approved if they are swollen because we aren’t eating the cost every time. It’s only around $30 for 24 lug nuts on a Ford but when you are dealing with it a lot per week it adds up. The rest of the customers were like yeah let’s go ahead and do it so if I get a flat I can change it. We have ten brands of vehicles and techs for each one. Of those ten brands we stock Mopar and Ford and Toyota two piece lug nuts by the thousands because they are always swollen. Don’t know if these sockets would work for those or not probably not. I can’t see anyone I know buying them. I’m glad they are trying to be successful and everything but sorry I can’t pay that especially only needing 19mm on a daily basis generally since I’m a Subaru tech.

I'm just curious, what do you stock? I guess it's been about 5 years ago now but a friend of mine had a franchise shop, basically a brake and lube place but they would take on other work, this was a constant thing. I was never a "real" tech but I would fill in every now and again, and IME NOBODY approved new lug nuts, customers always just said to put the old ones back on in whatever shape they were. Also, I tried several times to order McGards and couldn't, nobody had them, Parts Authority, NAPA, Advance, even the local speed shop didn't carry them so the only way you could get them was to order from Summit, Jeg's, Amazon, etc. so if we HAD to replace a nut (couldn't get it off without destroying it) the customer got the same ****** nuts that caused the problem in the first place.

 

[twouvakind]

Am I missing the plastic sleeve to protect your alloy wheels?

 

[shawhite]

Who's gonna be the guinea pig and buy a set. Still curious how they'll be in the real world.

I would buy a set but it doesn’t look like they are available per their website

 

[Qualitytools]

Too expensive, poor warranty, missing 17mm which is common for European cars, it has a lot of negatives going for it.

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

I'm just curious, what do you stock? I guess it's been about 5 years ago now but a friend of mine had a franchise shop, basically a brake and lube place but they would take on other work, this was a constant thing. I was never a "real" tech but I would fill in every now and again, and IME NOBODY approved new lug nuts, customers always just said to put the old ones back on in whatever shape they were. Also, I tried several times to order McGards and couldn't, nobody had them, Parts Authority, NAPA, Advance, even the local speed shop didn't carry them so the only way you could get them was to order from Summit, Jeg's, Amazon, etc. so if we HAD to replace a nut (couldn't get it off without destroying it) the customer got the same ****** nuts that caused the problem in the first place.

We stock OEM ones for each brand we sell. No aftermarket unless we don’t sell that brand and don’t have any for it.

 

[m6z]

So swelling lug nuts is a common issue and you guys keep replacing the problem lug nuts with the same problematic OE lug nuts? Why not stock once piece chrome lug nuts for the replacements?

 

[four.cycle]

^ I just called my tire shop. New one-piece lug nuts, installed: about $60.00

I would posit the answer to your question is that the retail customer is probably unwilling to shell out the extra money for lug nuts.

You would probably not believe the percentage of new tire buyers who will skimp on new valve stems when they have $900 worth of new rubber mounted on their rims.

 

[Steve_P]

So swelling lug nuts is a common issue and you guys keep replacing the problem lug nuts with the same problematic OE lug nuts? Why not stock once piece chrome lug nuts for the replacements?

If the customer doesn't want to pay, then put the same ones back on. And when they get a flat and can't get the wheel off, and have to call someone and spend $100+ for them to install the spare, maybe they'll replace them next time. That's up to them.

 

[WordMan]

EDIT: Curious, not picking at how your shop is run. How do you make it the customers problem? I suppose you have to have the front desk fight them back and forth?

It was a very small shop, and thus I was the front desk.


This is how we did it. Car comes in for an exhaust leak. You raise it up and it's the pipe to manifold, but you see it's rusty as hell. So, when I write the estimate, I tell the customer, "The studs look pretty bad. We can try to remove the nuts and replace the studs, but the stud might break. We'll do everything we can not to break the stud, but there's a good chance it's going to break. If it does, the manifold will need to be pulled so the studs can be drilled out, or the manifold can be replaced"

And if something truly unexpected does come up, it is exactly that, unexpected.

Me: "Mr Customer, we were pulling the manifold and the bolt on the back, right will not budge. Odds are, it's going to snap, and if it does, odds are we're going to have to pull the head so we can drill and tap it."

Customer: "What's that going to cost?"

Me: "It could be as much as $X"

Customer: "I'm not spending that much!"

Me: "Okay, you can have the car towed out, just pay time spent."

Worst comes to worst, they abandon the car and you're out the labor. It goes that way sometimes. Sometimes they decided to go for it, sometimes they paid for the time already put into the car and towed it out.

 

[Chumly]

Shade mech here: Ford Lug-nuts! They're not lug-nuts, they're lug nuts covered with chrome sheet metal (I guess you're saying "tin") and I can't see, in any engineering mindset, that you can fix this problem without the source of the problem being corrected. Five wheel/tire changes and that **** is just done...unless you have a $300 socket I guess.

$50 for a new set of lugs from Ford for one wheel after you chisel them off. Or just use damned lugnuts ya fools. Who has walked by an OEM vehicle and said, "oh, nice lug nuts!"? Nobody.

https://imgur.com/MrqnqiU

Do not rotate your tires regularly or you can't get them off, for saieth the Ford unto you. Or purgatory: "Can you drive it to the shop?" I don't know if the wheel is on or off, all the lugs just spin now! If only I could send money to someone to save me

 

[LucienShao]

Is the logo marked with Golden something? it seems i know why pricing so high.

 

[joecon]

This problem with lug nuts has been around for years. I do not know why people do not replace them with solid ones. All the parts stores around here stock them and the last forever. The one dealer I worked for would not use the solid ones because they were not OE, but it was just one of the problems they had. I would not stock parts or eat labor for the shop unless I was making a lot more then I could anywhere else.

 

[p0rkchop]

I'm not the market for these as a home user but I would consider the 19mm if it was reasonable. Having said that, probably safer to swap the capped lug nuts I have to one piece anyways.

 

[AA/FC]

Did anyone buy a set of these? Just wondering....

 

[M635_Guy]

Price just seems high, especially with a 1 time warranty. And that's coming from a guy that buys Snap on for the home box.

I think their warranty reflects the concern about the crew that seems to take pride in breaking tools out there (I'm not referring to you or anyone else specifically in this post), and a similar group that just views tools as disposable. I'm not talking about people working hard who see their tools as a way to get the job done, which sometimes can break things in the process. I mean the guys who brag, directly and indirectly, how often they break tools, have no issues with max uggas or using tools the wrong way seemingly just because they can.

[Tangent, but related] Maybe I'm just weird - I learned about tools from WWII-gen and Vietnam-gen folks who used their tools hard but effectively, and was taught (by example as much as anything) to respect my tools. That doesn't mean I pray over them, but I am purposeful in how I use them. That seemed to be the attitude of most people I know who view their tools as something more than an occasionally-useful accessory.

I don't know if I just didn't know people who seem to get a kick of of abusing their tools or if it's a more-recent thing, but it seems growingly reflected in company policies around things like warranty, including beyond-tools. The best example there was LL Bean pulling back on their Lifetime warranty. [end Tangent]

In this case, If you know your $135 socket isn't going to get replaced when you use it like a jerk, you'll at least think about dialing things back and using it as intended.

For me, I don't have pretty lugs, but I do have pretty wheels, so a sleeved socket is what I use (even on our cars that have "regular" wheels).

 

[four.cycle]

^ Along with L.L. Bean, REI (Recreational Equipment Importers) also changed their return policy, limiting the return period to one year, long after they became known among some of the hiking/climbing community as "Return Every Item".

There is definitely a possibility that the downstream costs of processing and replacing items under "warranty" are built into the retail prices we're paying for items.

 

[PCMusicGuy]

One thing to consider is that after the Ford Super Duty pickups came out (8 lug,20" wheels), it was years before anyone had a 100% OEM replacement lug nut without the dumb chrome caps. To this day, I still only know of one company, coyoteaccessories, that has one.

 

[joel63]

^ I just called my tire shop. New one-piece lug nuts, installed: about $60.00

I would posit the answer to your question is that the retail customer is probably unwilling to shell out the extra money for lug nuts.

You would probably not believe the percentage of new tire buyers who will skimp on new valve stems when they have $900 worth of new rubber mounted on their rims.

They just don't understand or want to understand the real cost of owning an automobile. (Hardships aside)

 

[Wrench97]

The Dorman one piece nuts that have a tendency to rust are $3.95 wholesale, $6.76 list so at $5 a nut that's $20 a wheel if you do it yourself or perhaps have it done with a tire rotation/tire purchase.