New rustoleum rock solid metallic put down. Air bubbles everywhere

[Hurley727]

I just put down Rock solid metallic rustoleum product last night. Wake up this morning to look at it and air bubbles EVERYWHERE. Pretty disappointed as I did extensive prep work and followed the instructions exact. Read that it comes from mixing but the directions mention nothing about this. Is there any hope on fixing this with either another coat or the top coat of clear? Can I touch up on thin spots that got rolled? How long until the clear can go on ? These are all questions Id like to as Rustoleum but there customer service is closed .

 

[Shea]

I just put down Rock solid metallic rustoleum product last night. Wake up this morning to look at it and air bubbles EVERYWHERE. Pretty disappointed as I did extensive prep work and followed the instructions exact. Read that it comes from mixing but the directions mention nothing about this. Is there any hope on fixing this with either another coat or the top coat of clear? Can I touch up on thin spots that got rolled? How long until the clear can go on ? These are all questions Id like to as Rustoleum but there customer service is closed .

If you whipped the epoxy pretty good when you added the metallic powder then that is a good indication of where the air bubble came from. It needs to be mixed in a steady and deliberate manner that will not introduce and trap air. Also, how long did you wait after doing the etch before applying the epoxy?

A clear coat will not fix the cosmetic issue of the floor. To fix it, you will need to wait a few days and then sand the surface with 100 grit sandpaper. The sanding will smooth out the surface and open up the pores to the bubbles. Vacuum well and then wipe the surface down with denatured alcohol. You can then apply a new coat of the metallic mix. This will help fill in the open bubbles and cover the encapsulated bubbles creating the finish you were looking for.

 

[Hurley727]

If you whipped the epoxy pretty good when you added the metallic powder then that is a good indication of where the air bubble came from. It needs to be mixed in a steady and deliberate manner that will not introduce and trap air. Also, how long did you wait after doing the etch before applying the epoxy?

A clear coat will not fix the cosmetic issue of the floor. To fix it, you will need to wait a few days and then sand the surface with 100 grit sandpaper. The sanding will smooth out the surface and open up the pores to the bubbles. Vacuum well and then wipe the surface down with denatured alcohol. You can then apply a new coat of the metallic mix. This will help fill in the open bubbles and cover the encapsulated bubbles creating the finish you were looking for.

Sand by hand or with a power sander? Will I need enough epoxy to do the whole floor again. Its a shame that Rustoleum doesn't mention a word about this issue. Seems like it could be very easy avoided. I mechanically etched the floor.

 

[Shea]

Sand by hand or with a power sander? Will I need enough epoxy to do the whole floor again. Its a shame that Rustoleum doesn't mention a word about this issue. Seems like it could be very easy avoided. I mechanically etched the floor.

You can use a pole sander or a floor buffer with an 80 grit sanding screen works great. A large orbital sander can work as well if you apply some pressure. Unless you are dealing with a very small area, you can't just touch up a metallic floor or most epoxy floors for that matter. The touched up areas are obvious. You will need to recoat the entire floor. We agree that Rust-Oleum could do a better job of explaining the proper mixing process.

When you say mechanically etched, do you mean you prepped the floor by grinding? Mechanical means usually refers to grinding, shot blasting, and etc.

Etching is usually done with muriatic acid, phosphoric acid, or citrus acids. I asked how long you waited to apply the coating if you performed an acid etch. You need to wait a minimum of 24 hours, preferably longer, to let all the moisture escape from the concrete. If you don't wait long enough, the moisture vapor escaping can get trapped in the epoxy as it cures causing a big problem with bubbles.

 

[Hurley727]

You can use a pole sander or a floor buffer with an 80 grit sanding screen works great. A large orbital sander can work as well if you apply some pressure. Unless you are dealing with a very small area, you can't just touch up a metallic floor or most epoxy floors for that matter. The touched up areas are obvious. You will need to recoat the entire floor. We agree that Rust-Oleum could do a better job of explaining the proper mixing process.

When you say mechanically etched, do you mean you prepped the floor by grinding? Mechanical means usually refers to grinding, shot blasting, and etc.

Etching is usually done with muriatic acid, phosphoric acid, or citrus acids. I asked how long you waited to apply the coating if you performed an acid etch. You need to wait a minimum of 24 hours, preferably longer, to let all the moisture escape from the concrete. If you don't wait long enough, the moisture vapor escaping can get trapped in the epoxy as it cures causing a big problem with bubbles.

I used a floor maintainer with the diamabrush prep tool. So my best bet is to go rent a floor buffer with a 80 grit pad and sand the whole floor followed by another 8 boxes of rock solid? Talk about a waste of money. I sure hope rustoleoum has some sort of compensation for this.

 

[Shea]

Hey,
a thought about bubbles caused from mixing.

Many of us(not me) have vacuum pumps.
How about
If you hooked a vacuum to the mixed epoxy for a couple of minutes, wouldn't it extract bubbles?
Just a thought. It takes very little vacuum to destroy bubbles.

I'm thinking even the intake from a good shop vac(if fumes aren't explosive) wpild drive out 90 percent of bubbles very easily.

Any detractors to this plan?

While this may work for paint, it's not very viable for epoxy for a number of reasons. The biggest being that many of the commercial quality epoxies need to be dumped out onto the floor immediately after mixing. If left to sit for more than a minute in a container, the exothermic curing process will cause the epoxy to heat up rapidly and shorten the pot life.

It may work for the much lower solids epoxy kits found at home improvement centers since there is an induction period where the epoxy sits before mixed again, but the work required to set up a vacuum to the epoxy is more of a hassle than just following the mixing instructions carefully.

The epoxy the OP used is actually mixed in a vacuum sealed burst pouch first, thus avoiding the bubble issue. The additional mixing in this particular case was to introduce the metallic additive into the epoxy and this may be where the bubbles where introduced.

 

[Shea]

I used a floor maintainer with the diamabrush prep tool. So my best bet is to go rent a floor buffer with a 80 grit pad and sand the whole floor followed by another 8 boxes of rock solid? Talk about a waste of money. I sure hope rustoleoum has some sort of compensation for this.

Yikes.... and most of the floor has bubbles? Yes, the floor maintainer will do a great job and make quick work of it.

I highly recommend giving Rust-Oleum Customer Service a call and explain your concerns. We have heard many stories from our readers where Rust-Oleum has worked with their customers to help fix problems. They've sent out new kits before at no charge, but I'm not sure they will send out 8. It's definitely worth giving them a call however.

 

[Hurley727]

Yikes.... and most of the floor has bubbles? Yes, the floor maintainer will do a great job and make quick work of it.

I highly recommend giving Rust-Oleum Customer Service a call and explain your concerns. We have heard many stories from our readers where Rust-Oleum has worked with their customers to help fix problems. They've sent out new kits before at no charge, but I'm not sure they will send out 8. It's definitely worth giving them a call however.

Rust-Oleum didn't have very good advice on how to prep and re apply. They just said sand with 60 grit and re apply. I asked what to do if more are bubbles pop up and they said they will dissipate. I am not going to trust this as thats what I thought the first time. What is the best method to get this done with proper results. Any special mixers? Any special temperature to set my ac unit? Ceiling Fan on or off? I want to take all precautions this go around (as I thought I did the first time).

 

[Shea]

Just mix it nice and steady without whipping it. When you roll it on, don't try to stretch it out or roll fast as that can introduce air with this product. The roller needs to stay saturated. Make sure the humidity is less than 75% and that it's not applied in direct sun.

A lot of people have applied this product successfully, including some here on the GJ. Just have a game plan and pay attention to the details and you should come out just fine. We did an article on this coating a while back and highlighted a floor that was done by a mother and daughter team. It came out real nice. You can see the video of their experience near the bottom of the article here.

 

[Hurley727]

Started to process of sanding the bubbles out and so far no real success. I rented a floor belt sanding machine and it really isn't aggressive enough to get this bubbles an pits out. The pits go all the way to the bear concrete. Anyone have any suggestions? I NEED MY GARAGE BACK! lol

 

[Hurley727]

Returned the belt sander and got a floor maintainer with a 60 grit sanding disk and it takes the top layer or the bubble up but doesn't get the crater level. is there something I should use to fill the craters? I read somewhere about using a glazing compound ? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Rustoleulm sent me 8 replacement boxes to compensate for the bubbles but did not have a very good solution for fixing the problem. Just a simple sand down with 60 grit and re apply. Even told me that if bubbles appear to just leave them.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Your help should come from Rustoleum as this is their product.

However, my suggestion would be to sand/grind as you are doing. Wipe the floor clean of all the dust.

Then mix up a batch of 100% solids epoxy, drag it over these craters using a flat rubber squeegee.

Allow to cure then proceed with the project.


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[Dick in Wisconsin]

Just mix it nice and steady without whipping it. When you roll it on, don't try to stretch it out or roll fast as that can introduce air with this product. The roller needs to stay saturated. Make sure the humidity is less than 75% and that it's not applied in direct sun.

underline added for emphasis.

This is probably very good advice for applying any shop/garage floor coating. I think this is where a first timer DIYer could easily mess themselves up.

 

[Hurley727]

This is pics after sanding with a floor maintainer and 60 grit disc. Still left with large craters. Going to give rustoleum and call in the morning. Where would you by a 100% epoxy to fill these craters?

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Sweet Melissa! Those are monsters.
May want to pre-fill those with a patch or filler before coating again.

The epoxy I was referring to was our SD Epoxy. Very thick but those are serious craters and are beyond filling with a coating.

That is not from introduced air or direct sunlight. You must have major pinholes in that floor.

 

[8mpg]

So FYI I went through this same thing but I didn't get any replacement. Rustoleum doesn't want you to mechanically grind/etch the floors. I think they don't want you to because of stuff like this and you use way more material. I used 4 boxes on a 2 car garage and had the same bubbles. I believe its from outgassing of the ground concrete. This stuff if thick and causes the bubbles not to pop as well. This stuff seems way thicker than other epoxies I have seen applied on youtube.

When I put down my second coat, Id dump the stuff on the ground and use a 10" putty knife to spread it out really quick and then went back and rolled it. If you have the 8 boxes, you could try and return those with your old receipt and use another system. After my 2nd coat, I was happy enough though there was still dimpling from the previous craters.
Anyways, those pits are not going to go away. If you really want them gone, you will need to continue to sand. If you can live with it, the next coat you put down shouldn't have any bubbles because the concrete is already coated.

my thread about my bubles: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=328110&highlight=rustoleum

 

[1949 caddyman]

Would a primer have helped with the bubbles?

 

[Hurley727]

Talked with rustoleum this morning and at this point there just sending me a FedEx slip for a return . I lost all respect for them when the recommended filling in the craters with black paint ..... So unless I can find a solution I will be returning and going with a different product after grinding this stuff up .

 

[Shea]

Sweet Melissa! Those are monsters.
May want to pre-fill those with a patch or filler before coating again.

The epoxy I was referring to was our SD Epoxy. Very thick but those are serious craters and are beyond filling with a coating.

That is not from introduced air or direct sunlight. You must have major pinholes in that floor.

Wow, you are not kidding! I just came back to this thread. This wasn't a mixing issue for sure.

 

[Garage Flooring]

I am sorry to hear about your frustrations and the project not going as well as expected. I had a look at the instructions they post http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pdfImages/24/24526326-a562-4c82-9255-95dafe9e6fb2.pdf and I can certainly understand your frustration.

When we sell our metallic floor epoxy systems we tried to assemble a more complete kit based on what we have seen.

We can't include repair materials (in the basic kit), because we have no idea how bad someones floor is and what all needs to be repaired. Prep is always important but with metallic systems, repairing and prepping the floor is key.

We do include a black primer, because a prime coat with metallic systems is essential. The black in particular really highlights the metallic features. After the floor is primed, we include a high build epoxy and pigments. The higher build epoxy does a nice(er) job of hiding flaws in the surface below.

One the floor is primed and coated, we include a great clear coat with an anti wear / anti skid built in.

So why am I talking about all the stuff 'we' include? Because the bottom line, for a good metallic system, you have to do it that way. On some older floors we end up using two primer coats.

So as you go back and try and improve this floor, I would highly suggest a multi-part, high build system as it is going to give you the results you want. The best bet may just be to grind the floor down and start fresh.

 

[Hurley727]

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On the fence about what to do. Rustoleum is willing to give me a refund. Here is a pick for reference of the size bubbles.

 

[Hurley727]

Just curious if anyone has any input. If I were to sand the floor back down.... Would you recommend re applying with some type of primer to stop outgassing or use a different product all together. I can go any direction since I have a refund slip. Ideally I would love to just fix what I have and move on from my floor but its a hard call. Part of me wants to try re applying one box on top of whats there and see how it looks.

 

[Garage Flooring]

Just curious if anyone has any input. If I were to sand the floor back down.... Would you recommend re applying with some type of primer to stop outgassing or use a different product all together. I can go any direction since I have a refund slip. Ideally I would love to just fix what I have and move on from my floor but its a hard call. Part of me wants to try re applying one box on top of whats there and see how it looks.

Both

 

[Hurley727]

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What do you all think of filling in the craters with this product? or using the syringe to fill craters with epoxy? (not sure if rock solid will flow in and out of syringe)

 

[vroach1951]

I would think that you should scuff the dents and fill them with your rock solid, allow the repairs to cure then sand them flat. Clean the floor and reapply another coat to your garage. Best way would probably be to grind it off and start fresh.

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