New metallic epoxy problems?

[buhhy]

Hey all, I'm in the midst of having an epoxy metallic coating done on my garage floor and am noticing some imperfections. Wanted to get some opinions on how acceptable some of these are. He's already done 2 metallic coats and a polyaspartic coat on top of the base coat.

The flooring is being done in a 400~ sqft space and I don't have a door in place right now. There is a tarp covering the opening keeping out most of the debris, but naturally some is going to blow in.


Those dark lines are patches apparently. Supposedly he's going to come back and colour those lighter though I'm not sure he means another top coat.



There's a bunch of spots with popped bubbles and streaking.



There's a spot with a visible sheen difference in the polyaspartic. Guessing these are roller marks?


Also having my stem walls coated. He's gonna come back and do another coat with a darker colour to better match the floors. I'm not terribly big fan of the wall colour flowing onto the ground.

This is my first time having this done so I'm not sure if I'm being too picky given the lack of garage door and the stormy weather recently.

 

[mogandave]

I doubt I would be happy with paying a professional to do that.

 

[P0234]

Whoever is doing the work is a hack. I can tell by your walls, the wood wasn't even taped and has epoxy all over it. My money on the cracks is he's just going to dump more epoxy on top of just the lines making for a bump. How did you find this company?

 

[benwah]

Typically you would not use a black joint filler, for a white floor. WTF. That should have been fixed before it was top coated. you want all your colors from your joint filler to your metallic coat to be in the same color family so something like this does not happen. So he would have wanted to use a white joint filler.

Should have applied a pigmented primer coat

Should have sanded after the metallic coat. Looks like metallic coat should have been thicker possibly. I like them 20-30 mils DFT

Sand between poly coats and always make sure you have complete coverage.

The streaks are normal.

To fix this he will have to completely degloss (sand) the entire floor, apply a pigmented epoxy prime coat to hide the joint filler, re-apply the metallic coat, re-apply top coat….

 

[buhhy]

Thanks for the opinions everyone.

Whoever is doing the work is a hack. I can tell by your walls, the wood wasn't even taped and has epoxy all over it. My money on the cracks is he's just going to dump more epoxy on top of just the lines making for a bump. How did you find this company?

They had good reviews on Yelp...
For the wood part, I did tell him it's not necessary to mask since I will be drywalling at the end.
Not happy with the lines though.

Typically you would not use a black joint filler, for a white floor. WTF. That should have been fixed before it was top coated. you want all your colors from your joint filler to your metallic coat to be in the same color family so something like this does not happen. So he would have wanted to use a white joint filler.

Is it normal to have to use joint filler on the metallic coat to fix imperfections?

Should have applied a pigmented primer coat

He used a white

Should have sanded after the metallic coat. Looks like metallic coat should have been thicker possibly. I like them 20-30 mils DFT

Sand between poly coats and always make sure you have complete coverage.

No sanding done between coats...

The streaks are normal.

To fix this he will have to completely degloss (sand) the entire floor, apply a pigmented epoxy prime coat to hide the joint filler, re-apply the metallic coat, re-apply top coat….

Thanks for the input. What about the spilling over from the stem walls painting?

 

[benwah]

No, it is not normal to have to use joint filler on the metallic coat to fix imperfections. Sometimes maybe a small touchup, maybe. But you’d use the same color. Imperfections should be fixed immediately after grinding. That way they are hidden and not obvious.

Ok glad he used a white primer.

I am in the habit of sanding after my metallic coat because it accomplishes a few things. Removes any dust, debris, and contaminants from the final product. Removes any roller lines, high spots, and helps flatten the floor. Removes bubbles, highlights defects. Promotes adhesion of your poly coat.

I sand in between poly coats for the same reasons, with the final usually having a bit of aluminim oxide for slip resistance.

Vertical stem walls require extra attention and special care. I charge extra for them in every situation. Multiple thin coats must be applied to achieve complete opaqueness, instead of one or two thick coats. Adding more pigment than recommended helps too. Epoxy does not setup like paint so it stays open a long time allowing it to sag. It is heavy and full of solids, gravity loves it. He can orbital out the high spots to make it even.

If he’s going to re-do the metallic coat just be sure he sands them flat beforehand then cut it in tight.. If he’s going to try and touchup the metallic coat that going to be interesting. If the floor is being left as is, you might think of making a white border around the floor after sanding it, to help tighten it up. Also the poly must be applied better. 2 coats, always

 

[mogandave]

Have you paid him yet?

 

[buhhy]

No, he's coming around tomorrow morning for the "final touches".

 

[mogandave]

do not pay until you're happy with it.

Take a roll of painter's tape and mark everything that you want addressed.

Take a photo that shows the floor with all the tape, so you know where to check when it's done.

 

[buhhy]

The saga continues...

He came around today and coated the walls with a darker gray, address the veins and other defects, and to fix the drips along the stem wall. Well this is the result, which I was not happy with. He agreed to another top coat if I can tarp up the entrance securely, which I did (and should have done myself from the start)



Another coat of metallic, this time polyaspartic, is applied. The colour and pattern is far from what I had initially asked for, but he says it's the best he can do for this floor.



After it dried, I walked out to examine the work. At least the tarp kept out most of the crud, though there's some here and there. However, the coating is definitely not smooth, with obvious ridges where the squeegee/roller went over. I don't know if this is a consequence of using polyaspartic and applying a metallic pattern, but I assume this isn't a good result.



Oh, and those stem wall drips? It seems like they were just painted over and there's a noticeable bump there now. At least it's consistent around the foundation?



I'm not sure how to proceed here. I haven't paid yet so I can still request things be fixed. I can accept the look if the installation was good, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.

 

[mogandave]

That looks pretty rough.

I would not pay until he makes it right.

Don't let him punk you. Did he show you pictures of how it was going to look when it was done? Tell him you expect your floor to look like the pictures he showed you.

And do not agree to pay him any more to make it right.

 

[Armorpoxy]

No way is this acceptable. It shouldn't look like that.

 

[buhhy]

Should I expect the polyaspartic coat to be level and smooth here? I know some orange peel is expected, but I'm definitely not expecting roller marks.

Should I ask for him to grind the top layer flat and add another coat? Clearly putting on more and more top coats isn't working here.

 

[dcg9381]

I would not pay until he makes it right.

Don't let him punk you. Did he show you pictures of how it was going to look when it was done? Tell him you expect your floor to look like the pictures he showed you.

This is going to be hard to "make right" - certainly a lot more work than it would have been to do it right the first time. We've got waves of material in there now, only way I'd know to fix it is to grind it down to a consistent level. Dollars to donuts this contractor walks away from this before he makes it right.

Is this a contractor that deploys labor? IE has employees? Because this looks like someone's first time doing it.

The good news is even if it doesn't look perfect, it's going to do what you need to protect the floor. I just wouldn't be willing to pay commercial level prices for a job that's not commercial quality.

 

[buhhy]

No, it was just the one guy. This is what I asked for in the beginning:


The first epoxy coat did achieve this and I thought it looked pretty good as long minus the debris and other stuff. His excuse was that I didn't have a garage door and the storm was blowing debris in. I had asked about both the storm and the lack-of-door before and he said no problems. I even suggested installing the tarp, which he did, but loosely with a large gap at the top. I commented on it and he said it's to ventilate.

Am I crazy to think that he should know better about the lack of door and storm affecting the job?

 

[dcg9381]

Am I crazy to think that he should know better about the lack of door and storm affecting the job?

I think I don't do floors for a living, but I've done enough to know that a 15' opening is probably going to impact the finish. He should have mentioned that to you, probably charge you something for addressing it. If you said "no thanks" that's on you. But most of these mistakes are not from stuff that's blown in.

Did he provide you photos of his other work? Or have you seen any of his other jobs?

The finish you wanted - that's hard. I think that's a self-leveling finish and I don't think you can get that level of finish with a roller. I've only done one epoxy floor and it was self-leveling. I've done several polyurea (roll on) over stain - you can get texture in the finish if you're not careful about where you rolled last.

What was his charge per sqft?

 

[buhhy]

$9/sqft, no mention about the opening previously. I've seen pictures but honestly it's hard to tell defects from pictures.

 

[mogandave]

Sh*t blowing through the cracks did not do this:

Or this:

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

My .02
The floor looks thin or it cured quickly.
Roller marks should naturally fade away if the temp-cure and/or thickness is correct. Should be 50-70 sq ft per gal.

Almost every metallic floor I have completed (personally) needs to be buffed or lightly sanded between coats.
Small imperfections, tiny bubbles, etc... can all occur when you do these floors.

Once the clear is applied it should look pretty nice although a thin pap or urethane will look a little grainy because they are so thin.

This floor should be sanded and recoated to correct. Lastly, you can't coat verticals with metallic, it will droop down, it's metal and metal is heavy.

Good luck.

 

[buhhy]

He's agreed to a regrind and recoat with the pattern I originally wanted. I will make sure he sands the floor between the metallic coat and the top coat. Is this normally done with a floor sander? Concrete grinder sounds a little heavy for this task.

If I wanted to, can I just hit the floor with a hand held 6" random orbital sander on 120 grit? Obviously it would take a while, but the top coat should bring back the gloss without having to buff the sanded spots.

 

[mogandave]

He's agreed to a regrind and recoat with the pattern I originally wanted. I will make sure he sands the floor between the metallic coat and the top coat. Is this normally done with a floor sander? Concrete grinder sounds a little heavy for this task.

If I wanted to, can I just hit the floor with a hand held 6" random orbital sander on 120 grit? Obviously it would take a while, but the top coat should bring back the gloss without having to buff the sanded spots.

I would think 80 grit would be fine, but one of the floor guys would know better.

I would have him go up the wall an inch or so, and you can re-do the wall later with whatever color you like. That was not part of the original deal, correct?

 

[buhhy]

Do you mean to up the wall 1" with the metallic? The original deal was to coat the stem walls with epoxy, he will colour match the floor again.

 

[benwah]

At this point the entire floor, absolutely, 100%, without uncertainty, needs to be sanded before the next metallic coat. Re-coat window is closed at this point. Metallic should be done in epoxy, not polyaspartic. The poly doesn’t stay open long enough to self-level and has a higher viscosity typically compared to the epoxy. Like Legacy mentioned, 50-70 sqft/gallon.

Sand with 300 rpm 17” swing buffer. Use orbital for inside corners. I’d be using 60 grit for this sand, then 100 grit for the sand after laying down the metallic.

 

[benwah]

If you load up a handheld pump sprayer with denatured alcohol, you can lay an even mist over the floor once the metallic epoxy coat is applied and it will glass out the floor. An even mist is all that’s required and not complete saturation.

 

[mogandave]

If you load up a handheld pump sprayer with denatured alcohol, you can lay an even mist over the floor once the metallic epoxy coat is applied and it will glass out the floor. An even mist is all that’s required and not complete saturation.

I'll have to try this nest time I'm painting epoxy...

 

[buhhy]

If you load up a handheld pump sprayer with denatured alcohol, you can lay an even mist over the floor once the metallic epoxy coat is applied and it will glass out the floor. An even mist is all that’s required and not complete saturation.

Is there a difference between acetone and DNA in this usage? I can use any old spray bottle for this?

 

[buhhy]

Lol in true CA fashion, DNA is banned.

 

[Treeman]

If you load up a handheld pump sprayer with denatured alcohol, you can lay an even mist over the floor once the metallic epoxy coat is applied and it will glass out the floor. An even mist is all that’s required and not complete saturation.

Interesting. In model railroad scenery work we use isopropyl alchohol mist to break the surface tension of ballast adhesive, causing it to lay out.

 

[American Locomotive]

For what it's worth, pure grain alcohol is essentially the exact same thing as denatured alcohol. The "Denatured" part of Denatured Alcohol means they just added a little poison to ethanol so you can't drink it.

So if you can get some pure grain alcohol or even everclear at the liquor store, it'd probably work the same. Although I'm not sure how the 5% water in everclear would react.

 

[dcg9381]

If I wanted to, can I just hit the floor with a hand held 6" random orbital sander on 120 grit? Obviously it would take a while, but the top coat should bring back the gloss without having to buff the sanded spots.

Ask him if he's reground before or hit one of the vendors up for the process of smoothing existing epoxy. The concrete sanders I've used were quite a handful "dry". I'd assume epoxy would spoil the grinding surface pretty quickly. My "personal" go to would be a wet grind, but I'm not in this business.

 

[benwah]

It needs to be sanded, not ground. Like I mentioned , 17” 300 rpm swing buffer, 60 grit screens

 

[benwah]

Interesting. In model railroad scenery work we use isopropyl alchohol mist to break the surface tension of ballast adhesive, causing it to lay out.

IPA works too!

 

[benwah]

Is there a difference between acetone and DNA in this usage? I can use any old spray bottle for this?

I prefer DNA because it doesn’t decimate the plastic parts in the pump sprayer in 2 minutes like Acetone does.

 

[Imatk]

Yikes. Definitely wouldn't pay for that.

 

[buhhy]

I prefer DNA because it doesn’t decimate the plastic parts in the pump sprayer in 2 minutes like Acetone does.

Does 91% IPA cause blushing/white spots in the epoxy? I have IPA and acetone on hand, which is why I'm asking.

 

[benwah]

You may want to try a test spot before hand. Because with your resin, I don’t know.

 

[buhhy]

Final result - not perfect but much better than the first couple times. Turned out darker than originally expected so the stem walls don't match. I'm planning to just sand the walls and paint over it myself with a darker colour. Hopefully no problem with the adhesion.



Since I have a perfectionist streak, I'm tempted to sand down the top imperfections and apply a coat of PAP myself, though that might be more trouble that it's worth.

 

[P0234]

Looks much better. I wouldn't worry about perfection, if you are using it as a garage, it will always be less than perfect.

 

[mogandave]

Glad it turned out for you.